Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Verbatim

Pages: 1 ... 129913001301 13021303 ... 1601
39001
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 04:57:48 PM »
Sexualization isn't a gender exclusive thing, Verb. Ever played God of War? Uncharted? Pretty much any game with a gruff male protagonist? We like sex, and showing off some skin (in male and female characters) is a non-issue.

Now, how they're written is another whole story, a point that actually has some merits. Most females fall into the empathetic caretaker or masculine "I don't need no man" stereotypes. That's what we should be trying to fix. Not this put everyone into a winter coat so there's no chance that we might find them sexually attractive nonsense.
I know sexualization isn't gender exclusive, and I've expressed that in the past (and in this very thread). I still think it's an issue. Just because we like sex doesn't mean we have to exploit it in media.

39002
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:28:00 PM »
Does she ever have anything positive to say?
Uh, yes. That's what this thread is about.

39003
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:27:13 PM »
How about i just eat my meat in peace and you veggies stop shoving your beliefs down my throat.
Good golly god this couldn't be said any better.
And I couldn't have refuted it any better.

39004
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:21:36 PM »
Yes.

Fetuses aren't sentient either.

39005
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:17:34 PM »
Except it's absolutely okay to kill a living organism.

























































...Unless it's sentient.

And plants are not.

39006
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:10:11 PM »
Yeah, no, not at all.

39007
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:09:35 PM »
You're basically saying that if I knocked you out, I could kill you, and it would be okay, because you didn't feel it.

That's how stupid that is.

39008
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 03:08:53 PM »
Well when you knock out the cow/chicken before killing them, they don't feel either.

Retard
It doesn't matter if they didn't feel it at the moment. The fact that they could feel at one point makes it wrong.
Plants can never feel.

39009
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:59:58 PM »
You kill oxygen - breathing and self-sustaining plants for your consumption.

Killing plants for food is wrong.
Plants don't feel, retard.

39010
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:58:15 PM »
>Convinently ignores the rest of my post, where I stated I get grass-fed or local meats
It doesn't matter. Killing animals for food is wrong. Torturing animals and then killing them is worse, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still having animals killed.

39011
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:57:37 PM »
I don't care how long it takes, the prey will eventually become overpopulous.
They have the overwhelming advantage of numbers, and while the predators will never go hungry, animals such as Cattle, chickens, and sheep will explode in population without being harvested, and not be able to feed on the limited food supply.
Prove it.
Quote
If the lions and other predators like them decided to become vegetarian, (as ridiculous as it sounds) how fucked would african wildlife be?
They'd overpopulate and starve.
Carnivorous animals going extinct actually sounds like a pretty good idea.

39012
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:55:06 PM »
Just because I enjoy meat, I obviously support how they are treated?
YES. If you are paying money for it, that tells the industry that you support everything they do! They don't care about what you actually feel. That's how the market works. Your voice isn't heard. Only your wallet is. If you don't support how animals are treated, tell that to them with your wallet. By not spending money on animal products.

"b-b-b-but it tastes s-so good!"

39013
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:52:25 PM »
You can't always get what you want.

I mean, you're taught that when you're fucking six. That's why I call you a child.
Because you haven't learned that yet, apparently.

39014
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:49:37 PM »
Me being put off from vegan food severely decreases any chance of trying "every single dish out there."
I don't like vegan food either, is the thing. But I realize that what I like really doesn't matter when we're dealing with the suffering of sentient creatures.

39015
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
That's not the Jade I was expecting to see
Who were you expecting to see?

39016
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:47:16 PM »
So just like you can sit there and bitch about meat, I can sit here and bitch about how terrible vegan food is.
Not an apt comparison, because vegans aren't hurting anyone with the food they eat.
Meat-eaters actively support an industry that tortures and kills animals brutally.

Your childishness is showing again.

39017
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:46:12 PM »
Because I have eaten Vegan food before, genius.  I had to power through a Christmas dinner of it, and my ex used to cook nothing but vegan food.
You haven't had every vegan dish in existence, though. And maybe your ex was just a shitty cook. That's always a very salient possibility.

39018
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:43:23 PM »
This is completely fine. I have no problem with people being vegans due to their own set of ethics. If you want to try and convert other people to being vegans and following your set of ethics though force is the wrong way to go about it. So is calling them names and demonizing them for that matter.

You need to unite, not divide. Which is what organizations like PETA don't seem to understand.

Spoiler
Completely different topic, but it's a similar problem that SJWs have. Their base message is good, but they've become so militant and divisive that they drive people away instead of inviting them to learn about and be open to their message. The echo chamber that drives them to the point of almost being delusional doesn't exactly help either.
I went into that a little bit in the OP. There's a reason so many vegans are militant. It's because we're fed up, and we're angry. We're not going to force anyone to do anything, because we can't, and we're not going to succeed in "converting" anyone no matter how hard we try. It has to be a personal decision. The only thing we can do is present people with arguments.

And when there are people who take all our arguments, understand the position, sympathize with the position, but then just say, "but meat tastes so good!" It's... fucking frustrating, to say the least. It's just a very selfish, myopic thing to say in the face of one of the greatest travesties on the planet. Of course we'll get angry.

39019
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:40:09 PM »
Will it be ethical when livestock is overpopulous and begis starving to death?
They WON'T. The only reason livestock is so populous now is BECAUSE they are livestock. BECAUSE we mass produce them. Animals do not reproduce naturally the rate at which they do artificially.
Quote
Because without the most successful and ruthless predator on the planet (mankind) the entire ecosystem is thrown out of wack.
[citation needed]

Quote
People like to believe that mankind is above the ecosystem, that we have ascended out of it.
We have.

We have brains. Vegans are using them. Meat-eaters are not.

39020
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:30:41 PM »
If you need to rely on dietary supplements and synthetic vitamins to keep your body working properly than your diet is not a healthy or natural one. Sorry, but this is the truth.
But it's an ethical one.

And that's ALL that matters.

39021
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:24:41 PM »
So am I.
Then please, elaborate how appearance alone is the best indicator of flavor.
Oh, you misinterpreted my post. Read it again. I didn't think it was that hard, but whatever.

I'm not saying YOU are using childish meat-eater logic. I'm saying Voro is. I answered for him.

39022
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:15:49 PM »
So am I.

39023
Serious / Re: "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:07:44 PM »
Since when was judging food base on appearance alone, the best indicator of flavor?
Childish meat-eater logic.

I remember thinking the same way.

When I was eight.

39024
Serious / Re: Addiction
« on: May 12, 2015, 02:04:53 PM »
I'm sure most of you are addicted to your phones, as well.
Nope.
Sure.

39025
Gaming / Re: The hype is real
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:51:35 PM »
Why would you be smug about pre-ordering?
Does it bother you that I just pre-ordered every game that you are able to?

39026
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:32:47 PM »
Like, I'm sorry, but as much as I fucking hate Bayonetta, I don't see how calling her a "power fantasy" for females is supposed to make her design any less offensive. If anything, it exacerbates it. Characters don't need to be sexualized to be interesting, and we all understand this.

39027
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:21:56 PM »
Yet when the same concept is applied in reverse (ie Thor) it's twisted into "Male Power Fantasy and not eye candy for women. Which is hilarious because when a character like Bayoneytta is intentionally designed as a power fantasy Anita still tries to wave it off.

Why do feminists feel so comfortable with this double standard?
But feminists like Anita argue that power fantasies are a bad thing, and I agree. Eye candy is bad, and so are power fantasies. It doesn't matter which gender they're geared towards--I think they're all equally bad. Anita would probably disagree with me there.

She probably thinks the male power fantasies are more pernicious, because males already dominate the gamersphere, but I take a step further and say that all power fantasies are bad. All examples of eye candy are bad. Male or female.

39028
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:18:08 PM »
Id argue that amount is very subjective. Thats just silly.
Personally, I wouldn't have even brought it up if I was her, but again, she still has eleven minutes worth of praise to give her. My favorite part of the video was around the seven minute mark, where she talks about how, in situations where Jade is in distress, she does not need her male partner to rescue her. She's perfectly capable of saving herself. That's... great.

39029
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:13:23 PM »
Exept when the blatantly lies and stretches the truth or using double standards to reinterprets things  in the most rediculous and  unintended ways to make her points (see: Hitman, Mass Effect ect)
Her Hitman video was stupid, yes, but again, on the subject of positive female characters, she hasn't really said anything that could be considered duplicitous.

If you really can't bring yourself to watch the video, here's a transcript of it:
Transcript
Jade – Positive Female Character Transcript

Jade: My name is Jade. And I haven’t the foggiest how we’re gonna get out of here.

Jade is the protagonist of the 2003 third-person action adventure game Beyond Good & Evil. She’s a brave photojournalist who sets out to uncover a conspiracy between alien invaders and her own corrupt government.

Jade: They’re coming! Quick, Venn, jump up!

We start getting a sense of who Jade is from the moment we see her, and refreshingly…

Jade: Go tell Pey’j! I’ll take care of the shield.

…she actually looks the part of the active, practical young woman of color who has a job to do.

Computer 1: Shield activated.

We learn about who characters are not just from the things they say and do, but also from how they look: visual design is an important way for game designers to communicate information at a glance about a character’s experience and personality traits. Sadly, women in games are often depicted in wildly impractical, sexualized clothing designed to make them appealing to straight male players. But Jade isn’t designed to fulfill someone else’s fantasy. The midriff top is a little silly, but for the most part, she looks like someone who is dressed to accommodate her own needs. I mean, you don’t get much more practical than cargo pants.

Games often give us heroes who are either fantastically wealthy, like the Bruce Waynes and Lara Crofts of the world, or who at least don’t have practical, everyday concerns about money. But money is not just an abstract concept for Jade. She’s a working class character with real financial struggles. This is established at the very beginning of the game, when we learn that the orphanage’s electricity has been shut off, and Uncle Pey’j’s hovercraft is in dire need of repair.

Computer 1: Shield disabled.
Computer 2: Your Optima account is…

Computer 1: 350

Computer 2: …units short. Your electrical supply has just been blocked.

Jade: You’ve got to be joking!

These are characters who struggle just to make ends meet, and for them, concerns about their economic situation have real implications for their ability to provide for themselves and their adopted family.

Jade: We’re stuck here. No hovercraft, no shield. Optima has cut off the power, the account is empty.

In order to pay the bills, we’re introduced to a mechanic that establishes one of Jade’s creative talents: photography. Throughout the game, she is paid to document and catalogue the diverse animal life on the planet with her camera.

Science Center Director: Hi Jade. I see Secundo already talked to you about the job. The war is taking its toll. We need a complete inventory of all species living on the planet.

Instead of just showing or offhandedly telling us about her skills in cutscenes, the designers have built character development right into the gameplay, giving players a pleasant, nonviolent way of interacting with and appreciating the beauty of the game’s world while simultaneously reinforcing that Jade is a woman of many talents. Edge Magazine insightfully observed that part of what makes Jade so memorable is “the fact that she views this strange world and all of its careworn inhabitants through the lens of a camera, rather than the scope of an assault rifle.”

Pey’j: Hey, Jade! A school of blue scorpion fish!

This not only gives Jade more depth, but also encourages the player to view the lifeforms of Hillys with some measure of respect, rather than seeing them solely as enemies to be destroyed.

Science Center Director: From the same family as the scorpion fish. Very difficult to photograph.

While many games center on so-called “heroes” who are out for personal glory or revenge, Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative establishes Jade’s altruistic desire to achieve social justice. It’s worth noting that Jade avoids falling into the tired cliché of the tough as nails, solve-all-problems-with-violence “strong female character” archetype. Her quest is not about her pain, nor is it about taking satisfaction in exacting violent retribution.

Jade: If there’s a way to stop this war, we can’t let it pass us by.

It’s about protecting her world and the people she cares about, and unlike so many one-dimensional brooding heroes who are characterized by their own suffering, Jade does not wear the mantle of hero like a heavy burden; instead she retains her warmth and humanity over the course of her quest.

Pey’j: Ha ha ha! Not bad for a little girl and an old ham!

Jade: We did it Pey’j! Heh. Not bad for an old fart.

Together with Uncle Pey’j, a mechanically savvy anthropomorphized boar, Jade looks after a group of war-orphaned children, sheltering them in a lighthouse on the mining planet of Hillys.Though Hillys is, on the surface, a colorful and inviting place, not all is well in this world. We learn early on that an alien race has been attacking and abducting residents.

Reporter: Here on Hillys, war has once again reared its ugly head, striking the civilian population. Luckily our elite forces have once again arrived in the nick of time. I’m coming to you live from the southern lighthouse shelter. Here is where some of the children whose parents have been captured by the Dons have been taken in by two devoted and courageous Hillyans. Miss, a word for our listeners…

Jade: Uhh…

Pey’j: Yeah, yeah. Well you guys are not what I call as fast as a speeding bullet. Keep doing nuthin’ and next time, thery’ll be nuthin’ left here to see!

Reporter: Cut!

Recruited by a resistance organization called the IRIS network, Jade uncovers a vast conspiracy between the invading aliens and the government, with the corporate news media complicit in covering up the truth.

Mino: Here’s what we know. The victims are kidnapped by Alpha Section agents. They are then taken to the Nutripills factory. Shuttles are then used to take them to the old slaughterhouses. And from there, they are loaded into military cruisers headed for the moon.

There’s a subtle but subversive political dimension to Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative which highlights the importance of questioning mass media messages and challenging institutions of power that perpetuate injustice.

As a member of a resistance group, Jade uses her talents as a photographer to collect evidence documenting the conspiracy,

Science Center Director: Upper floor? Ok, I see where you’re at. We’ll start the deciphering program.

and her combat skills to help rescue kidnapped members of the IRIS Network. But she rarely goes it alone. Jade starts out the game with Uncle Pey’j by her side, and the way the characters interact makes Pey’j feel more like a partner than a mere sidekick.

In this early scene, Jade is trapped until Pey’j appears, throwing her a staff she uses to free herself and overcome the destructive alien force.

Pey’j: Hang on Jade! I’m coming! Free yourself, Jade. I’ll create a diversion.

It may seem like a minor detail, but the fact that Pey’j tells Jade to free herself, instead of doing it for her, is incredibly important. He assists her but doesn’t rescue her. He knows that even in this situation, she’s far from helpless, and the fact that Pey’j treats her as a capable partner encourages us to see her that way, too.

This moment also evokes a sense of mutual respect and partnership between these two characters, in a way that is all too rare for female characters in gaming.

Eventually, Uncle Pey’j is kidnapped, and Jade is determined to rescue him.

As a quick side note, It’s important to point out that a kidnapped male character saved by a woman and a kidnapped female character saved by a man are not equivalent, because while a damsel in distress reinforces longstanding regressive myths about women as a group being weak or helpless specifically because of their gender, a dude in distress does not reinforce any such ideas about men. For more on the relatively rare dude in distress inversion, see part 3 of my videos on the damsel trope.

Many games present an image of bravery and courage that suggests heroes are fiercely independent, rugged individualists. In those games in which heroes do have sidekicks, those sidekicks often serve as cheerleaders and ego boosters for the player, complimenting them on their skill and accomplishments, or as impediments, preventing them from progressing to a new section until they’ve completed some task. In Beyond Good & Evil, Jade’s sidekicks, Pey’j and later Double H, feel not like cheerleaders or roadblocks but like active companions who want to use their unique skills to assist Jade when they accompany her on a mission.

Pey’j: Ha ha! Say when, Jade! Jet boots attack!

There’s a sense of both good-natured humor and respect written into the banter between Jade and her sidekicks: she’s warm but also assertive, and the tone of their interactions makes it clear that they aren’t designed just to make her or the player feel better.

Pey’j: Ok. We’re going to have to keep on our toes now, Jade.

Jade: Don’t worry, uncle Pey’j. We’ll just take some pictures and get home.

The mechanics aren’t significantly different from those associated with sidekicks in many other games: these characters fight enemies and are attacked by enemies; and often their special abilities, Pey’j’s jet boots and Double H’s bull rush, must be used to advance. But because the writing so effectively creates a sense of respect and camaraderie between Jade and her companions, these relationships become much more than simple gameplay interactions.

Pey’j: Thanks, Jade. I’d’ve ended up on a silver platter with an apple in my mouth if it wasn’t for you.

Jade: Mmmm. Shut up. You’re making me hungry. I’m gonna regret saving you.

They become a vital and memorable part of the experience of playing Beyond Good & Evil, and work to emphasize the game’s themes of friendship and cooperation.

For years there have been rumours and even a teaser trailer about a Beyond Good and Evil 2. I hope this actually happens but whether or not that sequel ever gets made, we definitely need more games with warm, compassionate, multitalented characters who have realistic and relatable concerns, and more narratives in which taking a stand against corrupt systems of power is more important than personal gain or revenge.

39030
Gaming / Re: Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:10:32 PM »
So even the slightest bit of skin is sexualization now?
I specifically used the word "mild". Come on now.

The amount of skin shown is not the point. There are specific parts of the female body that males find enticing, and the midriff happens to be one of them. So yes, a character bearing his or her midriff is an example of sexualization. Mostly her.

Pages: 1 ... 129913001301 13021303 ... 1601