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5071
« on: November 21, 2017, 01:00:09 PM »
So essentially, it boils down to a game must require the mechanics you speak of in order to beat it. That's depth that matters. (The difficulty you play on factors into this somewhere but I'm not sure how we'd go about solving that. What difficulty do you normally play on?) always "normal," because it's a word that suggests to me that this is how the game is "normally" meant to be played, unless otherwise specified I find this problematic though as the ability to complete a game is hardly an objective process. When someone mashes buttons are they lucking into combos or are they picking up certain combos as they play? If they begin to utilize these combos in a controlled manner it's not really button mashing anymore is it? At that point it just seems like fast paced gameplay which isn't inherently a problem. if, through button mashing, you discover an efficient/"cheap" combo that you can spam over and over and carry yourself through the entire game with it (or 2, or 3) then yeah, that's exactly the kind of shit that i'm talking about that's not deep a game with depth wouldn't allow you to just comfortably spam anything, and will instantly punish you for even trying My point is that you almost need to look at it on a case by case basis in order to judge depth. So what exactly are you basing your assertion that a game like DMC has no depth on? Do you know for a fact it's able to be beaten just by punching your controller?
i've done it, ages go i didn't button mash the entire time, but i was practically on autopilot i didn't have to think about anything that i was doing it's an autopilot game, that's what HnS is
5072
« on: November 21, 2017, 12:39:30 PM »
Look, Wind Waker captured me from the beginning as well, but there is simply no way to justify that it's the fault of the person for "not getting it". Again, I would ask what makes your interpretation better than the next person but there's no point. I already know your answer and it's tiring to hear you repeat that you're correct because it's you. disliking a game's opening 90% of the time comes down to a player's expectations
if you disliked the first couple hours of wind waker, you were probably expecting a different kind of game for w/e reason
how the fuck is that anyone else's problem but the player's
Ah great.
requiring skill and timing is below standard, that's every game ever, that's not deep
HnS games tend to be below that
you need to go way above that in order for your gameplay to be considered "deep"
The problem is that I don't think there's a fault here. No one did anything wrong per say... more that it's just a matter of taste.
Look, all I'm saying is your definition of HnS games seems to be different from mine or Snake's. The key point was saying that if a game has depth, it's not HnS. No amount of debate will convince either of us if we're on different pages regarding the definition.
regardless of whether DMC, bayonetta, or hyrule warriors can be considered HnS games, they have no depth i really don't care what they are at the end of the day, but they have zero depth any depth that the games COULD have, through their respective combo systems or what have you, is rendered null and void, because those are not necessary skills that you HAVE to learn in order to beat those games it's just for flash and stylishness, style over substance a game that prioritizes style over substance is the fucking antithesis of "DEEP"
5073
« on: November 21, 2017, 12:06:35 AM »
I still need to beat Spirit Tracks
tried doing Skyward Sword just because I DO wanna beat them all, but since it didn't work I might just have to settle for a darn YouTube movie of it. Even if it's bad, it's Zelda and I need to experience it in some form.
honestly, i'd just play it yourself if you still have it there still are people who think it's the best one, and there are plenty of aspects that i loved about it but in terms of what i look for in zelda, it just missed the boat completely i'm not really sure what you look for in zelda
5074
« on: November 20, 2017, 11:24:11 PM »
do you think bayonetta would be a better franchise if the games had any depth
5075
« on: November 20, 2017, 11:15:09 PM »
if the game doesn't make it clear what kind of game it is from the get go, that's the game's fault.
but it does, you fucking retard
nope
really the only zelda game that does it well is botw tbh
botw probably does it the worst
you don't understand anything about this series
yeah, botw probably does it the best
you are an unbelievable pushover
5076
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:58:24 PM »
if the game doesn't make it clear what kind of game it is from the get go, that's the game's fault.
but it does, you fucking retard
nope
really the only zelda game that does it well is botw tbh
botw probably does it the worst you don't understand anything about this series
5077
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:55:53 PM »
if the game doesn't make it clear what kind of game it is from the get go, that's the game's fault.
but it does, you fucking retard
5078
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:55:28 PM »
Look, Wind Waker captured me from the beginning as well, but there is simply no way to justify that it's the fault of the person for "not getting it". Again, I would ask what makes your interpretation better than the next person but there's no point. I already know your answer and it's tiring to hear you repeat that you're correct because it's you. disliking a game's opening 90% of the time comes down to a player's expectations if you disliked the first couple hours of wind waker, you were probably expecting a different kind of game for w/e reason how the fuck is that anyone else's problem but the player's Ah great.
requiring skill and timing is below standard, that's every game ever, that's not deep HnS games tend to be below that you need to go way above that in order for your gameplay to be considered "deep"
5079
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:46:32 PM »
"if someone doesnt like this game its their fault, not the game's"
what a convenient way to shut down your opponent
yeah it's almost like i even typed numerous paragraphs heavily substantiating that very position you dense cunt
5080
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:45:34 PM »
This seems rather self-centered no? No And you define depth as needing to do more than mash buttons right? Skill and timing.
you need WAY more than that
5081
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:40:31 PM »
Sure you can win fighting games by button mashing. maybe if your opponent is fucking garbage
the difference is that the button masher is going to lose against a player who knows what he's doing
the way hack 'n' slashes are designed, if they had pvp, the button masher is gonna win
If I play a fighting game and play the story mode I guarantee I can mash buttons to complete it. Give me one game where that would be impossible.
Regardless of everything else, please enlighten me on this one.
it's not a good comparison, because fighting games aren't really made for single player anyway
that said, if you play any fighting game's arcade mode on the hardest difficulty, you're not just going to be able to mash and win
I agree, it's not a great comparison. That being said, if I play Bayonetta on the hardest difficulty I highly doubt I'd be able to mash and win.
maybe you can't
5082
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:38:20 PM »
Sure you can win fighting games by button mashing. maybe if your opponent is fucking garbage
the difference is that the button masher is going to lose against a player who knows what he's doing
the way hack 'n' slashes are designed, if they had pvp, the button masher is gonna win
If I play a fighting game and play the story mode I guarantee I can mash buttons to complete it. Give me one game where that would be impossible.
Regardless of everything else, please enlighten me on this one.
it's not a good comparison, because fighting games aren't really made for single player anyway that said, if you play any fighting game's arcade mode on the hardest difficulty, you're not just going to be able to mash and win
5083
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:34:28 PM »
What's your response to someone who doesn't INSTANTLY get sucked into Wind Waker? "You're bad at playing video games" or "You're playing video games the WRONG way" if wind waker doesn't instantly suck you in, then i'd say it's a failure on the player's part to recognize what the game is trying to do at the beginning it's a big game, and big games usually start slow and quiet, because that's how a balanced and well-paced story works the slow start on outset island gives the player a chance to wrap themselves up in the game's story, absorb the cheerful, calm-before-storm atmosphere (while you still can), and emotionally connect with the tightly-knit denizens of the island before setting out on your long epic journey link's quiet, simple homelife is relatable and provides an extreme contrast to the perils he experiences during the rest of the game it's definitely something you appreciate more on subsequent playthroughs, but not something that CAN'T be enjoyed on your first, if you have an understanding of how adventure games like zelda tend to work So do they not have depth or are they not hack n slash?
whatever they are, they're bad and they don't have an ounce of depth, or at least the kind that actually matters
5084
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:15:51 PM »
Defining a game genre through the quality of the game is entirely arbitrary.
cool is anybody doing that in this thread? i don't think so
5085
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:15:00 PM »
10 bucks he comes back with something about how thats a dumb definition of hack n slash or some other bs
wrong
it's not a dumb definition, because it's not even a definition in the first place
it's literally just the first line of a wikipedia article, cut and pasted, with absolutely no detail or nuance
"3D third-person, weapon-based, melee action games" would have to include things like dark souls and breath of the wild
way to stick up for your butt buddy though, very cute
If that's the general idea of what a hack n slash is then that's what it is. If we're going to throw around what a hack n slash really is then what's the point?
what's the point? i don't know having a coherent discussion about what they are, maybe?
5086
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:13:48 PM »
hell, fucking SUPER SMASH BROS falls under that definition
You're being stubborn if you can't understand the type of game it's referring to.
that's not the fucking point of a definition tblocks they're not meant to be so vague that you can barely glean any important details out of them trying to define genres is stupid anyway, but if you're gonna try, you're gonna have to do better than "3D game with weapons"
5087
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:06:46 PM »
hell, fucking SUPER SMASH BROS falls under that definition
5088
« on: November 20, 2017, 10:06:06 PM »
10 bucks he comes back with something about how thats a dumb definition of hack n slash or some other bs
wrong it's not a dumb definition, because it's not even a definition in the first place it's literally just the first line of a wikipedia article, cut and pasted, with absolutely no detail or nuance "3D third-person, weapon-based, melee action games" would have to include things like dark souls and breath of the wild way to stick up for your butt buddy though, very cute
5089
« on: November 20, 2017, 09:24:50 PM »
"yeah i guess you could say they have D.E.P.T.H.
D - not
E - meaningful
P -in any
T - possible
H - way"
i'll take that as a victory
5090
« on: November 20, 2017, 09:10:01 PM »
many hack n slash games reward skilled play by making enemies take more damage from higher/more varied combos, making it the most efficient method possible unfortunately, that's not actually how any of them work and even if it was, it's still cheap satisfaction under the guise of deep rewarding gameplay which isn't real depth, but anti-depth it's potato chips i dont even play that many hack n slash games and the ones i do i dont enjoy for gameplay reasons. dmc and bayonetta are mechanically deep games. end of story. you keep repeating this like an autistic chimp, yet i've never said anything to contradict it the games have depth anti-depth but i'm not interested in anti-depth, i'm interested in real depth
5091
« on: November 20, 2017, 09:01:22 PM »
your fighting game comparison doesnt work because you can button mash in that game too. but you are less likely to succeed in DMC, bayonetta, and hyrule warriors, you are guaranteed to succeed if you mash maybe not if that's literally the only thing that you do, but mashing with a little bit of whatever else mixed in is not deep gameplay, and there's no point in mastering the rest of the game's moves, because they're overall less efficient despite being "satisfying" in an extremely superficial way ("wow that move gives me a nice view of her ass i'm gonna do that a lot" SUCH DEPTH) there's nothing deep about cheap satisfaction, so depth in achieving that cheap satisfaction should probably be considered anti-depth
5092
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:54:28 PM »
Ninja Gaiden is a hack n slash game but you need to know the combos and be damn good at dodging and blocking to live
if a game actually requires skill and timing and shit to win, it's not really a hack n slash, it's just an action game
the whole point of hack n slash is that they're mindless entertainment for 12 year olds who don't like thinking that much
I thought hack n slash games were games where you use a sword and combos a lot or something.
The combat in Nier for example is less complex than NG, for example, but I wouldn't go so far as to say you can button mash your way through it.
yeah nier isn't a hack 'n' slash at all it's not just about complexity, it's about being able to defeat a shitload of enemies at once with a few button presses and flashy animations, because it makes little boys' dicks hard (especially when a female character does it)
5093
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:52:56 PM »
"oh no ive talked out of my ass again and backed myself into a corner, better move the goalposts and pretend i know what im talking about"
for all the arguing you do you'd think you actually be good at it
you just described three things that i did not do you're the one in the corner, and you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about actually think about what you're saying right now you're saying that hack 'n' slash games HAVE DEPTH are you fucking insane
5094
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:48:34 PM »
Ninja Gaiden is a hack n slash game but you need to know the combos and be damn good at dodging and blocking to live
if a game actually requires skill and timing and shit to win, it's not really a hack n slash, it's just an action game
the whole point of hack n slash is that they're mindless entertainment for 12 year olds who don't like thinking that much
dmc and bayonetta and mgr arent hack n slash then
and they still manage to be garbage
okay! cool! awesome!
literally irrelevant. theyre full of depth. you lose, i win. papa bless.
everything about it was relevant they have 0 depth that matters, therefore they're garbage, and no intelligent person would play them
5095
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:47:16 PM »
not if youre button mashing
just because you can mash buttons to win doesn't mean it's the only thing you're doing that doesn't make it any less brainless
5096
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:43:41 PM »
Ninja Gaiden is a hack n slash game but you need to know the combos and be damn good at dodging and blocking to live
if a game actually requires skill and timing and shit to win, it's not really a hack n slash, it's just an action game
the whole point of hack n slash is that they're mindless entertainment for 12 year olds who don't like thinking that much
dmc and bayonetta and mgr arent hack n slash then
and they still manage to be garbage and just to bring this back on topic, hyrule warriors easily among the worst of all, and is a complete insult to the franchise
5097
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:43:07 PM »
depth is objective. you can calculate it. fundamental controls options x number of varied button inputs + NPC ability. but none of it matters if the game isn't fun to START with if the game isn't fun to start with, none of it matters you shouldn't want to make games fun, and fun in general shouldn't be what you want from a game anyway it takes about 3 or 4 hours to really enjoy it
yknow, after youve learnt the game's mechanics and how to do things more effectively it's instantly magnificent the moment you start playing the game, it immediately sucks you in from the very first island what is countering
something that i can easily bait
5098
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:36:42 PM »
Ninja Gaiden is a hack n slash game but you need to know the combos and be damn good at dodging and blocking to live
if a game actually requires skill and timing and shit to win, it's not really a hack n slash, it's just an action game the whole point of hack n slash is that they're mindless entertainment for 12 year olds who don't like thinking that much
5099
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:31:03 PM »
the way hack 'n' slashes are designed, if they had pvp, the button masher is gonna win
nope
yeah, pretty much guaranteed
5100
« on: November 20, 2017, 08:30:47 PM »
the argument stemmed from you laughing at the fact that Bayonetta and DMC have depth. It's indisputable that they do no matter how you slice it. i win. i assumed that by "depth" you meant "depth that matters" bayonetta has depth in ways that don't matter, sure, you win, thanks for admitting it's a shit game wind waker isn't fun to start with
wind waker is fucking amazing to start with
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