none

what a silly thing to dream about

i really really really don't like bananas

me>magnus

Quote from: Verbatim on May 10, 2017, 12:22:06 PM

Quote from: Extirpator Beta on May 10, 2017, 12:16:49 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 10, 2017, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: Extirpator Beta on May 10, 2017, 10:56:34 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 10, 2017, 10:39:26 AM

She later brings up that, as often as female supporting characters tend to verbally coddle the player for doing a good job, the male protagonist rarely if ever returns the favor. That would be too organic and sensible.

BioShock Infinite isn't like that at all, though.

Also that's probably because females are more nurturing people than men. That's a fact. That is organic.

I don't wanna talk about games I haven't played, but I don't disagree that females are more nurturing than men. But I'd consider what I just described to be an acceptable break from reality.

What do you mean by an acceptable break from reality?

Exactly what it sounds like. The fact that Street Fighter games don't generally put female characters at an inherent disadvantage just because they're female is an acceptable break from reality.

They're at a disadvantage if they're a more nurturing character?

Where did I say that?

Quote from: Verbatim on May 10, 2017, 10:39:26 AM

She later brings up that, as often as female supporting characters tend to verbally coddle the player for doing a good job, the male protagonist rarely if ever returns the favor. That would be too organic and sensible.

BioShock Infinite isn't like that at all, though.

Also that's probably because females are more nurturing people than men. That's a fact. That is organic.

I don't wanna talk about games I haven't played, but I don't disagree that females are more nurturing than men. But I'd consider what I just described to be an acceptable break from reality.

The mechanic that you need to clear an area before proceeding is a common one and doesn't become sexist just because a woman is the one opening up the next section

Having supporting characters open up areas is meant to limit the player and having them giving the character tools is meant to reward the player; both of which again doesn't become sexist just because a woman is doing it

You're not really explaining why, though. You're just saying that it's not sexist. You're not demonstrating how it isn't.

The game congraluting you for completing a section isn't sexist just because a woman does it

You're really good at missing her point.

She later brings up that, as often as female supporting characters tend to verbally coddle the player for doing a good job, the male protagonist rarely if ever returns the favor. That would be too organic and sensible.

What the heck is SFM porn?

People import character models into Source Filmmaker and make porn out of it. They're all over 4chan.

Fictional women can be portrayed as whatever the fuck the game designers and the players want them to be.

Shockingly enough, nobody has ever denied this.

And you know what's great about being able to do whatever you want?

It still doesn't absolve you of your sexism, and if anything, exacerbates it, because you're unapologetic.

Games aren't designed to cater to feminist criteria. They're designed to be fun for the player.

An umbrella that feminist criteria falls under--for players of all genders. They are not mutually exclusive ideals, and no amount of you twisting the narrative will change that. It's not my fault that you want games to be socially regressive and I don't.

The only way it's going to happen is if she continues buying the games that at least meet some of her feminist requirements, not whining on the internet.

1. How do you know she doesn't already?

2. Is she not openly encouraging her audience to speak with their wallets and support feminist-friendly games (and other media) through her whining? Is she not challenging developers to design games with feminist ideals in mind, while not putting a gun to their heads? Is she not creating discussions like this that could eventually lead up to such changes happening in the industry?

Wouldn't all of these things make this avenue a much more viable and efficient solution than what you're suggesting?

The only difference is that you have to hear ideologies different from your own. The horror.

There's really nothing wrong with any of these mechanics

They're only wrong to her when they apply to women which is kind of a sexist idea itself

No, they're wrong because they disproportionately, if not only, apply to women.

what a retarded post

Sad news: Apparently, this is the LAST Tropes vs. Women video she's ever doing.

The series has had a lot of ups and downs--she's made good points and bad points--but at least she's sending it off with a good subject. So, for the last time:

TRIGGER WARNING: The following video contains feminism; if you're a stupid bigot, please move along.

“OK, it looks like I can open it from here, but I can’t go with you. Here goes!”

In 2013, 2K Games released BioShock Infinite, the eagerly anticipated follow-up to the earlier, hugely successful BioShock games. Infinite’s story centers on a man named Booker DeWitt, a private investigator with a bloody past who takes on a mysterious assignment: Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt.

What follows is Booker’s adventure to the flying city of Columbia, where “the girl,” Elizabeth, has been imprisoned in a tower for her entire life. Busting her out of captivity, while she busts out of her corset, Booker shoots his way across Columbia, getting caught up in all sorts of drama in the process as the game tells players a garbage story which suggests that oppressed people are just as bad as their oppressors and the truth is always somewhere in the middle. But that’s much too big a can of worms for us to open in this video. Let’s just focus on Elizabeth.

Elizabeth possesses the incredible ability to open portals to other timelines, an ability that plays a significant role in the plot as Booker and Elizabeth hop forward and backward and from side to side in time, leaping from one version of Columbia to another and sometimes thrusting Booker into the past or the future. So as a plot device which drives elements of the game’s narrative, she’s very significant. In gameplay terms, however, Elizabeth serves a different kind of role: that of a glorified door opener.

CLIP: Bioshock Infinite
Here you go.

As with most shooters, Bioshock Infinite often puts you into situations where you can’t progress until you’ve cleared an area of enemies. The way it frequently does this is by blocking doors to the next area that can’t be opened by Booker. Only Elizabeth can do this, which she does only when all the enemies have been killed. For all of her tremendous powers, Elizabeth is reduced by the game’s mechanics to doing the most basic and menial of tasks, and waiting around for her to open a door becomes a significant aspect of how players experience her character.

CLIP: Bioshock Infinite
Let me scout around ahead and see if there’s some way to move forward.

Of course, she performs other actions as well, sometimes tossing Booker ammo, first aid or other useful items, or opening tears through which he can have her summon things like weapons or killer robots to help him in combat. Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong with the idea of characters who play a supporting role in combat situations. But Elizabeth is an example of a female sidekick who is reduced to a tool. There aren’t gameplay mechanics that allow you to have meaningful interactions with her. She just opens doors and dispenses useful things, and her tear-opening powers are not her own, but yours to call on and control with the press of a button.

CLIP: Bioshock Infinite
Elizabeth…a little help?

-Looks simple enough.

At other times, she’s less like a person and more like a sexualized slot machine, tossing you the occasional coin.

CLIP: Bioshock Infinite
Here you go!

-You’re a lion!

As a glorified gate-keeper, Elizabeth joins a long tradition of female sidekicks, including Alyx from Half-Life 2 and its follow-up episodes, and Yorda from the much-beloved ICO, whose magic is needed to activate doors, staircases and other mechanisms that allow players to advance. Yorda also has the distinction of being the quintessential example of what I call the Damsel Escort Mission. You know, after making three whole videos about damsels, I’d kinda hoped to never have to talk about them again, but gaming’s love of using helpless women as both narrative and gameplay devices was too much for even those videos to contain.

Damsel escort missions occur when a female character joins the male player character, but is largely helpless, and rather than being a clear benefit to the player, she feels more like a burden. In ICO, players free Yorda from a cage early on. She then joins Ico on his journey, and much of the game consists of solving puzzles so that Yorda, who can’t make leaps or climb walls on her own, can traverse the environment. Meanwhile, players also need to protect her from the shadow monsters who sometimes try to whisk her away. Spoiler alert: yes, in the ending cutscene, Yorda carries Ico out of the crumbling castle, but what the narrative tells us or shows us in the end doesn’t undo the impact of how we experience a character through gameplay. Another classic damsel escort mission occurs in Resident Evil 4, where Ashley Graham, the president’s daughter, has caused players tremendous frustration over the years by burdening them with the need to protect and manage her.

Whether they’re presented as capable or helpless, female companions often encounter situations in which they just can’t proceed on their own. Ellie in The Last of Us, for instance, is hardly a Yorda-like damsel, but when she encounters a body of water, she may as well be, and Joel has to go out of his way to get her across. Now, look, there’s a lot to admire about The Last of Us, but I guarantee you, nobody’s favorite part of that game was helping Ellie get across the water.

A good rule of thumb is that if you spend any portion of a game carrying a female character around, it’s a pretty safe bet that it at least has some elements of the Damsel Escort Mission.

CLIP: Prince of Persia
Ow! You’re heavier than you look!

To be clear: There’s nothing whatsoever inherently wrong with depictions of people helping each other in times of difficulty. If anything, we could do with a lot more narratives that focus on companionship, cooperation, and support. But the models games give us rarely offer experiences in which this kind of support is truly mutual; instead, we see a pattern of men frequently carrying and helping women in situations where they’re otherwise helpless. This pattern is rooted in sexist ideas about men as protectors and women as the ones who need this kind of protection. Perhaps no game makes this more obvious than Dead Rising 2, in which players sometimes need to carry female survivors to safety, but are never able to carry male ones. It’s coded into the gameplay that men are the ones who kill and protect, and that women are the ones who experience moments of helplessness and need to be carried. When these female characters are of aid to the player, it’s often in rudimentary ways, as a glorified door opener, or an even more basic tool. in the Ocarina of Time dungeon “Inside Jabu-Jabu’s Belly,” players must carry the snobby Zora princess Ruto around, at one point using her as a weight to press down a switch. And in Metal Gear Solid 5, you’ve got four sidekick options to take with you on missions: a dog. A horse. A robot. And a woman..

Finally, female companions often function as cheerleaders, doling out little ego boosts to players for gunning down bad guys or pulling off other feats.

CLIP: Resident Evil 4
And I have to get you out of here. Now come with me!

Along with the glorified door-opening and the damsel-like aspects, female sidekicks are there to make players feel better about themselves, to make them feel important and skilled.

CLIP: Enslaved: Odyssey to the West
You did it! You did it!

CLIP: Outrun 2006: Coast to Coast
Wow! You’re so cool!

CLIP: Blast Corps
You’re just trying to impress me.

CLIP: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Did I impress you? Got all those guys by myself.

But these interactions are rarely depicted as mutually supportive. It’s not nearly as common in these scenarios for the male player character to offer emotional support to their female sidekick, to tell her that she’s doing a great job. These particular sidekicks aren’t designed as characters that players can actively engage in developing a relationship with, characters who are fully fleshed-out people with their own goals and desires that sometimes require players to compromise their own wants or desires. This pattern of female sidekicks who serve more as gameplay devices, door openers, and ego boosts than as people is a design approach rooted in the idea of games as power fantasy; players get to feel powerful and important, sometimes issuing orders that are obeyed without hesitation or doubt, sometimes being told that they’re doing a great job. Companion dynamics in games almost never model what equal footing, cooperation and collaboration in a relationship might look like, but instead serve to make the player feel like the center of the world, the one in control, which is not at all a model for healthy relationships.

Of course, a huge number of games focus on men fighting alongside other men, and in these games, the male companions often have some of the same characteristics we sometimes see in female companions.

CLIP: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
And that’s at least 10 more confirmed, Hunter 2-1. Good shooting.

It’s very common for male characters to compliment the player on their good shooting, or to breach a door that the player character can’t open himself. However, typically these characters are presented as equal participants in the conflict. In shooters ranging from Call of Duty to Gears of War, the player’s male companions are armed and active, and are portrayed as playing their part to fend off or eliminate the enemy threat.

Occasionally in these games, male characters do have to protect other men. But unlike scenarios in which men protect women, these less-common instances in which men must protect or rescue other men don’t represent a significant pattern and don’t reinforce pre-existing cultural attitudes about men, women and gender. Similarly, the occasional situation in which a female character protects a male one, which happens in the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot, among other games, also isn’t a problem because it doesn’t work to reinforce limiting, harmful ideas about women or men that already exist in our culture. In other words, we don’t live in a culture that says that, generally speaking, men should be the protectors and women should be the protected. When women function as competent companions whose skills are more-or-less equal to those of the player character, it can challenge these ideas. The Last of Us goes against the grain by giving us the character of Tess, a somewhat rare and refreshing example of a woman who fights alongside the male protagonist, and the later Gears of War games do a decent job of including female squad members who are on equal footing with their male counterparts. And thankfully, we are seeing more games that complicate and subvert the old patterns, providing players with relationships with supporting characters who don’t function as mere extensions of the player but who feel like separate, individual people.

The 2016 indie title One Night Stand throws players into a situation with a female character who clearly has her own feelings and her own desires, and communicating with her is a matter of trying to find some common ground for mutual understanding, not one in which the player is in total control of the situation. In Left Behind, the wonderful add-on for The Last of Us, Ellie’s companion Riley is not someone players can issue orders to or someone they have to protect. Riley is constantly active, often taking control of the situation, sometimes competing and being playful with Ellie, and as a result, she doesn’t feel anything like the companion characters in most games, or even anything like Ellie herself felt in the original game. Instead, she feels much more like a real person accompanying Ellie on the journey.

And while Trico in 2016’s The Last Guardian may not be a human character, he does possess some of the characteristics we’d like to see more of in human companions in games. Asking Trico to do things isn’t a simple matter of pushing a button and watching him immediately obey. He’s not a simple tool, not just an extension of the player. Sometimes he’s hesitant, reluctant, even frustrating. But this makes it feel more like he’s a living, breathing creature, with thoughts and feelings of his own, and by taking time to pet him, you can sometimes express your connection to him in ways that fall outside the requirements of the gameplay and the story. And crucially, Trico is often the one protecting the player, rather than the other way around. He does not exist to fuel a power fantasy, but to allow for gameplay mechanics that focus on cooperation, care, and helping each other.

When supporting female characters in games don’t have this kind of depth, when they exist primarily to be protected or to be ordered around, they not only reinforce harmful ideas about gender; they also fail as characters. Regardless of their gender, race, class or sexuality, a person is more than a tool and more than a burden, and games can and should give us mechanics and stories that reflect that.

Not a bad video, but having played Half-Life 2, I think she's underselling Alyx's role in that game a little bit.

Now that the series is over, here's every video she's ever made in this series:

Damsel in Distress: Part 1
Damsel in Distress: Part 2
Damsel in Distress: Part 3
Ms. Male Character
Women as Reward
Women as Reward: Special DLC Mini-Episode
Women as Background Decoration: Part 1
Women as Background Decoration: Part 2
Strategic Butt Coverings
Body Language and the Male Gaze
Lingerie is Not Armor
Are Women Too Hard to Animate?
All the Slender Ladies: Body Diversity in Video Games
Sinister Seductress
Not Your Exotic Fantasy
The Lady Sidekick

Looking back, I'm a little disappointed that she never really made a video that was dedicated solely to over-sexualization and sexual objectification. Of course, she gives no shortage of attention to that issue in all of her videos—it's a very broad topic, after all—but the closest she comes to fully tackling the subject is her infamous Women as Background Decoration video, where she unfairly criticizes Hitman: Absolution for allegedly encouraging you to kill and degrade the bodies of some scantily-clad women that appear in one scene—when in reality, the game actually penalizes you for doing so. She caught more flak for that than the entirety of her series, and even I was disappointed with that video.

She also only made TWO videos in her short-lived Positive Female Characters mini-series, which is unfortunate.

Nonetheless, she's made more good points than bad and rustled a lot of people's feathers along the way—and even though all of her criticisms are generally constructive and well-substantiated, and conducted in a very polite, courteous, respectful manner, people still managed to get pissed over her opinions. I think that's pretty funny. Whenever people tell me that I'd be a lot more agreeable if I didn't have such a caustic personality, I think of Anita Sarkeesian to remind myself of how untrue that is.

Quote from: Verbatim on May 09, 2017, 03:49:10 PM

besides that, i never really understood people's TOTAL AVERSION to seeing a single short advertisement

ads are the reason the internet is free; if i had to, i would watch ten ads before every video i watch just to keep it that way

i don't give a fuck

how does it feel now that nobody can say "some of us have jobs" as a response to you

never thought of that

why the fuck wouldn't you even say who it is you dumb bitch

besides that, i never really understood people's TOTAL AVERSION to seeing a single short advertisement

ads are the reason the internet is free; if i had to, i would watch ten ads before every video i watch just to keep it that way

i don't give a fuck

botw should've been the open world to end all open worlds

thankfully it's summer so i'll have a lot more time to play it

i'll get it done