If I woke up tomorrow and realized I was born with the wrong body, I wouldn't care.
I wouldn't have an existential crisis. Because I know that it doesn't matter.

Just saying.

Teaching people not to have a mental disorder

you're a moron

if we taught people not to care, no one would get the disorder to begin with

unless you're stupid enough to think it's congenital

Except it does. That's why a lot of them commit suicide.

Just stop. You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Except it doesn't. People commit suicide for irrational reasons all the time.

Just stop. You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Quote from: Verbatim on June 03, 2015, 05:35:28 PM

I think saying it's "nothing to worry about" is a bit unfair when you also acknowledge that it has social consequences, and our happiness depends largely on social integration

But I've only read the last page so maybe you covered this.

yes, you are indeed misconstruing my message

i'm not glibly saying that there's nothing to worry about--i'm using that phrase in a broader context

what i've been saying is that gender SHOULD NOT matter to anyone
thereby meaning that there would be nothing to worry about

objectively speaking, there already is nothing to worry about--people (the bullies) just choose to act like gender matters, because they're fucking stupid

I'd like to throw out there that Gender Dysphoria is a subset of Body Dismorphic Disorder, a Somatoform/ Somatic Symptom Disorder. It's not as simple as eliminating the concept of gender; it's a problem of the brain not being able to reconcile what it perceives to be grave physical deformities.

i honestly believe eliminating the concept of gender would indeed solve that problem--at least for the gender dysphoric

for those who have some other strictly bodily form of BDD, that's obviously a different story

Bro, Verb, dysphoria has so much to do with your physical body that eliminating any nuance of gender roles in society still wouldn't help it.

Didn't you ever talk to Soph about this?

not much, to be honest

but i'm just saying, if we took away all our inhibitions about what it means to be a man and what it means to be a women, if we took away all bias, all prejudice, all discrimination, in what way would gender dysphoria matter? why would you be dysphoric about your gender if not for the social implications?

Yeah, uh, gender dysphoria is actually something that exists

i never said it didn't
when i said it's "nothing", i meant it's nothing to worry about

it can be the root of other mental problems (like depression).

people don't get depressed because they were born the wrong gender

they get depressed because either
1. they care too much about what other people think
2. people bully them

that's why they kill themselves

because they get bullied

duh

if we treated people like fucking human beings, it wouldn't be an issue at all
has nothing to do with sex/procreation and everything to do with discrimination

that's the root of the problem, and you're a big part of it, bubba

Except that'll never happen.

it will though

No it isn't. These people live in extreme anguish every day.

not all of them

LOL

You ignorant motherfucker. That's not how mental illnesses work.

>he doesn't know that some mental illnesses can kill you by their nature

LOL

gender dysphoria is nothing
gender is meaningless

it doesn't hurt you at all, in any way whatsoever, to feel like you belong in the opposite gender
and if someone is uncomfortable about their dysphoria, then that's their own problem

because no one should rationally have any problem with it, because there's nothing wrong with it

Except it's the reason these people kill themselves.

it's the reason stupid people kill themselves

if you're not stupid, you won't give a fuck what your gender is

harsh, but true

What? I'm saying they still end up killing themselves because they're stuck with having gender dysphoria.

and i'm saying that's an incredibly stupid fucking reason to kill yourself

i would assume if it was a disease, then the dysphoria itself would kill you
THEN it would be a problem

but seeing as how it doesn't, it's not a problem

Penis = Male
Vagina = Female

That has nothing to do with anything.

People committing suicide because hey don't know what gender they are isn't harmful.

Ok buddy.

That's them, not the "disease".

No (intelligent) person should give a fuck about gender anyway. His or her or anyone else's.

I thought they were bad (especially as an HP fan), but, eh, I guess they had some charm to them.

So forget the label "manly" or "masculine".

I mean, I'd love to, philosophically, but in this argument, the ideas of masculinity and femininity are sort of intrinsically intertwined with the very definition of gender.

It has no bearing on whether or not the behavioural things we see are the result of biological causes; nobody is saying that there is something about men that makes them necessarily manly, we're just saying that whatever gendered behaviour we see, it has some biological foundation and just happens to correlate with the sexes.

Now you're speaking my language, and you see, that's exactly what I've been saying. That's the social construct argument. "There is nothing about men that makes them necessarily manly." Precisely what I've been saying. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, perhaps I didn't argue it well enough, but that's all I've been saying.

"Whatever gendered behavior we see..."

Right. So it's defined by us. That's the definition of a social construct.

Did you read my post with all the links?

I really couldn't care to if all they're going to make is arguments from biology. If they don't, I'll happily read them, but I have a sharp suspicion that they do.

Except that is an argument and you haven't refuted it. If gender is behavioural, and there are obvious behavioural differences as a result of underlying biological causes then the behaviour is a result of biology to some extent.

Only arbitrarily.

All you're doing is literally defining biology out of gender altogether, despite the fact that there is no basis for this. The fact that the thing in question may be behavioural or socially influenced to some degree doesn't preclude it from having biological causes.

It does, considering that the hormones associated with "maleness" aren't written in stone somewhere saying, "men act like this."

]That doesn't hold; the point is that there is a correlation between levels of testosterone and the male sex.

Which is, again, arbitrary.