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39031
Serious / Re: Addiction
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:06:54 PM »
I'm sure most of you are addicted to your phones, as well.

39032
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:02:11 PM »
Id love to hear what she thinks about Lightning.

Probably dismisses every good point about her because shes showing some legs lol
Rarely does she ever dismiss the good points, though. In the video I posted, she described Jade's top as "silly", so as to be impractical (and a mild example of sexualization, because it displays her midriff), but proceeded to spend the rest of the video describing her good qualities. That's two seconds of criticism for another eleven minutes of praise.

Feminists do not have the one-track minds you seem to think they have.

39033
Serious / Re: Addiction
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:58:16 PM »
The main reason most people aren't vegans is because they are psychologically addicted to meat.

I went there.

39034
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:55:17 PM »
Apparently sidekicks in most games serve as nothing more than tools to encourage you and advance plot.

Okay then.
Yeah, I would say so. I would say that's the primary function of a "sidekick" in general. The word doesn't even really have a good connotation.

39035
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:52:42 PM »
Sory but I'm not giving her Ad revenue.
She doesn't put ads on her videos, though.

Also.
OffTopic I just want to appologise for acting like a cunt to you in the past. I disagree with just about all of your veiwpoints. I dont think I will ever agree with them, but that does not justify my acting like a prick. I do think you're a pretty cool guy when you're discusssing Nintendo related stuff or on the very rare occasion when you crack a joke.
Well, thank you. That actually means a lot.

39036
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:40:29 PM »
Honest question. Do you post these to intentional start a shitstorm, because you know that's all this will result in, right?
I don't think the last one ended in a shitstorm. Maybe it did. I don't remember. But I think most people just let it die.

If you actually watch the damn video, though, I really don't see how anything she's saying could be considered objectionable in any way. Then again, I do identify as a feminist, so I guess I'm biased.

39037
Gaming / Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:29:57 PM »
TRIGGER WARNING:
This video contains feminism. If you are a small-minded bigot/misogynist, proceed with caution.

YouTube
Transcript
Jade – Positive Female Character Transcript

Jade: My name is Jade. And I haven’t the foggiest how we’re gonna get out of here.

Jade is the protagonist of the 2003 third-person action adventure game Beyond Good & Evil. She’s a brave photojournalist who sets out to uncover a conspiracy between alien invaders and her own corrupt government.

Jade: They’re coming! Quick, Venn, jump up!

We start getting a sense of who Jade is from the moment we see her, and refreshingly…

Jade: Go tell Pey’j! I’ll take care of the shield.

…she actually looks the part of the active, practical young woman of color who has a job to do.

Computer 1: Shield activated.

We learn about who characters are not just from the things they say and do, but also from how they look: visual design is an important way for game designers to communicate information at a glance about a character’s experience and personality traits. Sadly, women in games are often depicted in wildly impractical, sexualized clothing designed to make them appealing to straight male players. But Jade isn’t designed to fulfill someone else’s fantasy. The midriff top is a little silly, but for the most part, she looks like someone who is dressed to accommodate her own needs. I mean, you don’t get much more practical than cargo pants.

Games often give us heroes who are either fantastically wealthy, like the Bruce Waynes and Lara Crofts of the world, or who at least don’t have practical, everyday concerns about money. But money is not just an abstract concept for Jade. She’s a working class character with real financial struggles. This is established at the very beginning of the game, when we learn that the orphanage’s electricity has been shut off, and Uncle Pey’j’s hovercraft is in dire need of repair.

Computer 1: Shield disabled.
Computer 2: Your Optima account is…

Computer 1: 350

Computer 2: …units short. Your electrical supply has just been blocked.

Jade: You’ve got to be joking!

These are characters who struggle just to make ends meet, and for them, concerns about their economic situation have real implications for their ability to provide for themselves and their adopted family.

Jade: We’re stuck here. No hovercraft, no shield. Optima has cut off the power, the account is empty.

In order to pay the bills, we’re introduced to a mechanic that establishes one of Jade’s creative talents: photography. Throughout the game, she is paid to document and catalogue the diverse animal life on the planet with her camera.

Science Center Director: Hi Jade. I see Secundo already talked to you about the job. The war is taking its toll. We need a complete inventory of all species living on the planet.

Instead of just showing or offhandedly telling us about her skills in cutscenes, the designers have built character development right into the gameplay, giving players a pleasant, nonviolent way of interacting with and appreciating the beauty of the game’s world while simultaneously reinforcing that Jade is a woman of many talents. Edge Magazine insightfully observed that part of what makes Jade so memorable is “the fact that she views this strange world and all of its careworn inhabitants through the lens of a camera, rather than the scope of an assault rifle.”

Pey’j: Hey, Jade! A school of blue scorpion fish!

This not only gives Jade more depth, but also encourages the player to view the lifeforms of Hillys with some measure of respect, rather than seeing them solely as enemies to be destroyed.

Science Center Director: From the same family as the scorpion fish. Very difficult to photograph.

While many games center on so-called “heroes” who are out for personal glory or revenge, Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative establishes Jade’s altruistic desire to achieve social justice. It’s worth noting that Jade avoids falling into the tired cliché of the tough as nails, solve-all-problems-with-violence “strong female character” archetype. Her quest is not about her pain, nor is it about taking satisfaction in exacting violent retribution.

Jade: If there’s a way to stop this war, we can’t let it pass us by.

It’s about protecting her world and the people she cares about, and unlike so many one-dimensional brooding heroes who are characterized by their own suffering, Jade does not wear the mantle of hero like a heavy burden; instead she retains her warmth and humanity over the course of her quest.

Pey’j: Ha ha ha! Not bad for a little girl and an old ham!

Jade: We did it Pey’j! Heh. Not bad for an old fart.

Together with Uncle Pey’j, a mechanically savvy anthropomorphized boar, Jade looks after a group of war-orphaned children, sheltering them in a lighthouse on the mining planet of Hillys.Though Hillys is, on the surface, a colorful and inviting place, not all is well in this world. We learn early on that an alien race has been attacking and abducting residents.

Reporter: Here on Hillys, war has once again reared its ugly head, striking the civilian population. Luckily our elite forces have once again arrived in the nick of time. I’m coming to you live from the southern lighthouse shelter. Here is where some of the children whose parents have been captured by the Dons have been taken in by two devoted and courageous Hillyans. Miss, a word for our listeners…

Jade: Uhh…

Pey’j: Yeah, yeah. Well you guys are not what I call as fast as a speeding bullet. Keep doing nuthin’ and next time, thery’ll be nuthin’ left here to see!

Reporter: Cut!

Recruited by a resistance organization called the IRIS network, Jade uncovers a vast conspiracy between the invading aliens and the government, with the corporate news media complicit in covering up the truth.

Mino: Here’s what we know. The victims are kidnapped by Alpha Section agents. They are then taken to the Nutripills factory. Shuttles are then used to take them to the old slaughterhouses. And from there, they are loaded into military cruisers headed for the moon.

There’s a subtle but subversive political dimension to Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative which highlights the importance of questioning mass media messages and challenging institutions of power that perpetuate injustice.

As a member of a resistance group, Jade uses her talents as a photographer to collect evidence documenting the conspiracy,

Science Center Director: Upper floor? Ok, I see where you’re at. We’ll start the deciphering program.

and her combat skills to help rescue kidnapped members of the IRIS Network. But she rarely goes it alone. Jade starts out the game with Uncle Pey’j by her side, and the way the characters interact makes Pey’j feel more like a partner than a mere sidekick.

In this early scene, Jade is trapped until Pey’j appears, throwing her a staff she uses to free herself and overcome the destructive alien force.

Pey’j: Hang on Jade! I’m coming! Free yourself, Jade. I’ll create a diversion.

It may seem like a minor detail, but the fact that Pey’j tells Jade to free herself, instead of doing it for her, is incredibly important. He assists her but doesn’t rescue her. He knows that even in this situation, she’s far from helpless, and the fact that Pey’j treats her as a capable partner encourages us to see her that way, too.

This moment also evokes a sense of mutual respect and partnership between these two characters, in a way that is all too rare for female characters in gaming.

Eventually, Uncle Pey’j is kidnapped, and Jade is determined to rescue him.

As a quick side note, It’s important to point out that a kidnapped male character saved by a woman and a kidnapped female character saved by a man are not equivalent, because while a damsel in distress reinforces longstanding regressive myths about women as a group being weak or helpless specifically because of their gender, a dude in distress does not reinforce any such ideas about men. For more on the relatively rare dude in distress inversion, see part 3 of my videos on the damsel trope.

Many games present an image of bravery and courage that suggests heroes are fiercely independent, rugged individualists. In those games in which heroes do have sidekicks, those sidekicks often serve as cheerleaders and ego boosters for the player, complimenting them on their skill and accomplishments, or as impediments, preventing them from progressing to a new section until they’ve completed some task. In Beyond Good & Evil, Jade’s sidekicks, Pey’j and later Double H, feel not like cheerleaders or roadblocks but like active companions who want to use their unique skills to assist Jade when they accompany her on a mission.

Pey’j: Ha ha! Say when, Jade! Jet boots attack!

There’s a sense of both good-natured humor and respect written into the banter between Jade and her sidekicks: she’s warm but also assertive, and the tone of their interactions makes it clear that they aren’t designed just to make her or the player feel better.

Pey’j: Ok. We’re going to have to keep on our toes now, Jade.

Jade: Don’t worry, uncle Pey’j. We’ll just take some pictures and get home.

The mechanics aren’t significantly different from those associated with sidekicks in many other games: these characters fight enemies and are attacked by enemies; and often their special abilities, Pey’j’s jet boots and Double H’s bull rush, must be used to advance. But because the writing so effectively creates a sense of respect and camaraderie between Jade and her companions, these relationships become much more than simple gameplay interactions.

Pey’j: Thanks, Jade. I’d’ve ended up on a silver platter with an apple in my mouth if it wasn’t for you.

Jade: Mmmm. Shut up. You’re making me hungry. I’m gonna regret saving you.

They become a vital and memorable part of the experience of playing Beyond Good & Evil, and work to emphasize the game’s themes of friendship and cooperation.

For years there have been rumours and even a teaser trailer about a Beyond Good and Evil 2. I hope this actually happens but whether or not that sequel ever gets made, we definitely need more games with warm, compassionate, multitalented characters who have realistic and relatable concerns, and more narratives in which taking a stand against corrupt systems of power is more important than personal gain or revenge.

The newest installment of Anita Sarkeesian's new series, which I love.

Deal with it.

39038
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:20:17 PM »
Which in turn, the subject is about the treatment of sentient animals, which would also include the poor treatment of humans in cheap labour.
Sure. But I really don't care to discuss that aspect right now. Am I against child labor? Yes. I don't really know how to check if my clothes were made through cheap labor or child labor. I haven't really looked into it, and it's a problem. What else am I supposed to say?

Does it bother you that I just ate a burger and enjoyed every bite?
Not even a little bit. I'm glad that the suffering of the animal you just ate wasn't wasted.

If you want to piss a vegan off, buy a bunch of animal products and then throw them away.

39039
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:12:15 PM »
We're higher up in the food chain, thats just how it is
That's meaningless. Arnold Schwarzenegger has a bigger fist than you, most likely. Does that give him the right to beat the fuck out of you? Might makes right? Does it really?

39040
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:07:30 PM »
So then why'd you bring up humans, this isnt about us.
Yes it is. Veganism is about saving sentient life. Humans are worth no more than an animal. Humans are animals, too.

I'm merely pointing out the double standard that you're setting up. If you're okay with killing animals because death is natural, the same logic should apply to humans. Humans are not special.

39041
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:01:22 PM »
No, it's not a result of evolution or even short-term adaptation. It's largely a result of urbanization and taking territory away from predators, allowing a huge rise in prey-animal population.
Source?

39042
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:00:29 PM »
Death's natural, they just speed it up. Besides the industry here is a lot less abusive.
So let's all just kill each other, then, because death is natural.
Youre good at twisting things arent you
I didn't twist anything--that was your ONE JUSTIFICATION for supporting the industry. "Death is natural." That's EXACTLY what you said.

39043
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:59:53 AM »
So you don't care you might be supporting a company who uses cheap labour? A company that abuses human rights and children to make your clothes?
The subject is veganism.

39044
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:57:41 AM »
Death's natural, they just speed it up. Besides the industry here is a lot less abusive.
So let's all just kill each other, then, because death is natural.

39045
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:55:24 AM »
You support an industry that rips living, oxygen - breathing plants from their roots, forces them through a lot of processses, and send them straight to your dinner plate.

:^)
Except plants don't feel pain. Animals do.
Do you make sure all of your clothes are made in America? All of your chocolate and coffee is fair trade?
I don't give a fuck where my clothes are made, as long as they weren't made from an animal.
I don't drink coffee, and I barely eat chocolate, because so much of it isn't vegan.

Does this have anything to do with veganism? I don't think so.

39046
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:53:40 AM »
National parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.
I'd probably argue that the only reason the deer population, for example, is so high, is because we hunt them. So they breed faster as an evolutionary response. If we stopped hunting them, they wouldn't have any need to breed as fast as they do, would they?

39047
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:51:02 AM »
Wernt you calling people out for making the same kind of argument before?
...Uh. No? When? What the fuck are you talking about?
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We were evolved in a way that we need the nutrients from both plants and animals  to be healthy.
False. We don't need meat anymore. All the nutrients that we get from meat can be retrieved in a wide variety of alternatives.

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if you need suplements because your diet is deficient in that particular nutrent then clearly youre doing something wrong.
Why?
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The cows aren't going to go on and discover the the cure to HIV, or the secret to Faster Than Light travel if I don't eat them.
Neither are you. I guess we should kill and eat you, then! Would you be okay with that?
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The food chain has always existed ever sice an animal could crawl. You're not going to change it by calling everybody a cunt.
Murder has always existed. I guess murder is okay, then.
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Alternatively, we could have and enforce stricter humane laws in regards to the treatment of animals being used  for consunsumption.
The most humane thing you can do to an animal is not kill it. At all.

Killing something for personal gain alone is not only inhumane, but outright evil.

39048
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:46:55 AM »
How about i just eat my meat in peace and you veggies stop shoving your beliefs down my throat.
How about, that's a very childish standpoint that contains no nuance whatsoever?

You support an industry that abuses animals. I am going to fight that. No matter what.

39049
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:41:36 AM »
I mean, we already have imitation meat through the use of soy. And I'll admit--a lot of it pales in comparison to the taste of real meat. I'll be the first vegan to say that. But we're still in the early stages.

39050
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:31:16 AM »
General question for the Vegans ITT, so basically Verb and Pendulate <.<

The petri dish burger that was made sometime last year, if you were offered the chance to eat one - would you?
Probably not, because I've been a vegan for such a time now, the very taste of meat is absolutely disgusting to me, now (and for the smartasses, I've had chicken sandwiches bought for me by people who did not know I was a vegan, so instead of wasting it, I ate it and said "thank you". That's still veganism).

A better question would be to ask if I have any problem with that, and...
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The cells were taken from a living cow, which as far as I know wasn't harmed by the procedure and then it was developed in what I think was a nutrient medium (Which may have contained animal products, but for the purpose of this assume the only living creature input was those initial cells)
I mean... I guess I don't see anything wrong with that. The main issue veganism takes is the imposing of harm, and if the animal isn't harmed at all in this case, I guess I don't really see any problem. It just sounds absolutely disgusting, is all. I don't even think I'd try it back when I did eat meat.

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And then for a longer view hypothetical, say that we found the food equivalent of HeLa cells (That were safe to consume, rather than literal cancer cells) where from the cellular legacy of one animal (That didn't die to give these cells, just as Henrietta wasn't harmed by the cells being taken) a source of death free 'meat' was available for the global population, would you object to that?
Pain free meat, Psy. Death isn't the problem. It's the suffering that sucks.

Would I object to a suffering-free burger?
I guess not!

I think it's pretty pathetic how meat-eaters are so desperate, that they have to come up with these weird fucking reacharounds just to eat meat without making any ethical transgressions, when becoming a vegan is SO much easier, but whatever.

39051
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:24:24 AM »
I don't understand why vegans try to use pseudo-science
Point out the pseudo-science.

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to try to fight against something that the human body (as well as a good portion of other sentient life on the planet) was naturally evolved to do, and then try to act moraly superior for it.
Do you believe in God?

If not, this is NO better than telling vegans that "God placed animals here to be eaten. God says so."

You are making a really shitty argument from nature here. You treat evolution as an infallible force that we should all follow for no reason. Evolution does not necessitate a "good" existence, or a "better" existence. All evolution does is make it easier for us to survive, that's it. Nowhere does it say, "eating meat is absolutely okay."

You could similarly make the logical argument that we are naturally evolved to kill each other, but I doubt you'd be stupid enough to argue that killing people for no good reason is okay. Vegans are making the logical argument that hurting other sentient creatures for our own personal gain is wrong.

And yes, that makes us superior to you.

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If your problem is with the way animals are treated, or having inhumane methods of extinguishing them, then fight about that instead of trying to force an extreme lifestyle on everyone else and then getting mad when they don't want to comply.
Fighting the treatment of animals NECESSITATES everyone becoming a vegan.

In order to stop the meat industry, you have to boycott it. You HAVE to.
Boycotting = veganism.

39052
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:18:18 AM »
I posted this in a thread a while back, but I think you missed it. If you have the time, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.
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Going along this line of thought, I'd like to hear Verb's take on using dogs for hunting or shepherding, horses for recreational riding, or really any use of animals beyond a purely pet/owner relationship (though a lot of vegans also protest this). It seems that using animals in any sort of utility capacity is a form of theft, and it stands to reason that they could never consent to any of it, despite appearing to (or genuinely) enjoying it, since non-sapient animals can never give it. And is it okay to let an animal fade into extinction because they no longer serve a purpose? Surely any domesticated animal would be quickly killed off in the wild. It just seems like we've formed a fairly healthy, natural relationship with these animals over time, and while we should strive to never cause undue harm, I'm having a hard time seeing the ethical dilemma in our current situation.
I mean... if we're talking pets, ethically speaking, I don't think we ever should have started owning pets. But it's to the point where we've fucked up the dog's genome so much, now we have these tiny chihuahuas who can't fend for themselves at all, and whose skulls are so small and misshapen, they have frequent seizures. That's a little bit fucked up. But, at this point, the ethical standpoint would be to take care of the animals ourselves. That's really the only way.

Hunting is already wrong, so... Obviously, dog hunting is wrong, too. The dogs are just... "complicit", at that point. Shepherding? I mean, that depends on your purpose. For what reason are you tending to the sheep? To extract their wool? Yeah, that's against vegan law.

And as for horses, yeah, horses kept for racing should be released from that life. That's fucking terrible. If you're just casually riding them, however, I guess I don't see a problem? Just get rid of the spurs. Horses don't like spurs.

The fact that some animals "appear" to enjoy serving their owner in some way doesn't really matter. 99% of the human race enjoys living, but that doesn't make giving birth okay to an anti-natalist, because it necessitates an imposition (I'm only using this example because I know you of all people will understand it).

We have national parks that are designed for the preservation of certain species--we could certainly do the same for most of the animals that we eat. Even the chickens, which there are FIFTY BILLION of in the world.

39053
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:05:38 AM »
Well when my choice to eat something is this...

or this

I think I know what I'm going to to be getting.
>implying that's all we eat

I don't even eat whatever the fuck that is.

But it doesn't matter. If that's how you decide to eat food, then you are incapable of logic. Because with your logic, you would probably eat your own mother (or your most significant other) if you could make a big, juicy burger out of them. You sick fuck.

and by the way, I've had vegan food before.  I was practically forced to sit down at a family friend's house for Christmas and eat an entire dinner of nothing but vegan food.  The salad was the only good thing I had, the other stuff was either a wet mush or just tasted awful.

Family and I went out for pizza afterwards since we didn't eat that much.
Fascinating.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

And there's no reasoning with you if you're just going to cry and say "CUNT " like you do in every argument.
Except that's literally the first time I said that (and I didn't even really say it), because you are just WAY too stupid for words.

39054
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 11:00:32 AM »
Because you can't stand differing opinions?
Because your "opinions" SUCK.

You can keep telling me that it's okay to murder sentient beings for no good reason, but if you do, I'm gonna continue to say, "FUCK YOU, CUNT." That's really all vegans should say, because there is OBVIOUSLY no reasoning with these people.

LOOK:
>Veganism

lol
YEP. Pack up, Pendulate. She pulled out the "lol" card. The bane of all veganism. Can't argue with that logic. Guess we gotta start supporting the meat industry now, because someone said "lol".

39055
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 10:55:25 AM »
You're right. I don't care about the animal. Why should I?
Because empathy is an inherently good trait to have. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if you were painfully killed and eaten. I'm sure you wouldn't want any of your friends or family to be killed or eaten. Hell, if you had any scruples at all, you probably wouldn't want a random stranger to be killed and eaten. But when it comes to feeding you, your ethics dissipate, because you're being fed. That's why you should care.
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Just because eating meat is surrounding by unethical means doesn't make the act of eating meat unethical.
I addressed this a few pages ago. No one's arguing that eating meat is unethical. No one. It's the fact that you're supporting an evil industry. When you buy an animal product, there's an unwritten contract that says, "I support the means, processes, and everything else that goes into the creation of this product." That's how the market works.
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It's like video game pre-ordering. Pre-ordering in itself is fine, it's the way pre-ordering is abused that's the problem.
And as a result, you've expresssed a no-tolerance policy on pre-ordering and openly castigate those in Gaming for preordering. Anything. But when a vegan expresses a no-tolerance policy against something that actually MATTERS, you don't care anymore. Mixed priorities much?
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But whatever. I guess I'll just continue being immoral. No skin off my nose.
At least you own up to it. Admitting that you're immoral, facetiously or otherwise, doesn't change the fact that you're immoral, though.

yeah, I'm not giving up red meats, the flavour and seasoning that I can combine for a meal alone are worth it.
Translation:

"My personal enjoyment is worth the continued suffering of other sentient beings."

I mean, yeah, that's your prerogative, but that's just a little bit psychotic, is all. And selfish.
Your selfish desires aren't worth a hangnail on a treesloth.

39056
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »
>reads through replies

Jesus... Fucking... Christ.

And people wonder why vegans get so pissed off and pious.

39057
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:26:15 AM »
and as i explained, you can't force anyone anyway

i deconstructed the use of the word "force" rather thoroughly in the OP

i wonder if anyone actually read it

39058
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 11, 2015, 11:10:51 PM »
I can sort of see the logic behind the argument that killing animals is wrong.  But how is eating an already dead animal wrong? Choosing to either eat or not eat an already dead animal isn't going to make a difference.
Eating an animal that is already dead isn't wrong. Obviously. In fact, assuming the meat industry was destroyed and everyone became a vegan tomorrow, the most veganistic thing to do in that moment would actually be to consume all of the meat & dairy products that remain on the market. So as to not let the animals' suffering go to waste.

No, the problem lies with the fact that we are indeed killing them. No one just... finds cadavers of animals and eats them. No one sits around and waits for their livestock to die just so that they can eat them. No, we torture them brutally, and then we kill them. That's the problem.

Because prohibition worked well, lets try it with food options.
Irrelevant. Otherwise, I guess we should legalize murder, because people still murder people every single day regardless.

Bad straw man.

39059
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 11, 2015, 11:00:28 PM »
In what state do you think the world needs to be in to bin meat.
I don't really care. I'm not out to ban meat, I'm out to spread the message that eating meat is wrong. You can do with that information as you will, but hopefully, you'll realize that I'm right, and that we should probably do something about it.
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Also what are we gunna do with all those cows? Theyll probably grow so high in numbers if you put them all together that it'll create more CO2 pollution then what we currently have.
...No they won't? There are about 1.5 billion cows. The only reason we have so many is because we eat them. If we stopped fucking eating them, there would be a drastic decline in cow numbers. Same for chickens and pigs and whatever the fuck else you eat.

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Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 11, 2015, 10:49:29 PM »
A natural aversion to killing animals, not tendency.
I mean, if that's what he's saying, then he's just demonstrably incorrect...

You read the article on the ferns learning not to be tricked into closing their leaves? I can quote the section for you if you want. Dunno if we can directly call it learning. But it is rather clever and very, very quick adaptation.
I mean, it's interesting as a biological process, but again, all I really care to see is an article that says "plants feel". We can build AI that "learn", but there's no way we could ever make a sentient AI. No way.

But human history, instinct hell even science says meat is necessary for a healthy diet. Just my opinion.
No, I don't think science says that at all. Meat contains NO nutrients that cannot be found just as easily in vegan foods. Some of the most healthy people I've ever met have been vegan.
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Just plainly put its a bad idea and would never work in this current time we live in.
Obviously. It's obviously going to be a slow, incremental process. No one's saying we should ban meat-eating tomorrow.

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