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39901
« on: April 22, 2015, 07:30:46 PM »
Wouldn't you agree that because those soldiers did what they did in WWII, that we're in a better way now? They did a lot of terrible things. Both sides did. But the conflict, eventually ended. It stopped. Yeah. I would argue that the voluntary human extinction movement is just that, however. We fight wars to end them. Okay, that's not true at all.But let's pretend it was. Anti-natalism is another war, essentially. It's a war against the human condition--a war to end all wars. And you know that, that's what this whole discussion has basically been about. Ending all conflict. If there are no sentient beings to suffer, there are no sentient beings to be responsible for. No sentient beings to be accountable for. So if we or anything else stands a chance to reach an end to conflict, or in your case, an end to misery, should they not try their absolute hardes to get there? To succeed? Am I not? This idea that anti-natalism is about being a quitter is simply a misunderstanding. An understandable one, but one nonetheless.
39902
« on: April 22, 2015, 07:13:42 PM »
Because simply looking at the hardship and stopping, saying, "Fuck this I quit" is against our nature. That isn't the anti-natalist statement, really. The statement being made is not surrender, but taking responsibility. It is not the coward's decision to "give up"--it is the ethical and logical statement of, "Life is an imposition, and we have no right to impose it on future generations." It's definitely not about surrender. Arguments can be made to say that evolution is a fundamentally broken game that breeds nothing but consuming machines to torture and kill and eat other consuming machines, simply to say, "I win" at the end. I disagree with your assessment that it would all be worth it in the end, but that's sort of a given. We're here. So why don't we be stubborn and do our absolute best to make things the best? That's all well and good, but I'm not talking about the people who are here. We can make life better for ourselves without having children. That's just a given. What I'm concerned about is bringing future people here, for no reason other than, "It's in our nature to reproduce." It would be like... a selfish and spoiled child throwing away a gift he got from his parents without realizing how much he had, right there in his hands. See, I knew you were going to use some sort of "life is a gift" metaphor. Like I said earlier--it doesn't function as a metaphor, because life is the scummiest gift anyone could possibly ever give. That's about the best justification I can try to sum up. If you want a real world example Verb, not to get all weepy and shit.
But I'm on fucking Chemo. You got one of my previous messages. If I said "Fuck it I quit." Then I'd be a selfish for abusing and ignoring what I still have.
And that's it, then. I respect your decision to push on.
39903
« on: April 22, 2015, 07:00:27 PM »
Oh my God he's back.
gOD's not real, stop shitting up this thread.
happy birthday m8
39904
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:58:17 PM »
It was an example. Jesus you're boring. I'm boring, because I don't enjoy playing boring games. Gotcha.
39905
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:55:56 PM »
Because perhaps while he likes playing Skyrim, he wants to tweak it so it doesn't become repetitive, or see what the modding community has in store, i.e. quests, Loch Wraith form, etc. Personally, I would recommend to stop playing Skyrim, because it's bad.
39906
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:54:50 PM »
I like the original game Obviously you don't. If you want to see it improved, why not just wait for the sequel? And if there's no sequel, or if the sequel sucks, then tough shit? >opinions Exactly.
39907
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:49:43 PM »
Why would I do that when the dev gives me the tools and support to change their game to play and look the way I want it to? Why would you do that when you could play a different game instead, so you don't get bored? Modding also extends a games life time way past what it would originally be and helps support the devs. The Imperial Civil War mod team essentially gave us Empire at War 2 for example and it came at no extra cost to those who already owned the base game and its expansion. So they gave you a shitty RTS game. Great.
39908
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:43:21 PM »
BTFO Standards for "btfo" are so low here. Let us now discuss how much ass Dr. Mentalist kicked in this thread. Exactly zero ass.
39909
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:41:35 PM »
A logical statement by tenuous means, sure. You've yet to demonstrate how it is tenuous. Just like literally everyone I've ever discussed this subject with. "Humans need to exist because _________________." Fill in the blank. Make whatever analogies you please but choosing absurd ones or incomparable ones doesn't help your argument as much as you think it does. The analogy was neither absurd, nor was it incomparable. They were perfectly equatable. That fact that you think that's what I'm getting at is rather amusing, my point was that you drew a silly analogy when a more suitable one would have sufficed instead of something that's bordering on an appeal to emotions. >a more suitable one Like what. What better example could I have possibly given other than slavery. One of the biggest progressive movements in history compared with an even more ambitious progressive movement (the voluntary extinction of the human race). There is nothing quite like a movement like that, so I went with the closest possible thing. But apparently you have more suitable examples. No fucking shit, talk about preaching to the choir there. People who make the decision to end their lives are either A) Mentally Ill or B) Have a set of life circumstances that causes them to make said decision, either to escape shame or debt or whatever myriad cause it can be. Or because they don't want to live anymore. You forgot that really basic part that no one else would have ever missed. My point there was that no person of sound mind is going to want to kill themselves simply because they hate the fact that they were born, if they do then there is something wrong with their psychology and they need treatment. Why? Why must you force people to continue living if they don't want to? People who wish to end their lives must be of a sound mind and not afflicted with delusions or mental illness. Again, why? Who cares? Hating the idea that they were born without consent isn't sufficient grounds to end your life unless they have another affliction that is tainting their mind. Totalitarian. Fascist. No, if I want to die, it shouldn't matter what my circumstances are. They're my business. If someone doesn't like it, tough. It's my life. I didn't choose to be born, and it's completely rational for someone to be upset about that. So if they want to kill themselves, give them the legal precedent to do so. By the way, you look extremely disingenuous when you say stuff like this when just earlier, you were saying shit like, "If you want to kill yourself, go right ahead." But when it comes to giving people a fair chance to do that legally, you're against it. Hypocrite. Liar. Nice to see your reading comprehension goes down as your blood pressure goes up. To spell it out, read the above again. I did. Nothing changed. It's not a matter of my reading comprehension. It's a matter of you being inarticulate. Oh, and I'd just like to thank you, Sandtrap, for not only having the patience to take a discussion like this seriously, but for presenting a wonderful example of how to converse with me. Not through slander or insults, but through rational insight. Thank you for that.
The irony is delicious
There is nothing ironic about it. You insulted me, so I insulted you back. That's how it works. Sandtrap did not ever insult me, so I never insulted him. You act like there is something I need to get over here There very much is. Again with the platinum mad, this is really rather tiresome. I meant every last thing that I said. Once again getting too wound up over some simple questions, the purpose isn't to determine whether you believe what you spout which you clearly do, but to follow through with the logic of whether you question your own beliefs, which thankfully you claim to do so. I don't question my beliefs. I question other people about my beliefs. Again, I wouldn't subscribe to a philosophy that I didn't personally feel was logically sound. Even a little bit. The instant it starts seeming like bullshit, the instant I drop it from my mind, or at least, make some subtle alteration/variation of it. And thus far, no people have convinced me that having children isn't wrong. Zero. Anyway, good lord you get so emotional over a simple discussion on a forum. The question of whether or not we should continue to exist is kinda the most important question EVER. You can't afford to be wrong. And if you are wrong, you should be treated harshly. Once more for highlighting it Hypocrisy stage 1 by the way, way to blame me for bringing the subject up when it actually wasn't me at all
i stated my opinion on the subject, which indeed was rooted in my philosophy, because why the fuck wouldn't it be
and then people started asking me questions about it
so i answered them
which sort of requires that i bring up anti-natalism
you're basically telling me that i should have never stated my opinion in this thread
to which i say, go fuck yourself, you totalitarian piece of shit
Hypocrisy stage 2 Oh, and I'd just like to thank you, Sandtrap, for not only having the patience to take a discussion like this seriously, but for presenting a wonderful example of how to converse with me. Not through slander or insults, but through rational insight. Thank you for that.
Zero hypocrisy. My original query with you was regarding your apparently dour view of the lives of the disabled to which you of course started on about anti-natalism, hence this little chitchat. Yeah, because recognizing that having a disability would suck is such a dour outlook.
39910
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:21:06 PM »
Here we go with the pointless, non-contributing, shit-stirring "here we go" posts.
39911
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:18:44 PM »
Or, you could play a different game.
That also implies that most people mod games as soon as vanilla gets stale, and not before they even beat the damn game.
Which is so unbelievably stupid.
39912
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:18:19 PM »
In the immortal words of Harry S Plinkett:
"He wasn't seduced by the Dark Side, HE WAS FUCKING TRICKED."
Those pretty much mean the same thing, though.
39913
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:17:36 PM »
anyone with half a brain could pick that out and say "uhhhh you what now?" but nope. not anakin. Do you realize how easy that is to say as an audience member? Seems like you've been watching too much Mr. Plinkett. basically, i was expecting anakin to turn to the dark side for some extremely intimate, nuanced, morally-grey reasons. but no. its flat out selfishness, naivete, and stupidity that turns him. Who cares? This doesn't make me enjoy the film any less.
39914
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:13:19 PM »
And no, modded Skyrim isn't Skyrim anymore. It's "modded Skyrim".
That's the point.
39915
« on: April 22, 2015, 06:12:08 PM »
Honestly, whoever opposes modding is either an idiot, a troll or a copyright lawyer on steroids.
Or a rational individual who respects art rather than tarnishes it. Of course modding is terrible and devs that support it don't know what artistic integrity is though. Correct. And your post only proves my point.
39916
« on: April 20, 2015, 02:50:52 PM »
i can, though i learned a lot later than most people, because i've never actually needed to swim in my entire life, and i most likely never will
39917
« on: April 20, 2015, 02:45:40 PM »
Oh, and I'd just like to thank you, Sandtrap, for not only having the patience to take a discussion like this seriously, but for presenting a wonderful example of how to converse with me. Not through slander or insults, but through rational insight. Thank you for that.
39918
« on: April 20, 2015, 02:40:12 PM »
You are absolutely right. There is a cost to everything. Which again, comes back to universal functions. In order to understand happiness, you have to understand misery. The two need each other to function properly. Let's be really broad here, and lump anything vaguely associated with negative and positive human emotions into just these.
You're living in, arguably, an environment that you enjoy. It could be called your version of paradise. You sit on the beach all day, sloth around, and just take it easy. All of a sudden, out of that happiness, you'll grow restless. Anxious. You'll want to move, or do something. Out of that happiness you'll start to feel a little miserable from all the stagnation. Well, not to be pedantic, but that wouldn't be my paradise, then, would it? In my paradise, not only would it be sublime perfection, but it would be just that. Sublime perfection. You wouldn't get weary of the perfection, because that would be imperfect. That's the ideal world I try to illustrate. My ideal world is not bounded by the hedonistic treadmill, because the hedonistic treadmill is, by its very nature, a flawed concept. See what I mean? Anti-natalism is the rejection of the reality we live in. I don't accept this reality that contains so much of which I despise, and I hate how the negative needs to exist for there to be any notion of positive. If I could bend reality to my will, I would make it so everything would be positive, always. I would eliminate boredom and malaise. So, no, I'm not disgusted by it because I understand the nature of it. Our universe operates that way on every level. There's no escape even if you wanted to because we're bound by the laws of our reality. You realize that right? Of course. But at the same time, that's sort of false. Let's say the human race goes extinct. There's no more people to suffer. That can only be a good thing. You might say that that seems kind of empty and sad, but look at it this way. Take Mars. There are no life forms on Mars. We don't weep over this fact, do we? Does anyone honestly care that there's no life on Mars, or any other planets in the solar system? Not really. Especially not the universe. The universe couldn't be any more indifferent. The universe does not weep over the fact that there's no life on Mars, so it wouldn't weep if there was no life on Earth, either. While suffering is bad, and pleasure is indeed good, the absence of suffering is also good. The absence of pleasure? That's not bad. Not necessarily. This is called Benatar's asymmetry, and it's one of the best anti-natalist ideas written in print, in his book, Better Never To Have Been. It's a dry-ass read, however. I don't recommend it. But the asymmetry argument is a wonderful contribution. I think we've similar thought processes. I think we've similar experiences. And yet here's the two of us. Easily, our respective stances on things are fundamental opposites. Opposing forces and ideals on either side of a scale. What you haven't really done so far, however, is attack the central argument of my philosophy. Obviously, you're not an anti-natalist, so you believe that it's okay to have kids. I mean, there really is no in-between, neutral position, is there? Either it's okay to have kids, or it's not. Being indifferent is like being for it. What I'd like to see from you is an attempt to justify childbirth. Why should the species to continue? What great purpose do we still need to fulfill here on Earth? And why can't that purpose be to quietly subside? So, it all comes down to the simple end. You can't have one without the other. That's life. That's the universe. You take the best you can from it and try to make the best. Pain's just an obstacle in the way. It's not pleasant. Never will be.
But it can only affect you for so long until you choose not to let it and move on.
As I said. I think you'd be a riot to sit down and have a coffee with.
Eh... Maybe if it's decaff.
39919
« on: April 20, 2015, 01:40:08 PM »
LOOOOOOL SHIT
IF YOU EVER FELL IN AN POOL OR SOMETHING YOU'D BE LIKE "SHIT NIGGA SOMEONE HELP ME I CANT SWIM"
did you literally miss the first post in the thread that states that i know how to swim now because that post is five or six fucking years old
39920
« on: April 20, 2015, 01:37:58 PM »
by the way, way to blame me for bringing the subject up when it actually wasn't me at all i stated my opinion on the subject, which indeed was rooted in my philosophy, because why the fuck wouldn't it be and then people started asking me questions about it so i answered them which sort of requires that i bring up anti-natalism you're basically telling me that i should have never stated my opinion in this thread to which i say, go fuck yourself, you totalitarian piece of shit
39921
« on: April 20, 2015, 01:35:59 PM »
to be fair, some might argue that abortions are genocidal by nature
39922
« on: April 20, 2015, 01:28:19 PM »
So are you saying your opinion on life in general is different in some way? Or are you just assuming that my opinion on life only extends to myself? You can't have it both ways there.
For one, my opinions on how I live my life vary significantly from how I view life in general or the lives of others. Same here. This is the philosophy. It's not a discussion of our individual lives. That's anecdotal and generally useless. The philosophy is about the human condition as a whole. It's not a personal decision not to have kids--it's the logical statement that having children is wrong. Of course because the idea that an entire species will voluntarily wipe itself out is equatable to the prospect of treating all men equally. http://sep7agon.net/index.php?topic=34821.0Yes, it is equatable. PERFECTLY equatable. But only in the sense that they both represent a VAST and controversial outlook on life. Yes, the idea of freeing the slaves used to be extremely controversial. Just as the notion of voluntary human extinction is today. The fact that you think I'm trying to say that slavery = natalism is so obnoxiously fucking stupid. Imposing something that can be taken away easily is hardly that great of an imposition, if someone grows up to find themselves wishing they were never born and that said thoughts aren't simply the result of mental illness then they can always find a way to exit this plane of existence. Fuck. You. I've had this fucking argument so many goddamn times, and you're going to pull this WEAK shit. No, suicide is not an easy option, you dumb CUNT. By the time people can even make the rational decision to kill themselves, they've already likely grown highly attached to everyone in their lives, and even though they want to kill themselves, now they have a ton of pressure to live, simply because it would be a goddamn tragedy. It would fuck up the lives of everyone who cared about them. So no, it's not an easy fucking option. Not to mention, euthanasia is ILLEGAL basically everywhere. You can't just walk into a clinic and ask for suicide pills, it doesn't fucking work like that. People resort to gruesome, grotesque, painful, inhumane methods when they could instead opt for a graceful exit. Except the state won't allow for it. So we have all these fucking hoops we have to jump over. And for you to be this moderator of a forum, standing above everyone else, being this "model citizen" of the forum, and this is the shit you SPEW on the fucking Internet? "Don't like life? Just kill yourself. It's that easy." Fuck you, you glib cunt. FUCK you. Impose, read the second definition. A clear discussion about antinatalism is fine, it's whenever you drag it up in unrelated topics that it becomes tiresome. That is banging on about it. Abortion is huge. Of COURSE my CORE FUCKING PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF is going to be brought up. Get the FUCK over it. Well duh, it doesn't shove you back up into your mother's womb And unless it does that, suicide isn't a good option. It doesn't solve the problem. At all. At. All. A slave who commits suicide will never end slavery. You can't end slavery if you're fucking DEAD. It's not slander, it's an accurate label. Then "worthless cunt" would be an accurate label for you. A set of beliefs that is firmly entrenched in an individual who will not accept any flaws pointed out or concede them, you don't believe they are flaws so you don't see them as flaws. That's dogmatic.
There is a nice easy litmus test for this though.
1. Do you think your philosophy is correct?
2. Why do you think it is correct?
3. Do you think it could be wrong?
4. If not, why not? 1. Yes, obviously. I wouldn't fucking believe in it if I thought it was wrong, would I? Could you be more inarticulate? 2. Because I have been presented with no better alternatives. 3. It's possible. Hence why I have discussions. 4. If I didn't think I could be wrong, I would never have discussions about it. Why would I waste time trying to prove people wrong if I knew that I was right?
39923
« on: April 20, 2015, 11:03:57 AM »
From your perspective, and as you've already said ' I don't give a fuck about what your own personal opinion on life is.' so why on earth should anyone give a fuck about yours? Wrong. I don't give a fuck about what your own personal opinion on your life is. People will often conflate their own opinion on their own life with their opinion on life in general, and that's bad. Because not everyone lives your life. Which is my argument. People do things I find abhorrent every day, do I whop out the robes and start preaching about the evils of their actions? Nope, because it's a waste of time for all involved. Do you think you'll ever have the slightest chance in hell of convincing the human race to voluntarily wipe itself out when that runs against some of the most basic biological functions of a living thing? Because I really do admire that naivety. I'm sure there was a time where people thought the abolition of slavery was a very idealistic prospect as well, and look where we're at now. You have no point. Oh my that's quite amusing, you go from me saying loophole to equating that with rape and murder.
Imposing things on others is against anti-natalist ideology right? No. Imposing LIFE on others is against anti-natalist ideology. The only thing stated in the anti-natalist doctrine is don't have fucking kids. That's it. Do I believe in a consent-based morality as well? Yes. But that's a much more nebulous philosophy. So why do you keep on seeking to impose your philosophy on others, not at gun point but relentless carping on about it is a form of imposition because people who clearly don't want to hear it for the 300th time in a row are stuck with the choice of either A) Not bothering to continue the conversation or B) Putting up with yet another anti-natalist soapbox. Because I'm not imposing my philosophy on anybody. You don't know what "impose" means, either. If I were imposing anti-natalism, I wouldn't be having the discussion with people. I'd be telling people that they're wrong, just wrong, without posing any rational argument. I'd probably support a cause to brainwash every human being involuntarily into becoming an antinatalist for the greater good. But that's not what I'm doing. I'm not imposing anything. If you aren't interested in having the discussion, then don't have the discussion. You can't say the same thing about life. Suicide doesn't literally undo your birth. And as for the dogma, your rigid adherence to anti-natalism and refusal to accept any flaws in the ideology (from what I have seen) would count as dogma. I have never refused to accept any flaws in the ideology, because I have yet to be presented with any flaws. You can accuse me of being closed-minded, but to label it a dogma with no fundamental basis for that claim is just slander.
39924
« on: April 20, 2015, 09:23:28 AM »
Accidents can literally happen doing anything at any time. Unless you never leave a padded room, you'll have accidents.
i'm sorry you live a life of constant fuck-ups, but i don't
39925
« on: April 20, 2015, 09:00:33 AM »
There is no loophole. What tangible HARM am I levying on to youu by discussing my personal beliefs with you? In what way is that akin to people raping and murdering people every single goddamn motherfucking day? Jesus fucking Christ. Fuck you.
39926
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:58:45 AM »
Well duh, water is wet after all.
This is also common knowledge, and probably part of why nobody seems to take your anti-natalism dogma seriously. Not imposing it on anyone else would most likely include not banging on about it constantly, but I'm sure you can find a loophole that means it's fine to spread it as far and wide as possible.
You don't know what a dogma is if you think anti-natalism is dogma. Not "banging on about it constantly" would be absolutely fucking retarded. I live in a society where 99.99% of people are WRONG from my perspective, and they are doing things that I find ethically ABHORRENT. Why the fuck wouldn't I "bang on" about it? You're a jackass.
39927
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:56:33 AM »
Where were you trying to go with that?
Accidentss aren't something you intentionally get into or avoid by definition.
and if you're smart you will take measures to prevent them did you know that that's possible
39928
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:53:28 AM »
>being scared of liquid water
lol
as opposed to being afraid of solid water? yeah i think liquid water is a lot scarier
39929
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:52:43 AM »
You can't remove human error from a human. because all humans are capable of doing is fucking up, right no one has ever done anything perfectly, ever
39930
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:46:50 AM »
but... that's not how accidents wotk
You don't purposefully get into them. you don't purposefully make mistakes, either that doesn't mean it's okay to make big mistakes if you don't know how to swim, i'd imagine you'd be EXTRA careful about situations involving bodies of water
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