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44282
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:18:21 AM »
Yes, but there is nothing that can really be done to solve this problem entirely. The majority of people (including me) will never give up meat.
We can, however, treat the problem by making sure they don't suffer when they die. You can eat meat and still be an advocate for the philosophy. We can teach future generations not to eat meat. You realize that, right? Just because you're too weak-willed to stop doesn't mean we have to instill the notion in future generations.
44283
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:16:02 AM »
Yes, this too. Dietary choice has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to intelligence. Look at the extreme vegans and vegetarians, the eco-terrorists and the like. I'm just saying, obviously, if you're a vegan, you're basically making the statement that "killing sentient creatures is always wrong unless you have express permission to do so." Sounds like an intelligent proposition to me.
44284
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:13:41 AM »
There only reluctant because saying plants feel pain as a scientist is like saying you saw an alien mothership as a pilot. The feds will blacklist you from employment in the field. That sounds pretty bogus to me, sorry.
44285
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:11:40 AM »
And as I said, there are ways to make their deaths painless and suffering-free. You still don't have the right to kill them at all. If cows could say, "Yes, you may eat me," I'd be okay with you killing and eating that particular cow. If it meant and understood what it was saying.
44286
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:08:00 AM »
No.
yes
So what about pain? Do plants feel? Pollan says they do respond to anesthetics. "You can put a plant out with a human anesthetic. ... And not only that, plants produce their own compounds that are anesthetic to us." But scientists are reluctant to go as far as to say they are responding to pain. Das, come on. You're better than this.
44287
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:05:11 AM »
I don't support making animals suffer. Oxymoron.
44288
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:03:01 AM »
No.
44289
« on: January 11, 2015, 08:01:03 AM »
I wouldn't attack you for enjoying vegetables. There's no rational statement to be made against eating vegetables. My entire contention is suffering--you are perpetuating, supporting, promoting the suffering of sentient beings. That's the statement you're making as a meat-eater. I'm saying that's wrong. I don't "attack" meat-eaters, I argue with them. And when they act like selfish cunts, I tell them what they are. PS I fucking hate vegetables. I don't eat them, because I don't personally enjoy them. I would love to go back to meat-eating, because meat tastes so much better. But I'm ethically opposed to the torture and killing of animals, so I won't. It's that simple.
44290
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:57:45 AM »
Actually their brains could be incredibly different from ours. Not to mention their environment, culture, society. Even if they were humanoids with similar brains they'd be extremely different. The argument being made is that they'd be just as intelligent as us. If the most intelligent person you could ever think of is not a vegan, you're doing it wrong.
44291
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:55:55 AM »
If they could kill me, sure. I wouldn't call it their right, but if they have the power to do so, tough cookie. Well then, there you go. At least you're consistent with your beliefs. It's still irrational, though, because killing for no justified reason will always be wrong.
44292
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:52:44 AM »
But you see, they'd still have different brains from us. No, they wouldn't. A brain is a brain. Do you understand biology? At all?
44293
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:51:36 AM »
I wouldn't kill a chimp and eat him, but I'd kill a cow. That's about as humane and respectful killing gets, because at the end of the day I'm ending a creature's life to extend my own. Well, it would be great if someone else killed you, ate you, just to extend their own life. And they would be well within their right to do that, wouldn't they?
44294
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:48:33 AM »
No proof? I think the meat industry disproves that. How the fuck does the meat industry prove that? Slave owners proved that the only thing blacks are good for is slavery, then. That's your logic. And what about those? They provide different nutrients. They cover literally everything that you need. Meat is redundant and unneeded. It destroys any reason to take you seriously, sure. Hypothetical scenarios can't do shit because they're hypothetical and don't match reality. Therefore, it's retarded and meaningless and you have nothing to rely on but hypothetical fantasies You're such a bad troll.
44295
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:46:05 AM »
If they were as intelligent as us, do you even think they'd give one fuck what we think is right or wrong? Yes. Because they'd be as intelligent as us.
44296
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:43:40 AM »
But amoebas still eat other organisms, even if they aren't sentient. It doesn't MATTER if they're not fucking sentient. That's the whole goddamn issue. Eating things isn't inherently bad. Suffering is bad. How many times do I have to say this shit? It's natural. You say it as if it's a bad thing. No, I'm saying it as if it's the most horrible thing ever. Because it is. Just because something is natural doesn't make it okay. You have to demonstrate WHY it's okay. That's an appeal to nature fallacy. Not to mention most of the animals we use for food were bred over thousands of years for that specific purpose. AND THAT'S FUCKING HORRIBLE DO YOU NOT REALIZE HOW FUCKING HORRIBLE THAT IS
44297
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:40:48 AM »
No, I'm not religious. And yes, it's their purpose. They have no other reason to exist but to die for us. No proof. Apples? LOL no. Meat provides us with nutrients that veggies can't. You're forgetting grains, nuts, legumes, and vitamins. I understand hypothetical scenarios, it's just they're fucking retarded and completely pointless because they won't happen. So there's no reason to take them seriously. You're only not taking it seriously because it completely destroys your argument.
44298
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:39:06 AM »
It kind of eliminates the possibility. An organism from another planet, another planet would be so drastically different that we couldn't even begin to imagine it. It would have evolved (or maybe even something else) completely separate from us. So I fail to see why it would even entertain the thought of consuming organisms from another planet. 1. You're evading the point again. 2. You have no evidence that that would be the case. There's nothing wrong with it. Do what you like. But I'm going to keep eating animals. The only wrong thing is you think you're right and we're scumbags for eating food. Get over it. Like I said a couple pages ago when this all began. You can eat meat--just don't act like that's a good thing to do, and don't advocate that future generations do it. That's all I ask. And don't be a gluttonous piece of shit about it, either. Have an appreciation or a level of accounting for the sacrifice. Right, but they're not heartless. In fact, rarely does an animal kill another animal if isn't for food or territory. I classify that as heartless, unethical behavior. If carnivores had functioning brains capable of rationality, they'd recognize that killing things is bad, and they'd probably feel remorse over their kills.
44299
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:32:44 AM »
That fish getting chomped in half by a shark isn't okay with it. That protozoa being consumed by an amoeba isn't okay with it. That cow thrown into a grinder to make us food isn't okay with it. ...Exactly. Thanks for making the argument for me. Yes, sharks are pieces of shit. Except protozoans and amoebas aren't fucking sentient, so that example was just plain stupid. And I fail to see why it regresses our intelligence, either. Because we don't have to resort in taking the life of another feeling, sentient being-- taking it--for our petty desires. We don't have to kill animals to survive anymore. There are worthy alternatives. Arguably more healthy ones. The only argument you can possibly make is, "it tastes good." Which isn't an argument, but a concession to one's own selfish pusillanimity. Their addiction. It's an insult to our fucking intelligence. We don't need to kill animals anymore, and it causes a fuckton of suffering for them, so why not stop doing it. Just because we have the capacity to kill only plants instead of animals doesn't mean that we have to. I'd actually like to enjoy my meals, you know? Is that what it's about? You? Your personal enjoyment? Your personal enjoyment is worth the suffering of millions of sentient creatures. No, it isn't. We are naturally gluttonous, just like every other organism. And nothing will ever change that. 3% of adults in the US identify as vegetarians, and 1% of that 3% are vegans. Not a large figure, but it's there. And that's just the US. They represent living examples of people who prove you wrong. I am a living example of someone who proves you wrong. Nothing will ever change that? I did change it.
44300
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:19:28 AM »
Wonderful, then I'm golden.
Fetch me a cow and a .22, please. I want a flank steak. I'm saying it's just as bad, if not worse, but you know, whatever.
44301
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:16:44 AM »
The only execrable thing you've done is give your money to industries that slaughter and kill animals--the sort of thing you probably wouldn't do if you actually saw the cow you were about to eat getting brutally killed in front of you.
Can't be much different than having watched the venison that you're frying get decapitated and gutted.
You're right, it isn't.
44302
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:15:46 AM »
No such animal exists, so that'll never happen. Again, not the point. You don't know if there's not aliens out there that will find this fucking planet and find your ass incredibly tasty. The chances of that happening are infinitesimally low, but that's not the point. The point is, it should. Happen.
A hypothetical being from another planet would have a completely different chemistry to us. How would we even know it uses a metabolism? How would we even know it's a carbon based life form?
Not the point.What if they DID have the same chemistry? Seriously, what kind of argumentation is that? I'm not referring to any possibility--I'm referring to one specific type of possibility.
44303
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:13:48 AM »
Edit: I also never said it was okay to treat them like shit.
Don't put words in my mouth. My entire fucking argument is that killing animals in order to eat them is mistreatment. Full-stop. Explain to me what exactly is so wrong with us killing and eating animals? Do you want to be killed and eaten? No? Then what gives you the right to eat animals? Do you think they're okay with it? We're animals, and other animals do it, too. Like a Lion mauling an antelope to death. Why should we be like the stupid animals? We have the capacity to be much smarter and more responsible and more graceful than that. You talk about this great intelligence that we have--why are you asking us to regress? Except we do what humans do best, be gluttonous pieces of shit. Yep.
44304
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:09:25 AM »
No such animal exists, so that'll never happen. Again, not the point. You don't know if there's not aliens out there that will find this fucking planet and find your ass incredibly tasty. The chances of that happening are infinitesimally low, but that's not the point. The point is, it should. Happen.
44305
« on: January 11, 2015, 07:05:00 AM »
I'm not zealous... i'm just kidding anyway you are the biggest avatar fan i've met across the internet, though i mean, enough to name yourself after a character from the show, anyway
44306
« on: January 11, 2015, 06:57:30 AM »
Why would and should I care about them? I have absolutely no reason to care. Because you wouldn't want it to happen to you.I wish I could italicize that enough. Don't cry about it if someone much bigger and stronger and smarter than you hunts you down for someone else's food. And that's what you deserve to have happen to you, in my opinion, if you're going to say it's okay to treat animals like shit as long as you don't know the animal personally.
44307
« on: January 11, 2015, 06:47:29 AM »
...We've been going.
44308
« on: January 11, 2015, 06:44:58 AM »
Okay. Here's a scenario.
A building is on fire, and there's 10 people and 10 pigs trapped inside. Which do you try and save?
Spoiler If you say the pigs then you're morally backwards. How is that a relevant scenario to veganism? Oh right, it's not. Saying hou hope multiple people in this thread get killed is you just spazzing out as usual and shitting up a thread because you're argument is shit and because you're a hypocrite. I've demonstrated why I think you and those other people should get killed--it's simply a matter of reciprocation. You getting what you levy onto others. If you're okay with consuming sentient beings, and you see nothing at all wrong or reprehensible about torturing animals for our gain, I hope a sentient being tortures and consumes you. That's not "spazzing out". Not even a little bit. It's applying your OWN LOGIC to your garbage statements. My argument isn't shit. I actually have an argument. You're just upset because I have more empathy than you. And you have no argument. "But I like to eat meat!" Tough.
44309
« on: January 11, 2015, 06:27:32 AM »
Because it simply isn't.
A human life is more valuable than an animal. It's just the way things are. I don't accept your premise, at all. This will get nowhere if you can't come up with an actual reason. Verbatim shitting up yet another thread. Really? I honestly feel like this has been a pretty good discussion, ignoring your inability to make an argument. Go ahead and stir more shit, though, hypocrite.
44310
« on: January 11, 2015, 06:25:33 AM »
"Design" implies there's a designer. Well, that's obviously not what I meant. I'm sorry, but I didn't invent the language. When I use words like "design," I mean to imply that they've underwent a series of complex changes throughout their evolutionary history such that they'd most efficiently be able to kill other animals without remorse for their own gain, so they can be the #1 predatory threat in their area. Because they fuck, but they're mammals, so they can't fuck too often to survive--they have to be carnivorous, heartless killing machines to be able to propagate and sustain their own species. They're not like frogs, giving birth to a hundred or so of their offspring. They've evolved with a different ecological strategy. That's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about design. And still, I would argue that "evolution" is the "designer". It's not a person, it's a force of nature, but really, what difference does that make? It's a metaphor, for all intents and purposes.
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Lol verbatim doesn't even know what an addiction is