Quote from: Sovereign Citizen Kane on May 02, 2017, 09:14:31 AM

"A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

i think the trail of tears was a bit much

Cheorkee had two years given to them to vacate voluntarily before government sanctioned aggression would be employed.

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on May 02, 2017, 11:43:42 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 02, 2017, 10:57:49 AM

Quote from: Sovereign Citizen Kane on May 02, 2017, 09:14:31 AM

"A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

i think the trail of tears was a bit much

Cheorkee had two years given to them to vacate voluntarily before government sanctioned aggression would be employed.

fuck the government

NAP doesn't apply to hippies, and Injuns were the OG hippy fucks.

Quote from: Verbatim on May 02, 2017, 10:57:49 AM

Quote from: Sovereign Citizen Kane on May 02, 2017, 09:14:31 AM

"A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

i think the trail of tears was a bit much

Cheorkee had two years given to them to vacate voluntarily before government sanctioned aggression would be employed.

how nice

Make way for my opinion, guys. I got a 5 on my AP US history exam. I think I know what I'm talking about.

Evil is evil. 99% of people in the classical era were evil for being okay with the extremely fucked up shit going on, and while that number got smaller as the world moved on and did less evil things, it doesnt absolve what's right and wrong.

A wolf who viciously kills a rabbit when it could've eaten something else is evil, even though it doesnt have a choice (just following instincts) and can't be blamed for being evil. In the same way, a politician who treats people as subhuman and massacres them is evil, even though he has less of a choice in it than us (just following society/upbringing), and can't really be blamed for being evil.

But that doesn't mean we have to glorify the wolf, or the politician.

Quote from: SecondClass on May 04, 2017, 12:27:06 PM

Evil is evil. 99% of people in the classical era were evil for being okay with the extremely fucked up shit going on, and while that number got smaller as the world moved on and did less evil things, it doesnt absolve what's right and wrong.

A wolf who viciously kills a rabbit when it could've eaten something else is evil, even though it doesnt have a choice (just following instincts) and can't be blamed for being evil. In the same way, a politician who treats people as subhuman and massacres them is evil, even though he has less of a choice in it than us (just following society/upbringing), and can't really be blamed for being evil.

But that doesn't mean we have to glorify the wolf, or the politician.

I think it's a little silly to say the Wolf is evil even though it had no choice in the matter.

Maybe, but it's still true. A schitzophrenic man who thinks ogres are attacking him with chainsaws and kills them all in self defense, and then it turns out they were kids in a playground, is still evil - even though he can't be blamed for it and he had no choice

Sometimes people are evil and it's not their fault. There was no way for them to stop it or even know what they did was wrong, but it still happened

Quote from: audrey on May 04, 2017, 12:51:11 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 04, 2017, 12:27:06 PM

Evil is evil. 99% of people in the classical era were evil for being okay with the extremely fucked up shit going on, and while that number got smaller as the world moved on and did less evil things, it doesnt absolve what's right and wrong.

A wolf who viciously kills a rabbit when it could've eaten something else is evil, even though it doesnt have a choice (just following instincts) and can't be blamed for being evil. In the same way, a politician who treats people as subhuman and massacres them is evil, even though he has less of a choice in it than us (just following society/upbringing), and can't really be blamed for being evil.

But that doesn't mean we have to glorify the wolf, or the politician.

I think it's a little silly to say the Wolf is evil even though it had no choice in the matter.

Maybe, but it's still true. A schitzophrenic man who thinks ogres are attacking him with chainsaws and kills them all in self defense, and then it turns out they were kids in a playground, is still evil - even though he can't be blamed for it and he had no choice

Sometimes people are evil and it's not their fault. There was no way for them to stop it or even know what they did was wrong, but it still happened

Personally I think the person's intent determines whether they are evil or not.

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on May 04, 2017, 01:29:36 PM

Calling something evil is a moot point in a deterministic multiverse.

but so is calling things moot

yup. Nothing matters, evil cant be blamed, and your achievements aren't even yours.

I can't tell if Hiroshimoot is better or not.

But Moot still killed people so there's that.

moot lied, people died

Quote from: Ian on May 01, 2017, 10:29:55 PM

One can not deny the tremendous amount negativity General Jackson has caused. However "Evil" is not as black and white as you make it out to be. Jackson is controversial, but he also did a lot of net good for the country and that is also undeniable. He is merely a product of the era he was from, and one should remember that when judging former leaders.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:27:17 PM

jackson is one of the most evil motherfuckers to ever preside as president of the USA, and that's a position with a lot of evil motherfuckers.

a genocidal maniac="merely a product of the era he was from"

lol k

The environment and society you are born into and grow up in has a very significant bearing on the kind of person you turn out to be. If you had been born in Nazi Germany then the chance that you would've been a Nazi is very high. (Assuming you weren't Jewish)

It's wise to understand that all of us, as humans, are capable of terrible malice. Even the best of us. It isn't just psychopaths devoid of empathy and morality that have such a capacity.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: Ian on May 01, 2017, 10:29:55 PM

One can not deny the tremendous amount negativity General Jackson has caused. However "Evil" is not as black and white as you make it out to be. Jackson is controversial, but he also did a lot of net good for the country and that is also undeniable. He is merely a product of the era he was from, and one should remember that when judging former leaders.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:27:17 PM

jackson is one of the most evil motherfuckers to ever preside as president of the USA, and that's a position with a lot of evil motherfuckers.

a genocidal maniac="merely a product of the era he was from"

lol k

The environment and society you are born into and grow up in has a very significant bearing on the kind of person you turn out to be. If you had been born in Nazi Germany then the chance that you would've been a Nazi is very high. (Assuming you weren't Jewish)

It's wise to understand that all of us, as humans, are capable of terrible malice. Even the best of us. It isn't just psychopaths devoid of empathy and morality that have such a capacity.

It's also worth noting that if you're a meat eater, then you're probably going to be considered evil by society in the next several decades or so.

Might makes right fuck the natives