Why do you equate human existence with suffering? There's suffering in life, of course. But there's happiness, fun, and fulfillment as well. If you had the choice, would you want to never have been born?

I'm not equating human existence with suffering. I'm making a concession that suffering exists and is prevalent as a real thing that happens to most sentient living creatures on this planet, and that it is a problem that none of you people seem to want to address.

Happiness, fun, fulfillment, these things fail to balance the equation. Think of the most pleasurable experience you can and put the level of pleasure you've experienced on a number line. Say it's at 100. Now think of the worst possible scenario you can be in. For me, and I think anyone who's honest with themselves, that number is not -100. The number is more along the lines of -1000, or -10,000. We have a vastly disproportionate value system on this rock. As challengerX pointed out, it doesn't matter if you live in the first world--you will experience some level of suffering.

It's not a matter of how little you suffer--I'm saying even there's one organism on this planet who stubs his toe, I'm saying that is also a travesty that should also dealt with. The fact is, he didn't ask for that stubbed toe, and he didn't ask to be in a world where his toe could get stubbed. And getting his to stubbed implies that much worse things could happen to him, but there can be no better thing that happens to him than, say, being in love with someone. Which some would argue is actually a negative thing.

You're all thinking mostly in the physical realm of suffering, too. Which is good, I applaud that. Usually, by now, I have a bunch of people trying to tell me that I need to stop insulting people because I make people suffer, as if me calling someone a cunt on the Internet is gonna do anyone equitable harm to someone getting their fucking jaw broken. But it is important to look at stuff like the fiscal irresponsibility of the parents. If you're bad with money, if you gamble (having kids is certainly a form of gambling--with someone's welfare. The worst kind) your money, you'd make an awful parent. If you drink frequently, you'd make an awful parent.

If your kid isn't a perfect paragon of virtue when he grows up, you're a terrible parent. The only way to justify imposing anything on anyone is if the result ends up being perfect. If I steal money from you, all of your money, and spend it all on lottery tickets in an attempt at getting you a profit, and I lose every single time, how would you feel? No, you'd only be in the right if you KNEW that you were gonna win a million dollars and then you have to give back the money in private. That would be perfect, that would be selfless. No one would do that. Just like you can't raise a kid perfectly. So it's stupid to try.

"I'm gonna be a good parent"--Meaningless rhetoric. "I'm gonna win you a million dollars."
Wow, that would be really nice, wouldn't it. Sounds good when you type it.

But I don't fucking trust you.

Now... if I had the choice to never have been born, would I take it?...
Let me tell you a story...

I took a trip to Europe last year. It was an educationally-rooted sort of ambassadorial program for students. I visited Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and France. And Vatican City, if you count that. I was to spend a mere three days in Germany, but part of it was that I had to stay at a random stranger's house in some small rural municipality. I was very scared, naturally, because I had no knowledge of the people I'd be living with. I didn't know if they were drunkards or murderers--they wouldn't be any of these things, it was just my paranoid state thinking all this. The point is, I was scared.

I ended up meeting this... absolutely wonderful family. A sweet old woman and her husband, who can't speak English very well, and their daughter, whom I met last? One of the most beautiful and understanding and fun people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. She taught me so much, not only about her state in Germany, but also about myself. I thought I was in love, if only I believed in that sort of thing. It had been a genuine experience, not one contrived like the times I saw the Colosseum in Rome and the Eiffel Tower in Paris. They paled in comparison to how I felt when I saw this girl for the first time, and all the stuff we did together. Having to say goodbye was one of the most difficult things to deal with in my life.

That said, let me reiterate your question. Do I wish I was never born?

I wish I was born in a world where moments like that are not only commonplace, but constant. Somewhere so peaceful and sublime, nothing could possibly get hurt, nothing could possibly be sad or angry.

This is not the world I was born in.

Boring old hetero.

Sex is philosophically useless to me, but not... carnally.
I still have a libido. It's an irritant.

Does anyone have an RC5908? I'm not sure if I have anything worthy of trade, but...

(Requesting lock; this is fucking stupid.)

Quote from: Verbatim on September 12, 2014, 01:02:10 AM

I'm not reading that.

Lazy.

The guy hasn't said one useful thing yet.

It's not laziness as much as it's me not wanting to waste my time.

I'm not reading that.

I'd honestly go out of my way to act even more like a dick afterwards.

gee thanks if only I was stupid enough to ever imbibe any alcohol bevarages

Posted by: Solonoid

You're a fucking character.

You just told someone to kill themselves by alcohol consumption, and I'm not allowed the same?

What is a joke?

Not so. Death is an end. But it's not THE end. Look at everything around you. The universe has proven time and again, that everything is a cycle. I don't believe the consciousness that is housed in our bodies is ever truly lost. Death is a physical end. But are we truly lost?

...Yes. You have no evidence. Just speculative mumbo-jumbo crap. No sale.

You "sort bit of fuck twirled in your head" is showing. That didn't pertain too much to what I said.

I'm saying if I killed myself, right fucking now, I wouldn't be satisfied at all with what I've done and what I failed to finish doing.

You have no idea how alcohol works.

I don't care how alcohol fucking works, do I?

No, I don't.

It was a snarky, hateful thing to say, so I said it.
I don't like your Charlie friend or his drunken habits. Deal with it.

I'm sleep-posting at the moment, so I'll just leave my question and return to this thread when I get back home on saturday <.<

I always find it interesting because the basic concept is so alien, but that aside - What brought you to this stance? A detailed path would be appreciated, I obviously won't be able to read it right away but I'll be looking forwards to reading it as soon as possible >.>

How did you end up as an Anti-Natalist?

If you want all the details, that'll have to wait. I don't care to type anything grotesquely long at the moment. Sorry.

Kilt Lifter, you say? That's 6%.

So... by a general calculation... 'cause I don't know your weight....

You should drink twenty-four more.
Give or take.

Basically yeah.

Best.