https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/97mjya/azula_did_nothing_wrong/

Azula has a body count of zero, and she consistently chooses the least violent option, so her service to the Fire Nation actually saves lives. She is a better person than you think she is, and she is a much better sister than Zuko deserves. If that sounds ridiculous, read on for evidence.

Azula has a terrible reputation. People call her a sociopath, a sadist, and a murderer; they assign her infinite cruelty, ruthlessness, selfishness, and ambition. Even her defenders usually concede that she is obviously a villain; they just argue that she deserves a redemption arc, or that she is a product of her environment.

People are wrong. Azula is neither a sociopath nor a sadist nor a murderer. She is neither cruel nor ruthless nor selfish nor ambitious. Azula is not a villain. She is patriot and a peacemaker who serves her country and always looks out for her brother.

Seriously. Look at her record. Azula never kills anybody. In fact, she consistently chooses the least violent option.

When her father sends her to capture Zuko and Iroh, she tries to bring them home as honored guests. When Zuko attacks her on the ship, Azula simply parries his strikes for almost the entire battle; she chooses not to hit back. Later, in Ba Sing Se, Azula again tries to apprehend Zuko and Iroh nonviolently. Iroh again strikes first, Zuko again wants to fight Azula, and she again refuses to fight him.

When Azula defeats the Kyoshi Warriors, she merely imprisons them. She does not execute or torture or otherwise harm them. On the other hand, when the Kyoshi Warriors capture Aang, Katara, and Sokka, Oyaji at first intends to use the three of them as sea monster chum! Furthermore, on several occasions, we hear horror stories about how the Fire Nation treats internees, so Azula could actually be atypically merciful.

When Iroh besieged Ba Sing Se, his efforts cost probably thousands of lives. When her turn comes, Azula finds a way to take the city almost peacefully. Even the king, his generals, and Long Feng survive. There is no collateral damage, which is frankly incredible! Sure, Aang spares Ozai, Katara spares Yon Rha, and Sokka saves a village from Jet; those all are noble moments, but Azula manages to conquer an impenetrable city with practically no casualties! If a massive offensive by the Fire Nation against Ba Sing Se was inevitable, and Sokka says that it was, then her brave, bold, brilliant scheme saves countless lives on both sides!

True, she nearly kills Aang, but that comes after Aang enters the Avatar State. Azula knows that Aang rampages uncontrollably whenever he enters the Avatar State, and the cavern is on the verge of collapse, so her attempt to kill him is arguably the right call. Sorry, Aang.

When the eclipse comes, and Toph finds the secret bunker, does Azula send wave after wave of depowered redshirts to delay her enemies? No. Does she run away? No. While her father hides, she faces Aang, Sokka, and Toph without the ability to firebend. She deals with the situation in the only way that puts only her at risk.

When Sokka, Suki, and Zuko hop on the gondola lift to escape the prison, Azula chooses to give chase rather than to cut the line. She chooses the riskier non-lethal option.

When Mai and Ty Lee turn against her, she imprisons rather than executes them. Her father vows to punish treason with death when Zuko confronts him in the bunker, so the fact that her erstwhile friends survive implies that Azula keeps the Fire Lord in the dark. Mai and Ty Lee hurt her, but she still protects them. Is this the behavior of a bloodthirsty demon-creature of spite?

To recap, Azula never kills, avoids violence whenever possible, and treats her defeated foes well. She accomplishes her military objectives with methods that are, if anything, implausibly humane and conscientious.

Now, I realize that this is, in some ways, a show for children. Remember, though: Long Feng murders Jet, Sozin committed genocide against the Air Nomads, and Ozai carpet bombs the Earth Kingdom. A villain kills in this world, so the fact that Azula never kills is significant.

Even Katara and Sokka have higher body counts. Katara kills a bunch of soldiers when she slices apart a balloon. Sokka kills hundreds more when he crashes the fleet of airships. I would mention Iroh and Zuko, but they each undergo a metamorphosis, and people generally consider them redeemed or reformed. Nobody explicitly questions what Sokka and Katara did, though. Nobody requires them to atone. Apparently, their methods are acceptable.

My point is not that Sokka, Katara, and the Kyoshi Warriors are secretly evil; my point is that Azula does not act like a villain. Her tactical decisions are significantly more pacific than those of our nominal heroes. What about her big-picture decisions, though? Are those evil?

Azula is a princess of the Fire Nation, and she dares to do her duty as a princess of the Fire Nation. Yes, the war is unjust, and the Fire Nation was the aggressor, but the war predates her birth by more than eighty years. Sozin never asked Azula whether the Fire Nation should attack. For her, the war is immutable. Would you condemn every good soldier who serves her country in a controversial overseas conflict?

Moreover, when her brother offered his two cents on the war, their father scarred and exiled him. Azula knows that her only options are (1) to take a principled stand against the war or (2) to fight for the Fire Nation.

If she chooses to take a stand, then she becomes powerless, and madmen like Zhao run the war. She retains her moral purity and can feel delightfully self-righteous while thousands of soldiers die in futile offensives against Ba Sing Se. Zuko grows old in exile because nobody in the Fire Nation cares to redeem him.

If she chooses to fight, then she has a chance to make a difference. If she is in command, then a general who sacrifices battalions of new recruits is not.

Now, if your country wages an unjust war, and you do not have the power to cancel it, but you do have the power to win it without any further bloodshed, then is it not your moral obligation to win the unjust war and thereby save lives on both sides? If your only options are (1) ceaseless slaughter or (2) immediate victory for your country, whose cause is suspect, then is it really wrong to choose immediate victory for your country?

Azula chooses to fight. She does not open a new front, as Zhao did; instead, she ends the endless battle for Ba Sing Se. She wins the unjust war and thereby saves lives on both sides.

If her big-picture decisions are defensible, and her tactical decisions are ethical, then Azula is only a villain because she is an unpleasant person, a nasty woman. We therefore should examine the charges against her personality individually.

People call her a sociopath or psychopath, but she always fulfills her obligations, always plans ahead, consistently chooses the least violent option, generally avoids risks, rarely puts her allies or countrymen in danger, and never acts impulsively. She is demonstrably remorseful and empathetic on Ember Island. Sure, she feels superior, but she is royalty and exceptionally competent at practically everything, so that is pretty understandable. She is mean to her friends on a few occasions, but if that makes her antisocial, then most young teenagers are antisocial.

Is she sometimes abrasive? Does she sometimes declaim like malice incarnate? Yes and yes, but context is important.

Azula lives in a hyper-masculine, hyper-patriarchal warrior culture. Zhao is so aggressive that he literally kills the moon. Ozai scarred and banished Zuko for disrespect. Before his epiphany, Iroh made jokes about his intention to raze Ba Sing Se; he sent young Zuko a knife and young Azula a fashionable doll. A few years later, Azula is a young girl who commands veteran warriors twice her age. Please, let me know how many other female officers of the Fire Nation you see on the front lines.

In context, can you condemn Azula for some over-the-top rhetoric? Perhaps she worries that her speeches must be twice as fiery to intimidate or inspire half as effectively, and her rivals will use any sign of weakness against her. Doubtlessly she knows that her father respects only strength, and she is just a few compassionate moments away from banishment or worse. This is a “Nixon in China” situation.

Her over-the-top rhetoric has a further utility. If her opponents believe that she is insane, then they believe that she is capable of any atrocity at any time, so they give up or give in. In Ba Sing Se, her plan works because her enemies truly fear her when she threatens the Earth King. Paradoxically, her bellicose style saves lives.

We should not condemn Azula because her words are harsh; we should commend her because her actions remain so restrained. It speaks to her essential goodness that she never carries out her many ostentatious threats. In fact, her consistent eschewal of bloodshed conceivably leads to further over-the-top rhetoric as she seeks to preempt charges of softness.

What about her purported selfishness and ambition, though? Well, this is where the case against her personality really fails. Azula never pursues her personal interests. She never seeks the throne. Instead, despite the fact that his death or disgrace makes her accession more likely, and that his return to the Fire Nation jeopardizes her position, she continually works to help her older brother.

When Azulon ordered Ozai to kill Zuko, Azula warned her brother. She told the truth, but he called her a liar. Luckily for him, Azula also warned their mother, which saved his life.

Years later, after the conquest of Ba Sing Se, although her orders were to capture Zuko, she instead affords him the opportunity to join her and restore his honor. When they return to the Fire Nation, she delivers a report to their father. If she lies, then Zuko joins Iroh in prison, but she vouches for him, and their father welcomes him back.

Azula brings Zuko home, and he repays her kindness with a major deception; he denies that there is a chance that the Avatar is still alive. Azula senses the deception, so she gives him the credit for the death of the Avatar. Is Azula therefore a bad sister? No. If the Avatar is dead, then Azula is a wonderful sister who sacrifices personal glory to help her brother. If the Avatar is still alive, then Zuko is an awful brother who damages his country to hurt his sister.

Nevertheless, Azula looks out for Zuko. She advises him not to visit Iroh in prison, but he ignores her, and she apparently never reports him.

On Ember Island, Azula follows Zuko to their old house, comforts him, and helps him understand his anger. In response, he expresses exactly zero interest in how she feels. When he learns that she believes that their mother loved her less and considered her a monster, he is silent. When his little sister cries out for somebody, anybody to care about her, to console her, to tell her that she is not a monster and that they love her, he is silent. Her big brother is silent.

When Zuko does not receive an invitation to the big meeting, Azula assures him that Ozai wants him there, but he again calls her a liar. Now, there a few possibilities. Either (1) Ozai wants Zuko there but inexplicably does not send him an invitation; (2) Ozai wants Zuko there, and somebody intercepts the invitation for no good reason; or (3) Ozai initially does not want Zuko there. It seems most likely that Ozai initially does not want Zuko there. Of course, in the end, Ozai refuses to start the big meeting until Zuko arrives, which implies that somebody changes his mind. Who except Azula could and would do that?

Again and again, Azula supports her neglectful, miserable sibling. She puts her love for him before her personal aspirations, and that ultimately costs her everything.

When Zuko betrays the Fire Nation, Mai gets a scroll. Ozai gets an earful. Azula gets nothing. For the second time, her big brother is gone, and he does not care enough to tell her why.

This was sadly predictable, of course. Zuko always envies and misrepresents Azula.

Zuko claims that she always lies, which grossly distorts her behavior. When she warned him about the plot to murder him, she told the truth. When Ozai sends her to capture Zuko, and she tells Zuko that Ozai wants him back, the deception was necessary to avoid an unnecessary battle. When she assures Zuko that Ozai wants him at the big meeting, the possible falsehood should comfort Zuko, and Azula makes it the truth after the fact.

Angelic Aang tells just as many whoppers! He conceals the map to Hakoda, invents the “Wei Jin versus Jin Wei” story, and even breaks an Avatar promise to cut out the Toph-based scams!

Zuko complains that Azula was born lucky, whereas he was lucky to be born. Of course, he was born a prince of the Fire Nation, so he grew up in wealth and comfort, but that speaks less to his opinion of Azula than to his boundless self-pity.

Sure, maybe Azula was born with natural talents, but she works hard to make the most of those talents. Unlike Zuko, Azula paid attention in school; on two occasions, she recites history that he forgot. When Azula trains on her ship, she is dedicated and self-motivated. When Zuko trains on his ship, he is uncoachable and impatient.

Rather than recognize his flaws, Zuko blames everything on Azula. He even wants to blame Combustion Man on her!

Now, I realize that there are some who interpret each apparently noble deed that Azula does as the next step in some obscure, serpentine evil scheme. For these people, the hatred of Azula is totally reasonable even in the absence of evidence because Azula always covers her tracks.

This is frankly nonsense. Either Azula helps Zuko because she wants good things for him, or she helps him because she wants bad things for him. Remember, after the conquest of Ba Sing Se, Azula does not derive personal gain from her support of her brother; she actually risks personal loss. Therefore, either Azula works to restore his honor, his title, and his bond with his father because she wants him to be happy, or she does all that to hurt him in some way at some point in the future. Which explanation makes more sense?

If Azula is not a monster after all, then what should we think of how the story of this brave, humane, hyper-intelligent, hyper-competent leader concludes?

Her (terrible, terrible, terrible) mother left her when she was a child. Her mistrustful, ungrateful, spiteful brother betrays her, which leads Mai and Ty Lee to follow suit. Azula did everything right, and everybody still leaves her. Even her (terrible, terrible, terrible) father leaves her, and she becomes the Fire Lord. Good for her. She earns it but never seeks it. Somehow, against all odds, the heir to a hereditary monarchy is actually the most qualified candidate. For once, nepotism works!

At this point, her brother asks Katara, “How would you like to help me put Azula in her place?” Not “put her down” or “stop her” or “defeat her” or any of a hundred other formulations. “How would you like to help me put Azula in her place?” Zuko never learns to handle the fact that his little sister is his superior in practically every way.

What happens next? Well, suddenly, the tough, smart young woman who took down the Earth Kingdom daintily eats cherries and obsesses over foot hygiene. The warrior who nearly ended the Avatar spends her time in front of a mirror, frustrated by her hair.

The trope of the hysterical woman claims another victim.

Zuko arrives at the palace, and Azula again deals with the situation in the only way that puts only her at risk; she agrees to an Agni Kai, a non-lethal duel. The siblings clash, the flames are really awesome, and she bends lightening despite her supposed breakdown. After Azula burns Zuko and wins the Agni Kai, does she at any point move to finish him off? No. She knows that her brother is alive, but she just bombards Katara.

Now, Azula is the duly decreed Fire Lord, she wins the Agni Kai, she never commits a crime against humanity, and she never hurts a citizen of the Fire Nation. There is no justification for regime change. Nobody elects Zuko, and he never wins the job. We have no reason to believe that this moody teenager is particularly well-suited to the throne. His only qualification is his allegiance to a foreign power, which makes him nothing more than a puppet, a mere stooge.

Furthermore, the whole knock on the Fire Nation is that they want to control the world. Aang and his allies set out to restore balance, so how can they turn around and repose Azula? It is hugely hypocritical, and we should not root for it.

All in all, Avatar: The Last Airbender is the tragedy of a strong, brilliant, patriotic young woman whose downfall is her unstinting devotion to her undeserving brother.

Please, bring on the counter-arguments. I want an excuse to present my unused evidence. For example, “Azula is totally evil. Just look at the volleyball game on Ember Island! She burns down the net and delivers an insane speech about total annihilation!” “Okay, well, by that standard, Aang is totally evil. Remember how he beats Sokka 7–0 when they play airball? Remember how he hits the ball so ferociously (at his close friend) that it likely cracks a few ribs? Sokka is in terrible pain by the end of the match.”

To close, I just want to say that (despite my negativity) I really like Avatar: The Last Airbender in general. I do not hate Aang, Katara, Sokka, or Toph; I do not root for Ozai; and I do not believe that Johnny Lawrence is secretly the protagonist of The Karate Kid.

ITT: class once again outs himself as a pedophile and tries to deny it.

You can be in love with someone for reasons other than her age. Take a look at my post on reddit a few hours ago that goes into detail about why I like Azula so much. Bryan could say Azula is an eleven year old and I would still love her, he could say she's actually been 73 this whole time and guess what -  my love remains the same. Keep trolling dude, I won't let it get to me.

Quote from: Carmen on February 01, 2019, 09:30:01 AM

Quote from: Desty on February 01, 2019, 09:25:45 AM

Quote from: Carmen on February 01, 2019, 08:41:24 AM

Quote from: Desty on February 01, 2019, 07:05:56 AM

you know she's 14 right?

Uh, no? She's 17 canonically.

both your pfp and the image in the wiki is using pictures of her when she's 14. She's 14 in the series, and in some comic books that take place later on she's 17. Have you even read those comics? I haven't ever seen your post shit like her burning up the letters or her trying to make Zuko be more like her

I haven't read the comics yet, they came out recently and I've been pretty broke. I can use whatever image I want of her lol. Believe me once I have enough money to buy The Search and Smoke & Shadow I will outclass you in Azula lore

Haha that's not the point, she's 14. Stop saying she's 17

No, she's canonically 17. Why do you want her to stay at 14 lol? That's kinda creepy.

you know she's 14 right?

Uh, no? She's 17 canonically.

this better not be a challenge because I win no contest

In school you look decent

LOL liar

Your eyes were normal-sized when you were a kid

yeah and now they're mega sized for extra cuteness

Looks like you've had some eye opening experiences since you were a youngster.

yeah I've had to enlarge my perspective

pretty sure noelle is comfortably male again fam

yeah why the fuck am I being compared to noelle fuckng whatsoever

thats so fucked up

I'm sorry for the attention whore thread, I was just looking at old photos of me on facebook and realized I had pictures from when I was really young that I forgot about. I looked so bad back then.

omg loaf you are too much

Quote from: Carmen on January 28, 2019, 09:43:22 AM

Quote from: Aether on January 28, 2019, 09:13:56 AM

Do you have narcolepsy or something?

I was high as shit and zoned out, I went down there during my peak high and that was such a mistake.

But yeah I just now went downstairs and played fallout for an hour, and I feel so much better now. I got lucky and I'm going to learn from this.

Are you gonna stop taking drugs?

Spoiler

No, right? That's not the lesson to be learned here... sigh

No, but I'm going to be a lot more cautious and careful when I'm high. When you feel on top of the world it's hard to keep yourself in check, but I can definitely tone it down and be more careful in the future.

Do you have narcolepsy or something?

I was high as shit and zoned out, I went down there during my peak high and that was such a mistake.

But yeah I just now went downstairs and played fallout for an hour, and I feel so much better now. I got lucky and I'm going to learn from this.

Or you could like, not fall down a flight of stairs like a normal person.

yeah I was fucked up and I'm not going to take the stairs again in that state

Holy fucking shit I need to be more careful. I was just trying to go downstairs to play my PS4, I was carrying my laptop with me to bring downstairs, but halfway down the stairs I zoned out / fainted / whatever and fucking collapsed and rolled down the stairs onto the hard concrete basement floor. I got so lucky that I didn't snap my neck, but holy shit my jaw and neck feels so fucked up right now. The pain is kinda going away though, I just hope my body can repair this shit by itself so I don't need to pay hospital bills. I think I'm going to be fine, if it was a lethal injury I would've been dead by now. Anyway just wanted to have an official post here so I can look back on this and not make the same mistake in the future. I need to be a lot more cautious, I should've just went outside and walked down the incline to get to the basement.

But what's funny about this is that I realized something. If I was a girl - small and petite and fragile like I want to be - I would've died right there. I hate my big tall burly body and all that comes with it, but goddamn, my body type probably saved my life tonight. It would have been so much worse if I didn't have that male tougher bones and larger body and all that. Me being trans probably saved me tonight. I think I can start to appreciate the benefits of having a physically strong body now. It might not make me look cute or pretty, but my stature has so many grounded life benefits that I didn't realize until now. Being alive is the most important thing, way more important than even being a girl, so I'm actually glad that I have this build now. It's going to be a lot harder to kill me lol. I can be a trans woman with a big body actually - that's fine. I can protect people and protect myself that way. I never knew I had this privilege honestly and I'm going to value it a lot more in my life now.

Quote from: Carmen on January 27, 2019, 09:03:28 PM

Quote from: Ian on January 27, 2019, 08:08:06 PM

Class, I gotta know; are you AGP or not?

hahaha fuck you Ian. AGP isn't real - it's a tactic bigots use to attack trans women. If you sincerely support a term that was invented to discredit the years of suffering and feelings of inferiority that every member this demographic has to go through, and tries to pass off all of that as "you just want to fulfill your fetish fantasy", then I have zero respect for you and you're a bad person.

as someone who used to care about you (and as someone who did for many years before we were together) I'm concerned for you

Thank you. That means a lot. I'm so sorry for everything you had to deal with about me, you didn't deserve to have to go through that. But I'll just say this now - if you agree with Ian about AGP being a real phenomenon that divides trans women into two different classes, then I want nothing to do with you in the future. I'm still sorry for what I did, but I will not be around people who hold that toxic and objectively wrong view.