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Messages - πΊπππππ
πͺππππ
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12601
« on: April 22, 2016, 06:11:54 AM »
just make one regardless of its success it will be fun
12602
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:38:28 AM »
The flu vaccine is hardly a broad societal concern, it's more or less there for convenience, and far from necessary. I'm not talking about flu vaccines. I don't know if I ever got one myself. I figured this was about actually important vaccinations for things like polio, pox, hep A/B and such.
The reason we give newborns circumcisions is that they're even worse to perform on an adult. Which is completely irrelevant. You would have a point if we HAD to be circumcised at one point in our life, or even if a large portion of men would later be forced to be circumcised or face a lot worse. This absolutely isn't the case, as perfectly illustrated by extremely low circumcision rates at later ages in pretty much the entirety of the developed world outside of the US, and by the lack of higher UTI / penile cancer / HIV rates in those countries compared to the US. I'd agree you with if there was any reason at all to assume men HAVE to be circumcised at one point in their lives or if there even existed compelling evidence to suggest a large portion of them would have to be. In that case, it would be better to perform it on infants. But that isn't so. And as I'm sure almost every logical and reasonable person would agree with, the choice between A: excruciating pain as an infant and B: excruciating pain never is an easy one.
Circumcisions and tattoos aren't nearly the same, one actually serves a puroose beyond looks. Uncircumsized penises are far easier to get dirty and infected, tattoos have no purpose whatsoever. Terrible analogy.
That is factually incorrect. The dirtier part is a non-issue given access to clean running water (which I assume we all do) and the "far easier to get infected" part is rejected by most of the medical community, with numerous studies actually finding that circumcisions increase the odds of those complications occuring during infancy. So no, it doesn't serve a purpose.
But even if I humor your argument, it still falls short. Say you're right and it is dirtier and easier to get infected. This would justify cutting it off, right? Well, why don't we cut off some other parts too? Plenty of body parts we don't need and that pose significant risks. I mean, why not cut off earlobes or a few unimportant toes? They can get dirty, they can get cut, they can infect. You can break the bones in your toe and there's a myriad of possible things that could go wrong with it. Plus, it really doesn't serve that much of a purpose anyways. Why not just cut it off? Why not open the baby up and take out the appendix while we're at it. Or your teeth. Sure, it's a bit of an inconvenience not being able to eat solid foods anymore, but so what? Plenty of shakes and liquid meals out there. And just imagine all the benefits! No more having to brush your teeth twice a day, just think of all the time you'd save! No more painful visits to the dentist, no more money wasted on toothbrushes and tooth paste. It's definitely cleaner because, well, there's nothing to keep clean and the chance of tooth pain and possible afflictions has been reduced to zero because you don't have teeth anymore! Pull them all, I say!
Every single argument in favor of circumcision I've ever heard falls short by a mile. It is a barbaric practice, a major violation of bodily integrity and genital mutilation. The supposed benefits are so small and so heavily contested in medicine that they're pretty much negligible, while the risks, complications and downsides are very real and well documented. And even if there were some small benefits to it, they'd be so tiny that they wouldn't justify the procedure, as supported by pretty much every single national medical health organization in the entire developed world. We don't know everything yet and it's definitely true that some aspects of circumcision are still unclear and debated, but the more we know and the more is discovered, the fewer things actually seem good about the procedure. The only reason anyone should refrain from supporting a complete ban is that it would drive the surgery underground where it would be done in clandestine and less than desirable circumstances instead of by medical professionals in a hospital. But aside from that, I really can't see how anyone who is usually so concerned with the morality of things as you are can argue against this procedure. I could write an entire post about how the actual reason people still support it is rooted in self preservation, but I don't think that would do anyone any good.
I guess I'm a bit biased, you make plenty of good points. On principle, I would be against it, as its an unnecessary modification, but I'm personally glad I never had to worry about getting it done later in life. I honestly didn't even know about circumcision until I was 14, and I guess it's always baffled me in a way at how intensely angry people get about it. I can see the reasoning for sure, and I'm actually probably on your side with this in general, I just hate how people pick and choose what issues of consent matters. If the human citizen has the right to decide what happens to their own body, then that's a constant maxim. It doesn't make a difference whether it's about refusing to ever get circumcized or choosing to do drugs.
12603
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:31:32 AM »
Mentally harm the infant? What the hell? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage
We've already established that regardless of the supposed brutality There's nothing "supposed" about the brutality. I'd link what exactly happens but it's honestly one of the few things I can't stomach. You know, because I was brought up being taught that torturing babies is wrong.
of the process, the infant remembers nothing. So like Flee said, we can do all sorts of disgusting and unnecessary shit because the infant won't remember it?
Physically "harm" is debatable. No, it isn't. Babies pass out from the pain.
There's no long term effects over circumcision, effects that would definitely be prominent if the infant is really being tortured. Yeah there are. This is basic shit. Do a google search.
You're making it sound like the doctor goes down there with a carrot peeler. It's much more surgical than that. LOL It really isn't as "surgical" as you think. I love how you're using all these words to mask genital mutilation.
And you have to be kidding. The flu vaccine has killed more people than it's saved, its completely unneccesary for children and adults alike. HAHAHAHA ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE
I'm not changing the subject, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. Most people who make a big deal over circumcision turn a blind eye to other more blatant and important consent-violating norms.
No they don't. And neither do I.
Excuse me if I find genital torture on INFANTS a priority. This is the type of shit we condemn in 3rd world countries but since it's a Jewish thing it's ok. Fucking hypocrites.
I just hate hypocrisy. I doubt I'd actually support routine circumcision in a void, but people like you always make me irritated. How infant consent doesn't matter in the slightest until the all-precious dick gets involved. We can pump our kids full of chemicals and toxins before they're hardly out of the womb (YES, the flu vaccine is completely unnecessary at best) but everyone loses their minds if you try to remove the foreskin at the easiest time in life to remove it.
12604
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:12:21 AM »
Mentally harm the infant? What the hell? We've already established that regardless of the supposed brutality of the process, the infant remembers nothing. Physically "harm" is debatable. There's no long term effects over circumcision, effects that would definitely be prominent if the infant is really being tortured. You're making it sound like the doctor goes down there with a carrot peeler. It's much more surgical than that.
And you have to be kidding. The flu vaccine has killed more people than it's saved, its completely unneccesary for children and adults alike.
I'm not changing the subject, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy. Most people who make a big deal over circumcision turn a blind eye to other more blatant and important consent-violating norms.
12605
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:04:19 AM »
When a rat knows death is imminent, they desperately look for any hole they can fit into.
When someone gets accused of something they didn't do, they refute it.
LOL Sure you didn't.
What I said is exactly what you're doing. You know you're wrong, so instead of addressing the actual issue, you're going to argue the only you can argue, that you haven't "insulted" anyone.
Stay on topic. You and Verbatim for pretending to be so moral, abandon all these ideals and say atrocious things like "they won't remember the pain".
You said I insulted someone
I didn't
you lied
simple as that
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Yeah, I'm not doing this with you. I was referring to Verbatim when I said insults and to both of you about how you guys just dropped any morals you pretended to have because you're insecure about dicks.
Why are you for torturing infants?
"Torturing" Yeah, right. This is far from an issue I care a lot about, I just find it awful how defensive uncut guys get about "muh consent" when talking about dicks, yet there's people serving decades in prison for willingly putting chemicals into their own bodies. Not to mention all the other unneccesary, consent-violating procedures that are imposed on infants, which are also just ignored by people like you. You can't have it both ways.
12606
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:00:14 AM »
I guess we should stop vaccinating our kids until they're old enough to make an informed decision about it. Terrible analogy to make an even more terrible point. One is a routine prick of a needle for major public health issues that'll stop the child from potentially contracting and spreading serious diseases. It's a tiny sting that leaves no lasting pain, has virtually no possible complications and has benefits that drastically outweigh the downsides. The other is an almost entirely cosmetic and invasive surgery. It is by definition genital mutilation and is an extremely painful, brutal and unnecessary procedure with little to no benefits and a whole lot of possible downsides and complications. Not a single official medical health organization in the world thinks it should be done routinely and all but one (heavily biased and contested) aside, they unanimously claim that the benefits do not even come close to outweighing the cons.
I love how now one gives a shit about consent and the right to your own body until this one issue comes up.
That is because this is almost no different from tattooing your child. The issue of consent does not come up with most medical procedures because there is good reason to not listen to what the child has to say, as the benefits drastically outweigh the downsides or the procedure is simply necessary to treat the chlid. But here, you're subjecting an infant to an extremely painful, unnecessary and irreversible procedure for almost entirely cosmetic or religious reasons. Calling it child abuse is rather strong, but there's a point to it.
The flu vaccine is hardly a broad societal concern, it's more or less there for convenience, and far from necessary. The reason we give newborns circumcisions is that they're even worse to perform on an adult. Circumcisions and tattoos aren't nearly the same, one actually serves a puroose beyond looks. Uncircumsized penises are far easier to get dirty and infected, tattoos have no purpose whatsoever. Terrible analogy.
12607
« on: April 22, 2016, 04:56:40 AM »
When a rat knows death is imminent, they desperately look for any hole they can fit into.
When someone gets accused of something they didn't do, they refute it.
LOL Sure you didn't.
What I said is exactly what you're doing. You know you're wrong, so instead of addressing the actual issue, you're going to argue the only you can argue, that you haven't "insulted" anyone.
Stay on topic. You and Verbatim for pretending to be so moral, abandon all these ideals and say atrocious things like "they won't remember the pain".
You said I insulted someone I didn't you lied simple as that
12608
« on: April 22, 2016, 04:37:01 AM »
When a rat knows death is imminent, they desperately look for any hole they can fit into.
When someone gets accused of something they didn't do, they refute it.
12609
« on: April 22, 2016, 04:35:56 AM »
Holy shit, what the fuck? Literally an emotion based trial. You don't go after the knife manufacturer after a serial killer gets caught. Gun manufacturers should have absolutely zero legal liability.
Again, they're not suing the gun manufacturer just because the tool he made was used to commit a crime. They're claiming that the specific way the gun is designed, made and especially marketed made it particularly appealing for the shooter to commit the crimes he wanted. For your example of the knife manufacturer it would mean that they're going after him not just because his knife was used by a serial killer, but it because it had features that would make it especially attractive for one (anti-fingerprint coating, hardened tip so it wouldn't break if it hit bone, easy to get human blood out of it..) and that it was marketed specifically at people with violent tendencies.
Oh, that makes sense. My mistake.
12610
« on: April 22, 2016, 04:34:46 AM »
I'd join, not like I'd leave Sep7 because of it, though. I need some more forums to browse.
12611
« on: April 22, 2016, 04:33:31 AM »
Jesus
It's insane how people like Verbatim and Second do a complete 180 on their views and resort to meme tier retorts and schoolyard insults. You guys are REALLY insecure about your dicks lol.
I haven't insulted a single person in this thread.
12612
« on: April 22, 2016, 03:09:46 AM »
Why do we ban all the drama causing members?
Drama = activity
12613
« on: April 22, 2016, 02:20:13 AM »
I guess we should stop vaccinating our kids until they're old enough to make an informed decision about it.
And yes, some vaccinations are completely unnecessary and can be held off until the kid is an adult.
I love how now one gives a shit about consent and the right to your own body until this one issue comes up.
You have a right to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't affect anyone. Vaccinations are a matter of public health and disease control. Circumcision is a medically unnecessary and gruesome procedure that inflicts excruciating pain on an infant. When what you're doing affects other people it becomes an issue.
First of all, the flu vaccine is 100% unneccesary and shouldnt be taken by anyone. Secondly, there's no better time in a person's life to be circumsized than right after birth. It's unneccesary, but objectively better than not getting the procedure. The same can't be said for mandatory flu shots.
I'm sorry what? Nothing you said in this post is remotely true.
The flu vaccine is 100% unnecessary. I haven't gotten it in years.
12614
« on: April 22, 2016, 01:45:15 AM »
F
12615
« on: April 22, 2016, 01:44:21 AM »
Convicting an innocent person does not generate negative infinity utility does anyone actually think that or are they just cool with rolling with hyperbolic statements to show support for an underlying sentiment
Morality > utility
what are you even trying to say
do you just like sticking with the vaguer phrasing of a position to try to make it less obvious that it's ridiculous
like I'm going to give people the benefit of the doubt and say I don't think they really believe that, and therefore there is in reality always a tradeoff
You didn't even bring up the ethical consequences of ruining an innocent person's life, just the utility of it. Utility doesn't matter here.
12616
« on: April 22, 2016, 01:42:29 AM »
I guess we should stop vaccinating our kids until they're old enough to make an informed decision about it.
And yes, some vaccinations are completely unnecessary and can be held off until the kid is an adult.
I love how now one gives a shit about consent and the right to your own body until this one issue comes up.
You have a right to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't affect anyone. Vaccinations are a matter of public health and disease control. Circumcision is a medically unnecessary and gruesome procedure that inflicts excruciating pain on an infant. When what you're doing affects other people it becomes an issue.
First of all, the flu vaccine is 100% unneccesary and shouldnt be taken by anyone. Secondly, there's no better time in a person's life to be circumsized than right after birth. It's unneccesary, but objectively better than not getting the procedure. The same can't be said for mandatory flu shots.
12617
« on: April 22, 2016, 12:37:21 AM »
Convicting an innocent person does not generate negative infinity utility does anyone actually think that or are they just cool with rolling with hyperbolic statements to show support for an underlying sentiment
Morality > utility
12618
« on: April 21, 2016, 09:11:37 PM »
Clearly girls
12619
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:28:10 PM »
Holy shit, what the fuck? Literally an emotion based trial. You don't go after the knife manufacturer after a serial killer gets caught. Gun manufacturers should have absolutely zero legal liability.
12620
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:25:57 PM »
I tap into the BLM movement
12621
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:25:17 PM »
>my penis is cleaner than yours
>my penis is less likely to get an infection than yours
All of the other points aside, these things are simply untrue or very heavily contested.
Honestly, you actually sound a bit butthurt here, which I find very surprising. These people are already born and are being born every few seconds, that's a reality. So if we for one second ignore your "but no consent to birth, anti-natalism go" argument (that really isn't too relevant here in the first place), I really don't see how you can be opposed to this. The ultimate point of your philosophy which I've seen time and time again is that "suffering is bad, avoiding suffering is good". Well, an infant comes into existence. It's there. Nothing to do about that, you can't shove it back and hope it just goes away at this point. That is the reality of things and no matter how loud someone screams ANTINATALISM, that isn't going to change.
From my perspective, the only logical step forward in your philosophy would be to minimize pain and suffering for the existing situation. Make things as close to perfection as possible for all living things while advocating others not to conceive more people. So in what possible way could you justify taking this baby, strapping it to a table, crushing and stretching one of its most sensitive body parts to beyond its breaking point and then cutting it off for absolutely no real reason whatsoever? Studies on his have shown that circumcision is the single most painful neo-natal procedure that is done on infants. It impairs maternal bonding, it has been known to literally make the baby turn blue because it's running out of oxygen due to how hard it's crying and there are even reports of infants falling in catatonic shock because they simply can't handle the pain. It has a myriad of possible side effects and complications that can occur both during the procedure and within the months afterwards.
So tell me, how is this justifiable? If for one second you actually acknowledge the reality that babies are being born right this very second and will continue doing so, even though antinatalism is, according to you, the best philosophy and that "lol lack of consent with something like this is meaningless compared to the lack of consent to life" does not change anything about this fact. How can you, the single most driven and spirited proponent of "suffering is intrinsically bad and should be avoided at all costs" I've ever met, sit here and shrug this off because of anecdotal bullshit like "hey it happened to me but I'm fine now"? This is an extremely invasive and painful procedure. It is, by definition, genital mutilation. Not a single national medical organization in the world suggests it to be done routinely and literally all but one of them say that the benefits most definitely do NOT outweigh the risks and downsides. This isn't a vaccination, where you give a child a tiny prick of pain to prevent much worse, nor is it a necessary procedure to address genuine and serious medical concerns. It is an entirely cosmetic, painful and very often harmful procedure on non-consenting humans.
I'm not an expert on antinatalism, but from what I've come to understand its primary argument is that life is suffering, suffering is bad and that suffering should as such be avoided. It's why you're a vegan too, as to not make living creatures suffer any more than they have to. I may be wrong here, but seems to me like it's pretty solid so far. Yet, despite all of this, you're so willing to not condemn a painful and useless procedure that inflicts a tremendous amount of pain on living and born human beings. And I'm not even wondering why you're not here to "rally for the cause" or even care a lot about this issue. Those things take time and effort, and there's so much shit going on that I understand this doesn't even come close to being a priority. But for you to not even condemn it? For you to simply mock those who do care about the painful genital mutilation of newborns and dismiss valid concerns because "le wormdicks mad cuz my peen is the best" and other salty and generally wrong reasons? That I really don't understand. Sure, it's relatively minor and sure, it pales in comparison to the lack of consent to being born. But regardless of that, it does cause a shit ton of pain, problems, complications and suffering for literally tens of thousands of infants and people through life. So how can you not even think it shouldn't take place as a way to reduce the amount of suffering in the world?
Really, the only conclusion I can make here based on what I've said above and the pretty salty nature of your post is that you are, to some extent, actually butthurt over this. Not that I suspect you'd even admit it if it was the case, but I really don't see any other explanation for your hostile and salty post deflecting the whole point. And you really shouldn't be. No one's calling you out or trying to say you're beneath others. You don't have to defend yourself by trying to make others feel bad.
It's almost like infants can't remember anything that happens shortly after birth uncircumsized dicks are even more disgusting than circumsized ones
12622
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:22:30 PM »
I guess we should stop vaccinating our kids until they're old enough to make an informed decision about it.
And yes, some vaccinations are completely unnecessary and can be held off until the kid is an adult.
I love how now one gives a shit about consent and the right to your own body until this one issue comes up.
12623
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:15:52 PM »
I say the Enclave when it still had the oil rig was the best faction rebuilding wise. Not only did they have the best tech but they were able to create new tech like power armor which is something the NCR and Brotherhood can't do. The Brotherhood is relying on what they find unlike the Enclave which created several suits of it.
When it comes to the wasteland I will say what they wanted to do in Fallout 2 made sense. If they released the FEV then rebuilding the wasteland would have been easier and far less dangerous. Yes a lot of innocent people would have died, but the FEV would have gotten rid of the super mutants, ghouls(which are a waste of resources) and all of the raider groups and anything like them. Creating settlements or maintaining them would be far easier without the risk of a super mutant attack or by one of the many raider groups near the area.
Ghouls, Super Mutants, and FEV is part of life now. Everyone is affected by radiation in some way, even wastelanders that look perfectly fine. The Enclave wanted to wipe out 95% of life, all the people who were even slightly irradiated, so they could step in and rebuild America in their eyes. That was even their plan before the bombs fell. They didn't anticipate FEV, but they had no intention of letting anyone but pure genes live. They were quite literally genocidal maniacs, and pretty much represent the dark side of the Brotherhood of Steel. What happens when you start narrowing and narrowing the definition of "human".
12624
« on: April 21, 2016, 07:34:13 PM »
A post on the internet sums up why the NCR is really the best Fallout faction (except for perhaps the Brotherhood): Compared to everything else out there the NCR are damn near a utopia. They are democratic, actually democratic compared to pre-War USA, egalitarian with equal rights for women, ghouls and even some super mutants, appears to have rebuilt the majority of California to 19th-century standards by the time of New Vegas and from the looks of it are too big to destroy.
Now, I know what y'all are gonna say: They are expansionist, stretching their resources too thin, highly tax their citizenry and throw soldiers at the enemy like they're orcs. So let met ask this: Got a better idea? The New California Republic apparently want to restore the former United States to its old glory, and the way I see it this is the only reasonable way to do so. In order to gain more resources for reconstruction you have to expand, in order to expand you need a powerful military and in order to have a powerful military you need high taxes. If the NCR citizens don't like the taxes they can just join the army or leave. If they would suddenly abandon these goals their resources would run out back home, leaving infrastructure cracked and charred for the foreseeable future, and would also allow their enemies to muster on the other side of the Colorado - which brings me to my second point:
The NCR has to expand fast or else risk the Legion growing stronger. Get this: If the NCR hadn't started expanding to New Vegas, the Legion would've arrived, conquered Hoover Dam and Vegas and would be nigh-unstoppable once they reach New Cali. It was by luck that the NCR managed to halt Caesar's conquests when they got there, which eventually resulted in House reigniting his master plan.
So my points are: The NCR wants what's best for the world, and the best requires making a few sacrifices - non-lethal ones, mind you. If I were living in New Vegas and had to choose between an evil, slave-running totalitarian empire, a technocratic, plutocratic dictator or an egalitarian democracy with some corruption and expansionist issues, I wouldn't hesitate a second: NCR all the way. Your thoughts?
12625
« on: April 21, 2016, 07:18:57 PM »
we need a cruel new young queen to lead England into international relevance again
12626
« on: April 21, 2016, 07:15:09 PM »
Why do people think it would be the end of the world if any one member became a ninja? Verb could go out of his way to abuse his power as a mod and this site would be fine at the end of the day.
That in mind, he's obviously the biggest prude and annoyingly ceaseless stickler for rules on this site. He'd be a decent mod at worst.
12627
« on: April 21, 2016, 07:10:49 PM »
Why did this become a would verb be a good mod thread to answer that, you just have to see where you ended up on this thread Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler though I've probably changed my opinion from the one in that thread
12628
« on: April 21, 2016, 06:07:13 PM »
He doesn't have a strong identity of his own, so he likes to attach to more well known people.
Rood.
Just because I don't devote my time into becoming a meme on this forum doesn't make me a gimmick loving attention whore.
Well, I like some gimmicks but not an attention whore.
Embrace your inner attention whore, verb
12629
« on: April 21, 2016, 05:34:43 PM »
If it's about principles it makes more sense, I can understand that.
But I still don't get why it is about that for you. I think it's pretty dumb for Pip to do this, I hate forum gimmicks. He doesn't have a strong identity of his own, so he likes to attach to more well known people.
I can see how that would be kind of annoying, but not how that would cause such a visceral reaction in you.
12630
« on: April 21, 2016, 05:12:38 PM »
It's not impersonation. good thing i specifically used the word "borderline" then
he didn't change his name to "Verbatim" it's close enough to where a cursory glance could easily trick someone
I used to mix up Dietrich and Big Boss when they both had Mac avatars, but that doesn't mean the blame for that is on anyone but me. The fact you're so upset over someone else potentially getting credit for your truly life-changing posts is petty. And if someone has that misconception, it's literally the easiest thing in the world to clear up.
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