Dark Souls Impressions - The FINAL Update

were you wearing a ring?

Not the Ring of Sacrifice.

Do you mean that you kept in the sense of you managed to recover your souls and therefore didn't lose it, or in the sense of "I died and respawned with a 1 in the top corner". Because the second shouldn't happen at all.

Well, both. Black knight kills me, I return to the bonfire, and there's a 01 in the corner. Second time this has happened, actually. The first time was at the Undead Burg under the exact same circumstances, if I remember correctly.

I kept it as in I never lost it--which is usually what happens. Whenever I get Humanity, it's a usually a sign that I'll suffer a double death and lose everything, but it didn't happen that time--so I just thought that was worth mentioning.

But yeah, are you sure it's just not something that happens every once in awhile? Like, the game notices that you're dying in the same area a lot to the same enemy, so it gives you a little present out of... pity, or something? That would be funny if that were the case, but if you say it shouldn't happen at all... Could be another glitch. I dunno.

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I'm so fucking glad you finally found that hidden bonfire, argh. Be sure to explore the Burg thoroughly too.

I'm so fucking glad you finally found that hidden bonfire, argh. Be sure to explore the Burg thoroughly too.

You'll like the second half.

I'm so fucking glad you finally found that hidden bonfire, argh. Be sure to explore the Burg thoroughly too.

You'll like the second half.

I'm hoping you found a certain equippable item. Being as vague as possible but I am sooo hoping you found it.

<- Previous update: Getting Gooder^
This is the second half of my last big play session, so if you haven't read the first part already, I recommend you do so.

Recap:
- Bought the other Smithbox that I needed.
- Currently grinding for the Crest of Artorias (20,000 souls).
- Slayed the black knight in the Undead Parish.
- Opened the gate in the Undead Parish.
- Visited the Valley of Drakes; left immediately for obvious reasons.
- Found the hidden bonfire in Darkroot Garden.
- Collected around ~6000 souls, and 1 Humanity.

Current mission: Head to the monastery in the Undead Parish to see what I can find.


3. Nymph?

Finding that secret bonfire was nice and all, but it wasn't doing me any good at the moment. Right now, it's just another bonfire that I have to kindle at some point. This game has been an utter bitch to me in terms of receiving Humanity. I've never been able to collect more than 1 Humanity ever, so even if I went human, it would be utterly pointless, because I just can't get that second bit of Humanity to kindle any bonfires.

Just thinking about it frustrated me, so as I sauntered out of Darkroot Garden, I began looking all over the place, just to see if there were any pick-ups that I might have missed--or anything that could give me some Humanity. I don't even care about being human at all anymore--I just wanna be able to have 10 Estus.

It was then that I spotted this, off in the distance:

Hmm...

Some kind of giant... fairy... nymph... thing. It was just floating there in place, like it was waiting for something. I couldn't just walk up to it, though; there's a big crevice between us, so I looked around for a way that might allow me to reach it. If you notice, it's hugging this fortified curtain wall-looking structure, which appears to be bridging the gap between our two locations--except it's way too high up for me to access. Plus, there's a lot of shit in the way, such that I can't even see where I'd have to go to climb up the wall. Who knows--maybe I missed a fucking ladder in plain sight, or something.

I like to think of myself as an observant person, but this game sometimes makes me question myself. Not having a map or anything certainly doesn't help--I've been spoiled by Zelda over the years.

Anyway, I kept note of what I saw here, and I'll be sure to get to the bottom of this later.


4. The Monastery

I reached the monastery. You know, I'm only calling it a monastery--I'm not sure if that's what it is, but it's a big-ass building with a lot of religious imagery, including what appears to be an altar, so that's just what I'm going to call it.

Like I said before--the reason I haven't already explored this place is because I assumed I wasn't prepared for it yet. A sorcerer up on the balcony begins firing bolts of magic at you once you enter, and none of my shields could even withstand it. I referred to it as "ice" earlier, but someone informed me that it's just regular magic. They didn't have ice magic yet, apparently. There's also a trio of redcapes that are quite annoying to deal with all at once, let alone with someone firing shit at me from above.

I haven't really spoke about the types of redcapes I've been seeing. Basically, there's redcapes with big balder shields, who are incredibly easy to deal with because of their laggy attacks--and then there's the ones with bucklers. These ones, for some inexplicable reason, can take a lot more abuse, and are a lot more skilled in terms of combat. They're fun to fight and all, but it's rare that I'm able to go toe-to-toe with one without needing at least one sip of Estus.

Anyway, I decided to enter the monastery from the west side instead. Is it even the west side? I don't even know, I just made that up. I just mean the other side--the side that allows me to take the balder knights one on one, instead of all at once. That side. Once I did that, it was just me and the sorcerer dude--or so I thought.

Over at the altar, I spotted an item for me to pick up. I figured, you know what? I could probably just outrun the magic shots if I sprinted up to it, so that's what I did--and what I picked up ended up being a Fire Keeper Soul.

Now, uh... You guys are gonna hate me for this one. I didn't realize it at the time, so I had to be told later that I completely cocked up here. I don't even want to say it directly--I'll just let the conversation speak for itself.


V: I just found the coolest thing.

A: Oh? What's that?

V: A Fire Keeper Soul.

A: Ah, nice. Gonna boost your Estus healing with that?

V: Yeah, I already have. It's only a tiny boost, though. What I like better is that it gives you five Humanity.

A: ...What?

V: It gives you five Humanity. See? I've never had this much before. I'm gonna go on a kindling spree.

A: ...Uh, Jake?... You realize...




You know, I got a bone to pick with From about that, actually. I just have to vent about this, and I know this is probably going to result in another argument, but I don't care. I'm getting this opinion out there, because this kinda pissed me off. You wanna have an item that you have to bring to another NPC? That's absolutely fine. If I want improved healing, I should have to do a little bit more than just picking up an item. So that's fine.

What you shouldn't be able to do is consume it for an exponentially worse prize. Really--why is that even a thing? I went ahead and googled the phrases, "i consumed my first fire keeper soul" and "i used my first fire keeper soul," and I found hundreds of people just like me who got duped by this beginner's trap. And that's what it is: A beginner's trap.

Look at this description:

Soul of a long-lost Fire Keeper.

Each Fire Keeper is a corporeal manifestation
of her bonfire, and a draw for the humanity
which is offered to her. Her soul is gnawed
by infinite humanity, and can boost the power
of precious Estus Flasks. Reinforced Estus
Flasks capture denser Estus, allowing for
increased restoration of HP.

Now, I don't believe I've ever met any Fire Keepers at this point. Pretty sure I haven't. In my experience with reading weapon descriptions, the first sentence is usually just a throwaway. It usually describes in general what the item is, and maybe gives you a piece of lore. Nothing important. Even then, it's kinda awkwardly worded, and a little vague. Meanwhile, the very next sentence basically says, "this item can boost the power of Estus."

So, to me, that's a sign that just screams "USE IT USE IT USE IT," so that's what I did. What it never points out is that, when you consume it, it gives you five Humanity, but it can no longer be used to boost your Estus. It never makes that clear.

But, yeah, yeah, okay. I know. I know. I know. Dark Souls can do no wrong. I know. I know. I know. I know. It's my fault for being dumb. I know. I know. I know. Dark Souls is perfect and I just need to get good. I know. I know.

Even when I pretend that the description made any sense, it still begs the question--why are you able to waste such a preciously important item like that anyway!? The guy I was talking to brought up NG+. If you're playing on NG+, you probably have no use for Fire Keeper Souls, because you already have the best Estus Flask. So it gives you the alternative of gaining some Humanity instead, just so you don't have useless shit in your inventory. Okay, fine.

Here's my contention: In a game like Zelda--I'm gonna go with Majora's Mask, because it's the easiest example. In Majora's Mask, you have the ability to turn back time. This means that you can actually re-open chests that you've already opened before. But what happens if you re-open a chest that gives you an important quest item that you already have in your inventory? Do you get two of that item? No, you just get a blue rupee instead.

That's kinda how I wish it would work here. On your first playthrough, you should not even be able to consume your Fire Keeper Souls. In NG+, once you've beaten the game, all of the Fire Keeper Souls that you've already received benefits from will now just give you five Humanity instead. Is that okay? Or would that somehow violate the integrity and the sanctity of the game?

I don't even give a fuck. All I know is that, the way it is now, it's set up like an unfair beginner's trap, and I have hundreds of people to back me up on that. It's apparently a common flub.

/rant

So, the guy I was talking to is telling me about this, and we get into a bit of an argument about it, and in the end, he actually agrees with my suggestion. He does feel that it's a little unfair, and that the game should make it a little clearer to you that you're making a big mistake if you just consume it absentmindedly.

He was telling me that I should just start over. Make a completely new character and just start over, because the game is going to be exponentially more difficult for me now. I'm not going to, unless you guys think I should. I refuse to believe that the game is going to be impossible now because I missed out on a single boost. That would piss me off even more, to be honest, because that's just all the more reason not to allow first-timers to consume it right away.

I figured I should at least make the most of the Humanity I gained. Looking at the bright side, this is the first time I've had more than one measly Humanity to work with. So, I went to the bonfire in the old church, went human, and finall kindled the damn thing. The nicest thing about kindling is that, even if you're hollowed, you still receive 10 Estus, which is nice.

I was having trouble getting over that BS, though. I came back to this thread and searched the term "fire keeper" in the search bar, just to see if anyone gave me any warning about them before.

And, well...

Oh Verb

Never ever consume Firekeeper Souls, they're used to boost the substance of each Estus sip

Game never tells you that and once you use it, you can't take it back

...Turns out I was warned by Luci, three months ago. <_<

I just completely forgot. Fuck if I could remember some little detail someone told me back in January.

In a way, though, that makes me feel a little bit better, because the fact that someone would even warn me about it just goes to show that there's a lot of people who made the same exact mistake as me. I'll take solace in that.

It's my first big irreversible fuck-up, but whatever. It is what it is. I've pretty much accepted it at this point.


Since I accessed by bonfire, I had to refight all those redcapes again back in the monastery. Keeping the sorcerer in my sights, I dashed to the other side of the building, where I spotted a little open room. It turned out to be an elevator. I'm like, "FUCK, am I even ready for this!?"

Turned out to be okay. It descended quite a ways down, but eventually, I ended up back in Firelink Shrine, which kinda blew my mind. So now I have a shortcut to this place--awesome.

Heading back up, I noticed a case of stairs leading up to the monastery's balcony, where the sorcerer was camping. I dueled a couple balder knights along the way, and came across this foreboding narrow hallway. It was here that I began hearing lots of moaning, which kinda freaked me out.

Then, out from a corner comes a horde of hollowed undead, who must have been conjured up by the sorcerer, who was playing ring leader. He was... a lot taller than I anticipated, but he was easy enough to kill. Even his army of hollows didn't pose much of a threat. After killing him, I began looting the joint. Of the things I found, only two were worthy of note: A prisoner, and a particularly ominous white veil.

For some reason, I had the key to the prisoner's little brig--the Mystery Key. I remember picking it up, but I don't remember exactly where I found it. Anyway, he thanked me for my trouble, and introduced himself as Lautrec of Carim. While thanking me, he told me that he would reward me "later." Whatever that means. Kinda gives me a bad feeling. Maybe the guy was locked up for a good reason. I can't just assume he's a good guy, right? This is Dark Souls. Ehh. I'm sure I'll meet him sometime again down the line.

As for the white veil, I'm not fucking with it right now. I noticed a summon sign, so that probably means trouble. I'll deal with it later--I still need 20,000 souls to collect first before I start taking dumb risks. I have ~7000 at this point.


I decided to visit the Undead Burg once again, attempting to sate this itching notion that I still need to lurk around there a little more. I intended to include that whole part in this update, but this is already getting too long because of that rant. I'll post about it tomorrow instead, and then we'll be completely up to date.

Oh Verb

Never ever consume Firekeeper Souls, they're used to boost the substance of each Estus sip

Game never tells you that and once you use it, you can't take it back

The description of the first one literally tells you this.

She was talking about how it doesn't tell you what happens when you consume it yourself.

Which it doesn't. The description says nothing about it. Beginner's trap.

You get a couple more fire keeper souls along the way, so it's not the end of the world. It's kindling bonfires (impossible to skip, consumes humanity) that is a real benefit.

And don't fear the fog gates. They lead to bosses, and bosses lead to greatness.

You get a couple more fire keeper souls along the way, so it's not the end of the world. It's kindling bonfires (impossible to skip, consumes humanity) that is a real benefit.

And don't fear the fog gates. They lead to bosses, and bosses lead to greatness.

Yeah, but they have a tendency of trapping you in, as well. I'm trying to get 20K souls. If I end up in a position where I'm unable to recover my shit, because the veil prevents me from retreating (which was the case for the Taurus demon), then I'm kinda fucked for no reason. I really want that Artorias Crest, Turkey.

I mean, I guess I have that Homeward Bone...

Also, that guy I was arguing with, he made it sound like I needed every single Fire Keeper Soul. Otherwise, the game's going to be too hard. So that's not true? Are those just the words of someone who is overly-reliant on healing?

Because if it's not even a big deal, I'm gonna feel really silly for ranting about it so much.

Also, that guy I was arguing with, he made it sound like I needed every single Fire Keeper Soul. Otherwise, the game's going to be too hard. So that's not true? Are those just the words of someone who is overly-reliant on healing?

Well it's a decent benefit (they increase the amount of health a flask restores), but with a melee build it's less necessary. Inevitably in any Dark Souls game you get to a point (about 2/3 of the way through) where you're so chock full of souls and upgraded gear that challenges don't come from having to chug estus, but from other factors.

If you really want that crest right now (perhaps, hypothetically, jumping a bit ahead of the typical beginner path), don't forget about the consumable souls you've been finding along the way (NOT boss souls, please for the love of god don't consume those).

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Yeah, I don't remember seeing a Fire Keeper at the shrine. If you talk to her and she says something like, "Bring me Fire Keeper Souls," then all is (mostly) forgiven. I still don't think you should even be able to consume it in the first place, unless you're NG+.

I'm glad this doesn't mark the end of the playthrough, though. I got a couple of kindled bonfires out of it, so whatever.

Oh Verb

Never ever consume Firekeeper Souls, they're used to boost the substance of each Estus sip

Game never tells you that and once you use it, you can't take it back

The description of the first one literally tells you this.

She was talking about how it doesn't tell you what happens when you consume it yourself.

Which it doesn't. The description says nothing about it. Beginner's trap.

I actually went to look and see if the game tells you she is a firekeeper, and for a while I thought it was just a beginners trap. Turns out the game will tell you what she is, after trying to speak with her, and then talking to the Crestfallen warrior you get this dialogue.

Oh, have you seen that terribly morose lass?
… The Fire Keeper.
She's stuck keeping that bonfire lit.
Sad, really. She's mute and bound to this forsaken place.
They probably cut her tongue out back in her village, so that she'd never say any god's name in vain.
How do these martyrs keep chugging along? I'd peter out in an instant.
Hah hah hah hah…

On top of this, when you can interact with the fire keeper, right from the start of the game, it gives you the option to try and upgrade your flask. To which this message will show up upon having no souls. "Fire Keeper Soul require to enforce Estus Flask".

It's not a trap, it just requires you to explore firelink and talk to everyone you can.

However, if I am wrong and you can't have the option to try and upgrade your flask from the start, then yes, it could be considered a trap.

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I just fucked myself. Updates by tonight, but I'll just say one thing--I ain't grinding for the Crest of Artorias anymore.

I have a new task, and I hope to complete it by tonight, so we'll have a "fuller" update.

Looks like you got the bad luck with the Fire Keeper soul.

damn

Not counting the asylum demon, are there any bosses you guys have managed to defeat on your first try?

Not counting the asylum demon, are there any bosses you guys have managed to defeat on your first try?

Not sure if you count it as spoilers, but without cheesing and on my first playthrough, I killed the following first try:
-Capra Demon
-Bell Gargoyles
-Four Kings
-Gaping Dragon
-Artorias
-Pinwheel
-Moonlight Butterfly
-Gwyn
-Bed of Chaos

That was running a dex/pyro build, and some of those fights are just straight up gimme's (Butterfuly, Bed of Chaos, & Pinwheel).

The bosses that still give me the biggest trouble to this day are Kalameet, Sif, and Quelaag.

Hey Verb, I know you've been trying to make your virgin playthrough sacrosanct and spoiler-free, but I honestly think you'd get more enjoyment out of it at least following a basic walkthrough of which areas to progress through in what order.

Actually, if you (or somebody) could just give me a list of every boss in the game--or just the ones that are necessary to beat the game--just to give me a sense of progression, that could be helpful.

Unless you feel like it could be too spoiler-y, like if a boss's name has plot significance for a twist or... something.

Actually, if you (or somebody) could just give me a list of every boss in the game--or just the ones that are necessary to beat the game--just to give me a sense of progression, that could be helpful.

Unless you feel like it could be too spoiler-y, like if a boss's name has plot significance for a twist or... something.

Sure:

Asylum Demon
Taurus Demon
Bell Gargoyles
Capra Demon
*Gaping Dragon
*Havel
*Moonlight Butterfly
*Hydra (Darkroot Basin)
Sif
*Stray Demon
Quelaag
*Hydra (Ash Lake)
Iron Golem
Ornstein & Smough
*Crossbreed Priscilla
*Dark Sun Gwyndolin
Seathe the Scaleless
Four Kings
Pinwheel
Gravelord Nito
Ceaseless Discharge
*Demon Firesage
*Centipede Demon
Bed of Chaos
Gwyn

* = optional

After the first third of the game you can tackle each area in any order you want, with a couple exceptions.

Havel isn't a boss.

Havel isn't a boss.

Cant stop
wont stop

Havel isn't a boss.

Neither are the hydras, but they're worth being on the list.

Havel isn't a boss.

Cant stop
wont stop

IF YOU SMEEEEEEELL
WHAT THE ROCK
IS COOKIN'

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Actually, if you (or somebody) could just give me a list of every boss in the game--or just the ones that are necessary to beat the game--just to give me a sense of progression, that could be helpful.

Unless you feel like it could be too spoiler-y, like if a boss's name has plot significance for a twist or... something.

Sure:

Asylum Demon
Taurus Demon
Bell Gargoyles
Capra Demon
Gaping Dragon
*Havel
*Moonlight Butterfly
*Hydra (Darkroot Basin)
Sif
*Stray Demon
Quelaag
*Hydra (Ash Lake)
Iron Golem
Ornstein & Smough
*Crossbreed Priscilla
*Dark Sun Gwyndolin
Seathe the Scaleless
Four Kings
Pinwheel
Gravelord Nito
Ceaseless Discharge
Demon Firesage
Centipede Demon
Bed of Chaos
Gwyn

* = optional

After the first third of the game you can tackle each area in any order you want, with a couple exceptions.

There's a lot more optional bosses than just those, btw.

Those are all the bosses in the base game, with a couple mini-bosses thrown in. There aren't any other actual bosses.

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Actually, if you (or somebody) could just give me a list of every boss in the game--or just the ones that are necessary to beat the game--just to give me a sense of progression, that could be helpful.

Unless you feel like it could be too spoiler-y, like if a boss's name has plot significance for a twist or... something.

* = optional

After the first third of the game you can tackle each area in any order you want, with a couple exceptions.

There's a lot more optional bosses than just those, btw.

Those are all the bosses in the base game, with a couple mini-bosses thrown in. There aren't any other actual bosses.

I mean that your assessment of what bosses are optional or not is a bit off. Taurus, Capra, Gaping Dragon, Ceaseless, Firesage and Centipede are all entirely optional and legitimately skippable. Pinwheel is too, but he requires a bug to avoid so I'm not including him.

How are Taurus, Ceaseless, Firesage and Centipede optional?

Spoiler

I thought you had to kill Ceaseless to lower the lava, then kill the Centipede to get the ring to cross lava

You don't get a boss soul from Taurus when you kill him (I didn't, anyway), so maybe that defines it?