This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Messages - Verbatim
Pages: 1 ... 120012011202 12031204 ... 1601
36031
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:49:15 PM »
fuck you, you shitting cUNT
frick you, you fricking frick
36032
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:42:52 PM »
Extremely.
36033
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:40:14 PM »
hell Off topic, but did you flunk out of Ramadan?
the profanity thing is just for sticklers, and "hell" isn't even that bad of a swear <.< i've yet to drop any f-bombs or s-bombs or c-bombs, so acknowledgement, plz (i'm also still starving myself, of course)
36034
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:38:29 PM »
Sure, just ignore the fact that you're being misled by the media everyday. I don't pay much heed to the media. What I look at is history. What you're telling me right now is that the Holocaust was justified, and I'm saying that you're absolutely incorrect. Something tells me, though, even if you were to look at it from my perspective, you still wouldn't be able to see where I'm coming from. I hope I'm wrong.
36035
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:35:53 PM »
I think it looks kinda cool.
36036
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:32:15 PM »
This is why I didn't send him a PM. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ehh i kinda resent that, tbh it would be all well and good if you laid your hand in the discussion, but
36037
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:27:37 PM »
Absolutely We're not going to get anywhere, then. I would only ask for you to try to look it at from my perspective for a moment, please.
36038
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:26:32 PM »
If you've created a good (as it could be) life for the child, and then realise "Oh shit, having children is wrong", would it not follow that you allow things to stay the same between you and the child?
I guess what I'm saying is, how would you know if you're creating a good life for your child? Well, if you have a roof over your head, you're feeding him three meals a day, you're bathing him, you're talking to him, you're playing with him, you're teaching him, you're sending him off to school, he's getting good grades, he's making a lot of friends, and he's not getting bullied, and you always take care of him when he's sick, etc. etc. etc. That's a pretty good sign. Failing to meet any of those criteria is a bad sign. If you're doing a bang-up job as a parent, then you're golden. Keep it up.
36039
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:18:23 PM »
Oh, okay. Yeah, if that's the case, I agree. But what would constitute a life that would "suck"? If you've been, in your opinion, a good father to a child, would it not follow that things would stay the same? The same as what? Sorry, I don't quite follow the question.
36040
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:14:26 PM »
Too bad you have literally zero evidence to support that claim. To disagree with that statement would be to concede the notion that all the good in the world is balanced out perfectly by all the bad in the world. Do you honestly believe that there are equal parts good and bad in the world? Plus, there is no rule anywhere saying you must enjoy a perfect life. If you steal all your parent's money to gamble it away at the casino, you better be 100% sure you come back with more money than you brought in. 100%. Not 99%. 100%. Otherwise, it's completely unjustified.
36041
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:11:57 PM »
And by the way, I'm gonna stress again that if you wouldn't kill the newborn, I wouldn't judge you at all.
I'm just saying, if it happened, I wouldn't care. It would be justified, in my opinion.
I haven't even went into what I would do if I was in her position, because I don't know what I'd do.
36042
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:06:03 PM »
The potential for suffering outweighs the potential for happiness.
It would only be unjustifiable if the child were to have the perfect life. And nobody has ever lived a perfect life. And there's no way of knowing that it would have a perfect life anyway.
36043
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:57:58 PM »
Yes, because smothering an innocent baby in its sleep is so sophisticated. Dumbass. better than forcing it to live out the miserable, fruitless life that it would inevitably have but what the hell is nuance when you can have black and white morality like that
36044
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:52:52 PM »
Verbatim officially condones cold blooded murder. what a fair, nuanced, and sophisticated interpretation
36045
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:49:23 PM »
I don't feel pressured to agree with you. It's just a social anxiety I have--it honestly kinda makes me nervous when people agree with me, because people don't agree with me very often, you know what I'm saying? It's great that you do, but like you said, it's a little uncanny.
36046
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:40:03 PM »
Another scenario I have trouble with: what if the woman I loved wanted children? That was the only thing in the world she wanted, and she didn't want to adopt? What would I do? I'd want to give the world to my wife, but from a morality standpoint, I know it's wrong. I'd obviously try to explain my standpoint to her, but at the end of the day, I'm still denying the ONE THING she's wanted her entire life to the one person I love. If it were me, I'd have to leave her. Simple as that. I know it may not be as simple for you, and believe me, I've thought about scenarios like this before, and they scared the hell out of me. But I've had this philosophy for nearly three years, and it's basically my heart and soul, so... It doesn't really take much thought for me. Part of being an anti-natalist, of course, is taking initiative. Before you get into a relationship with anybody, make sure to find out first if they have any desire of becoming a biological parent. Wait - I'm confused. Are you saying that if you have children, and then realise too late that having children is wrong, you should put them up for adoption? You should take whatever course of action you feel will be best. Adoption is just one thing you could do, if your child's life is guaranteed to suck if you continue to be its parent. Same. When I try to explain anti-natalism to my friends, they all think I'm so sociopathic murderer, whereas in reality, I'm the exact opposite. Yeah, I've been there. I still am there, in some folks' opinions. They're morons, though. Pay them no mind.
36047
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:30:46 PM »
And don't feel pressured to agree with me, Snake, just because you're also an anti-natalist. I understand that the scenario is difficult, and typing up my initial response was a little bit painful for even me. It's just my interpretation, and I don't want to speak for all anti-natalists. So if you disagree, that's fine, I don't really expect anybody to agree with me. I just hope you can see where I'm coming from, at the very least.
That's really been my mission over the past few months--not necessarily to convince anyone of the philosophy, but to get people to see where I'm coming from.
36048
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:18:25 PM »
True, but where do we draw the line? I mean, I'd obviously like to believe that if I had the option to just press a button and all life would end, I would press it. But I couldn't imagine what I would actually do in that scenario.
It's an entirely different thing to just NOT have kids. But killing the ones you have... might prove too much for me, personally. That's why I consider it a difficult question. I don't know where I'd draw the line, necessarily. Obviously, I'm not about to advocate for the murder of kids that are already one or two or three years old. If you're gonna do it at all, you should only do it immediately after it's born, in my opinion. In this scenario, the mother was lucky enough to be in a secluded area, too. No doubt the murder of a newborn child would go over well with the general public. And how do you feel about abortions, if this scenario gives you pause? I'm not a fan of abortions, either. They're messy and gruesome and horrible, and they often leave the mother in an intense state of shock and depression afterwards. Bad stuff. But it's one of those "you gotta do what you gotta do" situations. If you make the decision to have the abortion, you are tacitly admitting that you are unprepared to bring up a child--so you should commit to that decision. If you come to that realization when the kid is already walking and talking, well, you waited too long. It's too late now. Try for adoption, perhaps. I'd rather children never be even conceived in the first place. I take no joy out of the notion of killing newborns, and I feel like I have to stress that point.
36049
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:11:55 PM »
Well said.
But...
Hypothetically, what would "doing your part to try and make the world a better place" entail? If by "parasite" you mean someone who is actively trying to be unemployed* (or something along the lines of that), couldn't that person still theoretically make the world a better place by not having children and not supporting the meat and dairy industries? I mean parasite in the sense that all we do is drain resources without really doing anything to give back. Parasites are just takers. All of us are parasites in this sense--but some are bigger parasites than others. For example, able-bodied fellows who refuse to work. Being an advocate for veganism/anti-natalism is part of what I'd consider an attempt to making the world a better place, yes. And there's numerous other things you can do as well, but it's mostly just about helping others in any way you can. Acknowledge that everything you do is the result of another human being's suffering (to your house, to your job, down the clothes you wear). Account for it, and take whatever action you feel is necessary to counteract it. We're not going to succeed in preventing all the suffering in the world, but we can certainly try our hardest.
36050
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:02:13 PM »
Because you would be imposing death on another human being. Well, Benatar's book is entitled Better Never to Have Been for a reason. This isn't a scenario where you pick the best option--you pick the least worst option. I'd say imposing death for the purposes of curtailing a potentially miserable life is completely justified.
36051
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:00:47 PM »
Let's say, in some rural part of a developed country, a woman gives birth to a child in some isolated log cabin. The only person there with her is her only friend-cum-midwife. Nobody else has any knowledge of the birth, and the moment her friend steps out of the log cabin to go home she is hit by a tanker and killed immediately.
So the mother is the only human being on the planet with the knowledge of the baby's existence. She settles down, and reads some Arthur Schopenhauer, David Benatar and Peter Zapffe. Accordingly, she becomes convinced that life has an aggregate, objective disutility and thus procreation is immoral.
So she smothers the newborn as it sleeps. Is this morally permissible/justified.
Yes. I'm not saying it would be pleasant, and I'm not saying it would be a happy event. Abortions are rarely anything less than an emotional ordeal for not just the mother, but the father as well. But in terms of her options, smothering the newborn is the least worst option, and I think is completely justified. If I may delve into the mother's psychology, part of the reason why she made the decision might have been because she realizes her means. She likely either lacked the resources and the know-how to even give the child a semblance of a healthy life, or realized that, even if she managed to bring him or her up as best as she could, there is still no guarantee that his or her life will be a "good" one. So instead of imposing her ineptitude on the child, she spared it a life of misery and penury. Of course, she did a number of things right, which must be commented on: - She smothered it immediately after its birth. There's really no better time to do that. Once it starts getting into the "week old" range, "month old" range, "year old" range, it really begins to start sounding ethically questionable. I don't know where to draw the line, exactly, but really, I don't see anything wrong with smothering babies so early after their birth. It's a late-term abortion. - She smothered it while it was asleep. Just a smart move in general. So yes, while that's definitely gruesome, it would be what I'd called "the right thing to do". Unless she somehow had the means to give the child a perfect life, but clearly, she didn't, if she read all of those philosopers' works.
36052
« on: June 22, 2015, 02:38:48 PM »
Nobody's imposing anything on anybody. Oh, so you were created voluntarily, somehow? Your parents got your permission to birth you? Oh, okay, that's fine then. I don't know how the hell they did that, but okay. Would it not be possible for you to consider one to be a decent human being AND a Nihilist but only in regards to oneself? For example, what if someone established that there is no point to theirs or other's lives but still maintained not to impose this on other people? Coming to the conclusion of "there is no point to anything, but my viewpoint does not give me the right to impose it on others by making their lives worse." Meta summed it up rather well. If you're able to make value deductions like "I don't have the right to impose this on anybody else", then you're not a nihilist. It's a contradiction. If you think your own existence is pointless or insignificant, but you see the potential that others have, that's not nihilism--that's just being realistic. But of course, even as a "personal nihilist", you should still do your part in trying to make the world a better place. Otherwise, you're just kind of a parasite.
36053
« on: June 22, 2015, 07:45:28 AM »
Absence of pain exists. When you laugh, it's nothing but pure pleasure. Same with sex, or doing an activity you really enjoy. You can escape from pain, even if it is only for a little while.
Pain is very important to feel. It teaches us and gives us understanding. Without pain, we wouldn't be what we are today.
And? The fact that pain is "very important" is part of the problem. It's part of what makes life so undesirable. Personally, I'd rather not have been forced into a reality wherein pain is supposed to be an important part of the experience. That sounds really, really stupid to me. You might be okay with it (if you're insane), which is fine for you, but the anti-natalist position is that you don't have any right to impose it on anybody else.
36055
« on: June 22, 2015, 07:31:25 AM »
My problem with moral nihilism (speaking as a former nihilist, no less) is its complete unwillingness to make the presuppositions necessary to reach moral facts. Or indeed any facts. The whole of epistemology is a presupposition, the point is making the right presuppositions.
And when it comes to morality, you either make the presupposition or you don't. And if you don't, you're either religious or a nihilist.
At least religious people are smart enough to figure out that ethics matter (hence why most Christians believe in heaven and hell). Of course, their standards are garbage, but still. Nihilists can't even figure that out. This is why I could never be a Buddhist, as much as the philosophy appeals to me--I'm just far too vindictive.
36056
« on: June 22, 2015, 07:27:25 AM »
You constantly say life has no intrinsic value, and you hope all sentient life is ended. The reason I want sentient life to end is to prevent all suffering, because suffering is the only thing with any intrinsic value in the universe. Just because I think suffering is the only thing with any intrinsic value doesn't mean that I don't think life has any value. It means that it has precisely one value--our capacity to feel. The reason I want all sentient life to end is because suffering is an intrinsic negative value. Preventing suffering is, therefore, of an intrinsic positive value. I'm the furthest you could possibly ever get from a nihilist, because if I were a nihilist, I wouldn't have any reason to care whether or not people have kids, would I?
36057
« on: June 22, 2015, 07:19:53 AM »
You say here's no value in life Never once have I.
36058
« on: June 22, 2015, 06:58:37 AM »
don't think i wouldn't because i would
36059
« on: June 22, 2015, 06:57:12 AM »
if i could press a button that would destroy all memes
i would press it
36060
« on: June 22, 2015, 06:51:43 AM »
will the real slim PS4 please stand up
Pages: 1 ... 120012011202 12031204 ... 1601
|
Show Posts