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39511
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:49:41 PM »
2. So a world with better resources to help people with their ailments means we shouldn't have children. K. I don't think I said anything remotely similar to that. You don't need to have kids to make the world a better place. You just don't. 3. Please don't tell me that I don't know how shitty life can get. But you don't. Clearly, if you're still smiling at the end of the day, you don't know. However, they want to start a family. Either that or have a need to continue their family tree, idk ) "Wanting to start a family" and "continuing their family tree" are not good enough reasons to impose life on children. Far from it. Those are selfish reasons. 5. Of course you can't escape bigotry. Like I said, it will always exist. But now they're just a small, but very loud minority. They can't do shit . And yet countless minorities are often the brunt of all sorts of abuse. Racial profiling is still extremely prevalent in modern society, and the reason is because people are fucking racist. Don't tell me they can't do shit, because they can.
39512
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:26:13 PM »
>using chans >at all
this was amusing though
39513
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:16:47 PM »
Literally millions.
39514
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:10:32 PM »
1. Stats pls http://www.thekimfoundation.org/html/about_mental_ill/statistics.htmlThis is common knowledge, by the way. This shouldn't be news to you. 3. Well with science and medicine/technology advancing, we may yet get to see some form of cute for cancer, but for now we do have the technology and hemp oils to help relieve the battles with cancer. Which doesn't justify imposing life on children. I'm going through life fine. I don't care. It's not about you. It's about the future generations who will be born as a result of ignorant stupidity. Just because you think you're "going through life fine" (you're probably a 20-something, if that, so you know absolutely nothing about how shitty life can really get), doesn't give you the right to impose it on anybody else. 4. That's why we have ways for people to try and get themselves out of poverty They shouldn't be having children if they're in poverty to BEGIN WITH. No fucking shit. 5. Society is progressing towards being more tolerant of homosexuals Slowly. Imagine this: There are still racists in America. People who want the South to "rise again". They exist. The KKK is still in formation, as much of a joke as they are. You can't escape bigotry.
39515
« on: April 28, 2015, 12:04:02 PM »
I'm just going to cut this down a bit, because I don't really feel inclined to spend more time over nitpicking. Call it whatever you like, I really just don't care for another round of quote pyramids over the same old shit. I'll take it as a concession. You said a lot of really fucking dumb shit, and frankly, I would be embarrassed to be you. To say that I can't cite "the infirm" as evidence to suggest that life is serious shit, and that you probably don't have any right to impose it on anybody, just because you think that's "scummy" for some invisible reason, is absolutely preposterous. I wouldn't wanna have to sit there and defend myself either, if I had said something that stupid. The part I want to address more clearly is regarding mental illness, mostly because that's one of the few things in this discussion I genuinely care about as opposed to just kill time discussing. Wonderful, because it's actually the part of the discussion that is not only in my least interest, it's also the furthest from the original topic. At least with anti-natalism, I could get away with it, but this is just a little bit too far gone, don't you think, Mr. Mod? As it has been pointed out, there are people who wish to die that are not mentally ill. Typically that would include terminally ill patients, in countries where euthanasia is legal that is usually how it works. Yeah, in the four countries where it's legal. Let's not act like it's this widespread thing, because it's not. The reason that people who are not of a sound mind, in the medical/legal sense, are not allowed to be euthanised is because they are not making an informed choice - their mental illness is affecting their judgement and so any choice over their own mortality is suspended until they are shown to be healthy again. Then when they are treated/cured, if they still wished to die it would be more likely to proceed. If we euthanized someone whose judgement was affected by the disease, I really don't think it would be that big of a tragedy. Especially because most people with terminal illnesses are essentially at the end of their lives anyway. They've probably had it. So to have this mommy state kind of thing where the mommy state is gonna tell you that your life is worth prolonging doesn't sound very appealing to me. The part where you said that MHCs have an evil responsibility though, you think that preventing harm Preventing harm? Are you familiar with the adage, "death heals all wounds"? I really don't see how prolonging one's suffering, which is essentially these people's job, is, in any way, preventing harm. those around them Look, even if one of my loved ones honestly and genuinely wanted to die, do you think I'd try to stand in their way? Well, maybe. But your choice to die should be no one's business but your own. It would be rather selfish of me to say that my loved ones have to live to sate my interests, because I want to have them around. That's a little bit selfish. People who are in danger of harming others or themselves as a result of hallucinations, delusions, paranoia And this has anything to do with the right to die? No, obviously, I only think part of what they do is evil. Making decisions for other people without their say-so tends to be pretty evil. Do most people want to live? Yeah. Do most people want to be operated on if they are injured? Yeah. But if there's one person who says he wants to end his life, I say give him that courtesy, regardless of whether he is of "sound mind" or not. And I'm sure there are a lot of people who have said something like that on their death bed, but managed to pull through, and then they looked back and said, "Wow, I must have been crazy for wanting to die." But if you asked them if they'd like to relive that horror? You'd probably get an interesting result. you see cases like the one in London a few months ago where a schizophrenic man stuck a pair of scissors into another man's chest as a result of his delusions. The guy died and the patient is now committed indefinitely, is it evil to force people like him to receive treatment? Bla bla bla. Again, that's not the subject. I don't think I ever said that everything they do is evil.
39516
« on: April 28, 2015, 10:31:37 AM »
tl;dr, don't try and raise a family because you have a small risk of giving your children diseases. 1 in 5. That is COLOSSAL. And it's not JUST diseases, asshole. Everything about life is pretty much just shit. Well shit, thank God we have treatments so they can continue living happy lives if such a thing were to occur. Good luck curing cancer, AIDS, diabetes, elephantiasis, harlequin ichthyosis, etc. etc. etc. And again, that's not even touching upon things that'll ensure your kid's life will suck that aren't diseases. Most children are born in fucking poverty. Some are born homosexual in a culture that fucking HATES homosexuals. The horror just doesn't fucking end at diseases. It just happens to be a very poginant example.
39517
« on: April 28, 2015, 10:02:48 AM »
Those people do not deserve mods No one deserves to have their art pissed on, I agree.
39518
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:40:16 AM »
I'd like to add that wanting to die isn't necessarily tied to mental instability; there are states in the US that allow euthanasia so long as the person is making the decision sound of mind. How would that sort of thing be judged, anyway? Because, in my opinion, nobody is "sound of mind". What does that even mean, realistically?
39519
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:26:41 AM »
I'll go ahead and tie the assisted suicide thing with the abortion thing.
No one actually wants to have an abortion, but you need to have the right to do it. Likewise, no one finds the act of suicide pleasant. You might even say that those who want to kill themselves are mentally ill. But you should still have the right to do it.
39520
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:18:40 AM »
It doesn't convince you so you don't accept it as valid, that doesn't mean it's invalid at all just that you perceive it as such. So what the fuck am I supposed to be like? I don't KNOW too many other anti-natalists, genius, and even if I did, what am I supposed to do? Consult them? I'm not allowed to think for myself? What the FUCK are you trying to say here? You INARTICULATE weasel.
39521
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:13:54 AM »
Her child was a quadriplegic, also seemed to have brain issues, so the child was thrashing his head about, he didn't understand like a normal child would. Okay, yeah, I don't think you did anything wrong. Stories like this are kind of sketchy, though, just because I'm only getting one side of it, but chances are, given your customer's reaction, I wouldn't have gotten a coherent or unbiased one on her end, either...
39522
« on: April 28, 2015, 09:12:29 AM »
Because we haven't created a successor race yet, evolution is about achieving greater and greater forms so for the human race - one of the most promising results of evolution so far, you know with sentience and all that - to wipe itself out without at least leaving a positive legacy in the universe is selfish to the other beings that live in it. And you accuse me of "mental gymnastics"... Jesus Christ. How could it possibly be selfish to run out the human race voluntarily? What's selfish is to impose life for your bizarre (and futile) ideal of "creating the ultimate race". Because we're going to fail. Hell just Earth as an example, what kind of species rapes the bejeesus out of the planet and then decides to wipe itself out without cleaning up it's mess. That's my argument, though. Anti-natalism is the mop that will clean up the final mess on planet Earth. Really, I'm also an efilist--I don't just think humans should go extinct. I think all life should go extinct. I'm not here to tell you how we could do that--I'm just trying to spread the idea and let people know that it's a good idea. If all life goes extinct, it doesn't matter what we leave behind. There's no one left to care. I've said for a while now, if humanity can create a race of sentient machines to look after planets in a far better manner than we do then we can all die out and I wouldn't really care. Completing that goal isn't likely to happen anytime soon, so prematurely encouraging extinction is wrong. It's not likely to happen any time ever. Or because they don't want to live anymore. You forgot that really basic part that no one else would have ever missed. Which falls under mental illness.
According to...? Whoever it is, they're wrong. And even if they're right, who cares? M.Why? Why must you force people to continue living if they don't want to? Because it is immoral to let someone die when they can be treated, forcing people to continue living is exactly what A&E do for attempted suicides or what sectioning does to the severely disturbed who frequently make attempts on their own life. A treatable mental illness causes them to wish to die/kill themselves, so just standing idly by and letting people jump/overdose/slice down the road rather than getting them the therapy that treats that mindset is wrong. Why? You just restated your shitty point. If someone wants to die, why is it wrong to let them die? Because you think living is so much cooler? Why should they give a fuck about what you think? Someone who has a mental illness is not in the right state of mind to be making decisions over their own mortality, Who. Cares. Why does that matter. The illness can be treated and then the wish to die has disappeared/receded, mental illness is not a terminal disease and people should not be dying because of it. You can make these bogus arguments (you're pretending as though the only people who want to die are ones who are already severely ill, which is false), but it has nothing to do with our rights. Regardless of these shitty emotional appeals you're making, you should still have the right to kill yourself. The families of the patient care, their friends and wider social circles. Their doctors and shrinks care too, letting someone kill themselves because you didn't give them the necessary treatment is one of the worst possible failings of a medical professional. Unless they want to die. In which case, it's completely justified. If someone is suffering, and they don't want to live anymore, end it. Thank you. And you wonder why I lash out and get fucking pissed off at you. What you're saying is evil. E-V-I-L Wrong, it does matter. It's the responsibility of MHC workers to make sure that people afflicted with something like depression don't simply kill themselves Then they have an evil responsibility. Which in my book covers 99.99% of people with that sort of mindset, leaving room for the abnormals as always but people who want to die are either mentally ill or are trying to escape something like shame/restoring their honour etc. Someone who wishes they were never born and genuinely wants to die is mentally ill. 1. No they're not. 2. Even if they are, it doesn't matter. It will never matter. People who want to die should have the right to die. It makes perfect sense that someone might be dissatisfied with the fact that they were forced into life by two fucktards. At times, sure. I'm not a perfect linguistic genius, but I'd say it's better than spamming cUNT whenever you run into an argument. Good thing I haven't done that. Which leaves you being incredibly inarticulate. lol Nice refutation. So you were actually butthurt over this? Nice. Glad to know my reports of your posts have been completely justified. Piece of shit. I wonder why that is then, because I've seen plenty of people present sound arguments to you in the past and they all got the same dismissals. Maybe because they're FUCKING WRONG. If someone is wrong, you argue with them. I'm not going to fucking give up my philosophy just because a group of dumbfucks think I'm wrong. No, I think you're wrong, and I don't think I've received a single sound argument yet. Not a single person has been able to adequately answer the question, "why should the human race continue"? And you had one of the shittiest answers yet. And with people who live in the real world, existential angst tends to rank pretty low on their list of priorities. I'm pretty sure people can afford to be wrong over that, because when it's compared to things like securing a future for their families or their own success in life people will not really give a shit about whether their own existence is morally justifiable or if having children and grandchildren is an affront to one particular type of philosophy. Which makes them all fucktards. Yes, it does. Zero hypocrisy. lol, sure.
ZERO hypocrisy. You insulted me first. You should be banned. why highlight the disabled to make your point? BECAUSE ONE IN FIVE PEOPLE HAS SOME TYPE OF DEBILITY. THAT'S REALITY.I'm obviously going to bring up examples of reality that might OFFEND you, because they're REALITY. This should DETER you from ever wanting to have children, because you shouldn't want to impose CANCER, or anything else that's going to make them either an intense sufferer, or a complete loser for the rest of their lives. You SHOULDN'T want to impose that on ANYBODY. Justifying your ideology by using the infirm as a reason not to 'risk' having children is just downright scummy. I really don't fucking see how. Kindly demonstrate how illustrating a concept of reality is "scummy". PEOPLE ARE BORN WITH CRIPPLING DISEASES. Would you appreciate being born with a crippling fucking disease? I don't fucking think so. Let me take all of your money and gamble it away, and see how you like it.
39523
« on: April 28, 2015, 08:44:05 AM »
I don't think this goes in Serious, though.
39524
« on: April 28, 2015, 08:43:18 AM »
What's her malfunction?
lol
39525
« on: April 27, 2015, 11:02:17 PM »
right
and i know she's not gonna try and say that skin color should make any real difference, either (because.. that would be racism) but that's basically the type of mindset that she's defending, which is... kinda not right
39526
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:56:56 PM »
social aspects of race
AKA the only aspects that matter
39527
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:52:43 PM »
like, whether it's in our DNA or not, it's a social construct
you bring up the ethnicity stuff, which only muddies the water, because it's such a poorly defined term--and then you state that race is institutionalized (which is just another way of saying that it's socially constructed without having to say it outright), because it results in racial profiling and other nonsense. people to this day are judged in all sorts of ways (good or bad) based on their race alone, and you concede that, yet you won't admit that it's a social construct
so like where ARE you on this issue?? lol
39528
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:44:01 PM »
And he's saying what I am. Correlation of violence to blacks in America is skewed in a way that negatively reflects on the individual because of their skin instead of their culture. This leads to the assumption that someone from Compton will act the same as someone from Johanessburg. i mean, i feel like i know what you're gonna say, but keep in mind what you just said here "negatively reflects on the individual because of their skinnot their culture" in other words, race > ethnicity you'd think if people accepted that race is a social construct, that kind of shit wouldn't happen, would it that's precisely my argument
39529
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:28:50 PM »
On his census card, he would put "caucasian" or "African american". There isn't a mixed category. exactlythat doesn't just shatter that whole premise of "you can only be one race"? because clearly, if he can pick and choose, that's just... blatantly false a social construct And he's saying what I am. Correlation of violence to blacks in America is skewed in a way that negatively reflects on the individual because of their skin instead of their culture. This leads to the assumption that someone from Compton will act the same as someone from Johanessburg. okay ...so what's your disagreement again? i feel like we're on the same wavelength, but you're still trying to argue, somehow, that race isn't socially constructed, because... "hereditary commonality," whatever that means i don't think it means anything, especially not with regards to sociology
39530
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:19:25 PM »
One could argue that they're both illusory and imagined. But racial categories have had a much more concrete impact on peoples' lives, because they've been used to discriminate and to distribute resources unequally and set up different standards for protection under law. but that still means that they're "illusory and imagined"--it doesn't matter that, historically, we've treated them as if they're real because they're not they're not real because we've thought so in the past--that's just silly
39531
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:15:35 PM »
I think the most powerful argument about the differentiation between race and ethnicity is that race becomes institutionalized in a way that has profound social consequences on the members of different groups. these "profound social consequences" are what you might call the constructs that i'm saying don't actually exist so while he defines ethnicity and race as separate, he does so in a way that actually supports my argument
39532
« on: April 27, 2015, 10:13:02 PM »
Here's a PBS article with experts in the field explaining the differences. First of all, race is primarily unitary. You can only have one race, while you can claim multiple ethnic affiliations. You can identify ethnically as Irish and Polish, but you have to be essentially either black or white. so what is this guy saying you can't be half-black, or mixed race? does he know a guy called barack obama? the rest of what he said seemed sound, but he prefaced it with a bunch of bullshit let's try the next guy I think the most powerful argument about the differentiation between race and ethnicity is that race becomes institutionalized in a way that has profound social consequences on the members of different groups. well, there you go this guy pretty much made my argument for me and the next guy agrees with him, too
39533
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:56:27 PM »
we're getting into semantics again, but i mean, you seem quite sure about yourself
39534
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:55:31 PM »
That was ethnicity I was just describing, Verb.
Race = Genetics Ethnicity = Genetics + Culture
Ethnicity is impacted by social expectations/perceptions. Race isn't.
says who, exactly? i would argue, as i stated earlier, that race includes culture as well like... why can't it
39535
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:43:06 PM »
"Black" being used interchangeably with African American (ethnicity).
Hint: Blacks in America do not have the same culture as blacks in the UK, African countries, Japan, etc. well yeah, but to me, that only further shows that it's a social construct... you'd rather just call it ethnicity, but i'll go ahead and take it one step further
39536
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:39:49 PM »
People seem to be assuming that just because a race has a larger probability of receiving some disease, that it is due to some level of "racial traits"rather than simply being...you know, a correlation.
Take sickle cell anemia for example. To say it's just a "black person disease" is wrong, because we know that race isn't specifically tied to skin color; a biracial person that physically appears to be one or the other (I.E., Barack Obama appears to be black despite being biracial) could very well be susceptible to certain medical or genetic conditions because of their genotype. Sickle cell anemia in Africans evolved as a way to combat Malaria, which is why black people are more prone to having it. So no, it's not at all just a mere correlation, it's an actual trait of the race, and it's relevant outside of the limited scope of society.
i just said thaaaaaaaat
39537
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:38:46 PM »
That's more along the lines of ethnicity, though. well again, i barely even understand the difference, and even then, i'd probably just argue that it's a bit of a semantic one from what i do know about it Even then it's based on misconceptions; -snip- that's what i'm saying so the difference lies in our definitions in race and ethnicity i was under the impression that they're basically the same exact thing, with some... nebulous differences like... cultural shit but i mean, discussion of race is ALSO a discussion of culture you'll often hear terms like "black culture" tossed around they're the same
39538
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:22:44 PM »
not to mention, "black people are more likely to commit a crime"
yeah, maybe statistically but not genetically
as cindy said, correlation =/= causation that's all we're saying
39539
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:20:23 PM »
"hereditary commonality" is awfully vague by the way
you can argue that skin color, hair texture, etc. etc. are what "separates" the races, but i mean, no one's arguing about that stuff--that's not what makes a social construct
what makes a social construct is when you start saying shit like, "he's yellow, so he's just inherently better at math than us" or, "he's black, so he can run faster than us"
those are the socially constructed myths that are being refuted
39540
« on: April 27, 2015, 09:15:05 PM »
If you're arguing that it stems from ancestors... you aren't really refuting anything here. All I said is that races aren't a social construct because it's defined by hereditary commonality. well, it obviously stems from ancestors--that's the whole idea behind genetics and hereditary traits like sickle cell and such you brought up the sickle cell thing and implied that it had anything to do with race, so i tackled that
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