Justifying Riots

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Forgive me if the quotations end up messy, I don't normally reply below quotes.

They technically aren't. But they are slowed almost to the point that it's not possible, as I explained, the barriers that exist for a poor person compared to an extravagantly wealthy one are different and designed for to generate failure for one side of the coin.
I wont say there aren't barriers for entry because there certainly is. One day I'd like to try for a public office but income is certainly a big gate in my way, but I also feel that it isn't the impossible hurdle other people (not necessarily you) make it out to be.

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This examples is moot because housing should be considered an essential access point for all human beings. And if it's classified as essential, it shouldn't be bottom of the barrel shit. You shouldn't have to run hoops to land "average" housing at best.
Yes I believe housing is a necessity, I guess my wording is poor. If one has the income to afford better housing I see no reason why they shouldn't go for it.

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Money should not be a relevant factor in what education you should be able to access. Your ability to access education should be based off your actual ability to learn in your field. This is a moot point for having wealth.
True, education should be free to obtain, especially if you're producing good grades. Scholarships & grants help tremendously with this. What I mean though is that the money you invest in your own education can be multiplied later down the road; it doesn't even have to be college/technical school either. I mentioned in another thread how I wanted to take clarinet lessons, if I did that and wound up making money from playing the clarinet, it's the same result albeit probably on a lower scale.

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Exactly. Do you see the point of failure in this scenario? If the only incentive for a CEO or for somebody, anybody, to do something because they acquire wealth of income is wealth of income alone, then it's an entirely pointless existence and exercise. Society as it exists today is not founded on what we as human beings desire or need to grow, but instead a lure that we hope grants us access to certain doorways to a better life, as well as fundamental to daily survival. This is an incorrect mode of operation.

The only actual reason to do anything, especially a job, should be for the sake of a job or task itself, and achieving the highest quality that you are able to. Requiring a crutch to bait you along into doing work you don't really want to do, for the sake of earning something that's made necessary for survival is a morally shit move and it's totally redundant. Imagine for a second if I operated on your point of logic.

Why should I bother getting up in the morning and going to do my job if the pay's not good enough when my body is falling apart? Why should I bother having compassion for human beings around me if I'm not getting paid for it? Why should I do anything at all if I don't get paid for it? Much of existence can be a pain in the ass, so why am I not being paid for it?
When you say what is necessary to grow, do you mean collectively as a species or individually? Regardless at the end of the day, someone's goal in life should be their own endeavor and that it should be what they want that makes them happy. If someone wants to become an astronaut, they're going to need a lot of studying and training on their part, but at the same time, a lot goes into making such a thing possible other than the individuals drive and money is the easiest way to obtain what's necessary for it.

I will agree that money/income is obsessed a little too much, but at the same time it's a convenient tool to help us procure not only goods & services but necessities for survival as well. Such basic necessities (at least in the first world) are also incredibly inexpensive, an average bag of potatoes is $5 and if you don't like a certain brand, then good news there's five other brands you may prefer with a marginally higher/lower price point, all still inexpensive. But securing wealth/money isn't just for you. Most of us want to start a family and maybe raise a kid, children are expensive but more so if you want to give them the things you were unable to have in life. I don't think there's anybody that would argue that it's wrong to want to raise your kids in an environment better than your own; there's probably very few people in the world (if any) that live in a manner that is completely satisfactory and they wouldn't want something better for their children.

As for drive, there's probably more to it than just money but that helps us get what we really want. I want a really really nice house for myself, and to afford several different really expensive hobbies. Well I'm gonna need money for that and getting a job and then moving onto higher positions is the one of the easier ways to getting the money for those things that I really want. For me personally, I also like the challenge that comes along with it and seeing just how far I can go. Six years ago, I didn't even have a license and I was leeching off my mom while I worked part-time, I had no idea I would even make it this far. That really drove me to see how far I can get if I took my ambition and kicked it into overdrive.

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Nowhere did I say that working hard is a meme. Fucking believe me dude I know what working hard is. I spent five years on the streets and homeless and now I'm working double jobs and clocking in at 112 hour work weeks. My house is currently a truck with a truck camper. The amount of effort it's taken to pull myself back from what I came from is very real. I put the time in, and now I'm here. However, a person can work hard and still achieve nothing if they're working in a system that's designed to be counter-intuitive. Our system is designed to be counter intuitive.

These quoted success stories only exist because these people were willing to sacrifice tremendously to get to their level. And this ultimately is the problem. People shouldn't have to sacrifice their timespan, their lifespan, in a grind to achieve even moderate levels of comfort. As a human being, it should be one's responsibility to make the journey for all other lives around yours easier, not difficult. Society at large does not do this in spades.
I didn't say it was you specifically, sorry if you thought I meant you said that. But there is a notion with a lot of people that such a line of thinking is just fantasy. And while there should be a bare-minimum that everyone is entitled to when it comes to necessities like food & shelter, there should be work put in if people want more luxurious standards for themselves. Whether it be from necessity or personal greed, I don't think wanting more when it's available is innately wrong, especially if you put in the effort for it.

And I'll also say some of the ones that advocate for things like "The American Dream" and "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" are the biggest hypocrites on the matter. President Obama is one of the biggest examples of The American Dream and the Republican right couldn't stand seeing it.

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I never said slashing his pay was required. There are many other measures that can and should be taken other than slashing pay. The measures I'm talking about are a total restructuring of how our system operates. A total change in values, morals and what really counts in life.
Like I said, it's not you specifically; but not having an executive with such a huge salary is the quickest band-aid solution for opponents of the current system. I'll just say that things are great but it can always be better, and I think there's a lot in our current system that we take for granted or being completely blind to (such as cheap groceries and financial aid for higher education).

And I do agree that there's a lack of morality but there's even less common sense these days and I'd personally put that as a higher priority.


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Here's your Monkey's Paw Fedorekd. When I get my hands on entertainment/media products Treasure Planet 2 is #3 on my list of things I plan to get done right behind releasing Song of The South in all forms of media possible and killing Marvel Studios.

Ian can you get them to make Treasure Planet 2 for me.


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I wont say there aren't barriers for entry because there certainly is. One day I'd like to try for a public office but income is certainly a big gate in my way, but I also feel that it isn't the impossible hurdle other people (not necessarily you) make it out to be.

That's not the point on whether or not it's an impossible hurdle. It's an unnecessary hurdle that isn't needed. And we have to look at something else that's important. People are not equal. This is a fact. Not everybody has the mental capacity, the physical condition, or many of the other factors required to be disgustingly wealthy. Whose right is to say exactly, "Yes, you're required to spend your days as a walmart greeter because this is all you're physically or intellectually capable of, and therefore will be subject always to the bare minimum of living standards because of it, have a great life." Nobody is saying it but this is a trap many people live in. For whatever reasons they're incapable of going further in things, they are very effectively punished for factors that they may have zero control over, such as intelligence and the ability to learn.

And while we're at it, so long as we're talking about inequality, let's talk disparity. Hypothetical for you. Let us assume for one second that every human being has the capability to be a big shot ceo or upper managment, and they all take the opportunity. What happens? Stagnation and job shortages, because there can only physically be a certain percentage of upper management before none are needed.

Therefore, if we're to draw the line that people can have success stories and be wealthy, that it's not impossible, we have to acknowledge a critical reality. There can and only be a percentage of them that have access to these doorways due to many various factors. So no matter what we do, as long as we exist in a monetary based system of operation there will be forced disparity. Somebody will be forced against their will to draw the losing hand. And that's not right.

All of this stems from one underlying fundament we haven't talked about yet. It isn't so much the issue of wealth, as it is class. You cannot deny the intrinsic nature of human beings to compete and to "outclass" one another in what we perceive as being above other people. This is a part of human nature many struggle to let go of. The excessively rich are tremendously guilty of this. Assume for a second that there's a cap on monetary income that anybody can make. The cap is based from average to high end earnings, so that there is still a level of disparity from top to bottom, but there's a rationalized ceiling as to how high you can get on the totem.

This would destroy the notion of class somewhat. If Bill Gates, Donald Trump, and an average joe have a ceiling of money they can all reach together, it makes them equal. And that's why we don't have a ceiling of money to be reached for personal wealth. The excessively wealthy don't want to be equal because they have a psychological need to be above. This is a character flaw reflecting on our system as a whole.

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it's a convenient tool to help us procure not only goods & services but necessities for survival as well.
That's incorrect. It is a mechanism that needlessly hinders us. When we have point A and B, income is just adding A 1.5 into the middle of the road and saying that it gets things done for us and that it's necessary. Here's a thought for you. Point A is a service. Point B is the need or wants of the people.

Take point A and turn it into a job. Everybody gets a job because everybody needs to contribute somehow. As long as you provide for point A by doing your job, you get access to point A, not based off of income, but based off the fact that you're putting the work in to keep point A functioning, which therefore helps fullfill and create point B, which is then provided to anybody who simply works and takes part in the system.

This is efficiency taken to it's logical maximum that provides the highest possibility of comfort achieved for everybody with no additional steps added. What I describe here is a convenient process and tool. Income is not. It is tremendously inefficient.

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As for drive, there's probably more to it than just money but that helps us get what we really want.
See my posts above as to why this is not the case. And I provide for you more thoughts to ponder. Somebody asked me once what my dream career was. I told them my dream career would be to have a quiet homestead in which I can tend to the property myself, live in a home I built myself using methods I learned or taught myself, and be as disconnected from the world as possible while still having access to information to study and learn new things. And then I told them that I don't get paid to do that until I'm 60.

So what I'm required to do to achieve this dream career of mine is subject myself to a totally needless grind for thirty more years and actually gamble that I'll be alive by then to enjoy it, on top of gambling that I'll magically have enough income to pay for all of this shit. Or, if I'm super motivated and ruthless, play the board game, make a shit ton of money and then settle down and live my dream career.

When inherently, before the concept of income came to be, you could do the bulk of this naturally. Except that now you can't. Let's assume for a moment that I forsake the cash road and actually do all of this by myself. Teach myself everything I need to make this dream come true, and then go out and do it. Well colour me fucked because I need money to buy land, and then once I buy it I will be required to pay taxes based off the designated monetary value of the land, plus whatever additional structures I build on said land. I'll need permits to create anything of custom work or to acquire the raw resources, such as trees, stone, etc. No matter what move I make I am subjected to shelling out cash somewhere.

And the big flaw I find in all of this was that I never agreed to any of it. Nowhere in my life did I sign any papers that said, "Yes please charge me taxes and expenses using an imaginary medium that also happens to be necessary for day to day life." I was simply born and dropped into this system with zero consent to it and expected to be a willing participant to all of it. So in my case, and I'm sure many other people's income is what stands in the way of them actually doing what they want with their lives and adding a totally useless feature.

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When you say what is necessary to grow, do you mean collectively as a species or individually?
Both. The species can't grow without growth from the individual. And the growth of the individual is important if we're to live in a sane and better world.



 
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
Gonna go to the local protest tomorrow with a "PORK FAT RULES" sign and hope to get on the news


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The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Riots aren't performed by homogeneous groups with a specific goal, it's an emotional reaction to structural issues. Trying to qualify the intentions/goals of protestors by the actions of rioters avoids addressing why people are angry enough to start burning things to the ground. Doesn't help that there is clearly a lot of pigs with pent up aggression waiting for a chance to crack skulls instead of "maintaining the peace".


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I really don't understand how destroying your own community is supposed to help it, but I don't necessarily think that rioters are trying to help the community anyways. It's a shame that those peacefully protesting will have their cause sullied by the actions of a  violent minority of people and that their protests will be shut down to stop the violence.

The thing is, I imagine a lot of riots are instigated by police showing up in riot gear to protests where rioting hasn't happened. I do wonder if they avoided doing that would a riot even break out to begin with.


 
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.
Kinda suspected something like this was going on, but:
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1266758240018276352
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/

I've been following this stuff pretty closely since Thursday night. In case you haven't found out already, the people that started the violence weren't part of the protesters.

Exhibit A:
YouTube

https://twitter.com/dyllyp/status/1266166402521522176/
https://twitter.com/dyllyp/status/1266167967865286656/

There have been other instances of people that clearly weren't part of the larger group starting violence, but this is the most publicized one right now.


Also, some lovely behavior from our men in blue:
https://twitter.com/MidwestUSNews/status/1266559270281240576
https://twitter.com/vikthewild/status/1266538354939756544


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I was just about to say, for the most part in Minneapolis damage to local businesses was indirect due to spreading fires that were possibly started under suspicious circumstances. as for the protests in other cities there's a lot of video evidence of sketchy white guys doing a lot of the property damage


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
Kinda suspected something like this was going on, but:
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1266758240018276352
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/

I've been following this stuff pretty closely since Thursday night. In case you haven't found out already, the people that started the violence weren't part of the protesters.
I've heard that most of the non-local rioters are actually white. There's just something really awful about the idea of a bunch of white people from out of state burning down black communities and giving the nation the impression that black people are doing it themselves.

I wonder who could be organizing something like that. Is it really just opportunistic people coming of their own volition?
The governor of Minnesota has already stated he believes outside outside forces are trying to incite greater levels of violence.

There's a video going around of a random neatly stacked pile of bricks in front of a court house where no construction is happening and there is seemingly no reason for them to be there. They guy filming calls it a setup in the video.


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also worth mentioning, i got a friend who literally works (or worked) at that ML target that got trashed. she isnt really bothered lol she doesnt know if she still has a job yet but if not she'll just file for unemployment


 
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.
Kinda suspected something like this was going on, but:
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1266758240018276352
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/

I've been following this stuff pretty closely since Thursday night. In case you haven't found out already, the people that started the violence weren't part of the protesters.
I've heard that most of the non-local rioters are actually white. There's just something really awful about the idea of a bunch of white people from out of state burning down black communities and giving the nation the impression that black people are doing it themselves.

I wonder who could be organizing something like that. Is it really just opportunistic people coming of their own volition?
The governor of Minnesota has already stated he believes outside outside forces are trying to incite greater levels of violence.

There's a video going around of a random neatly stacked pile of bricks in front of a court house where no construction is happening and there is seemingly no reason for them to be there. They guy filming calls it a setup in the video.
From the article I posted:



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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours


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I really don't understand how destroying your own community is supposed to help it, but I don't necessarily think that rioters are trying to help the community anyways. It's a shame that those peacefully protesting will have their cause sullied by the actions of a  violent minority of people and that their protests will be shut down to stop the violence.

The thing is, I imagine a lot of riots are instigated by police showing up in riot gear to protests where rioting hasn't happened. I do wonder if they avoided doing that would a riot even break out to begin with.

Despite the outcome of a riot it's a common tactic for undercover police to instigate a riot as it creates a means of creating a control group that can be isolated, observed and ultimately corralled into a specific location for the sole means of containment.

This is why I'm of the mind that rioting is a largely pointless act, as no matter how much damage a group does, they fail to realize that they're being manipulated into doing it to begin with. Rioting shifts blame onto peaceful protesters and gives a reason for them to be removed, and it accomplishes zero damage to large companies like target as they're insured financially against these scenarios. The cops starting the riots aren't any good, but the idiot people taking the bait and continuing the momentum are worse.


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as it turns out that ML target is still gonna give full pay to its employees in a surprisingly humble move so that was literally no big deal 


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All these violences and riots happen in Democrat states. I wonder why is that.


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
The issue: Police brutality.
Solution: Provoke police brutality.

What should be the actual solution? Hard to say.


 
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What should be the actual solution?
Lethal force in self-defense against state-sanctioned murder.


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
What should be the actual solution?
Lethal force in self-defense against state-sanctioned murder.
That's what the second amendment is for. Use your constitutional right to get rid of tyranny at state level.


 
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.


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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
The issue: Police brutality.
Solution: Provoke police brutality.

What should be the actual solution? Hard to say.
Existing at a protest ""provokes"" police brutality. How many people do we have to watch get run over by SUVs/shot/teargassed before we admit it's the police stoking violence?


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
The issue: Police brutality.
Solution: Provoke police brutality.

What should be the actual solution? Hard to say.
Existing at a protest ""provokes"" police brutality. How many people do we have to watch get run over by SUVs/shot/teargassed before we admit it's the police stoking violence?
If its semi-peaceful, cops have numerous examples where it went to shit.
My guess is that their order are to prevent that sort of escalation at all costs by breaking up large gathering via any less-lethal means.
The issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.


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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
The issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.
So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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https://twitter.com/LasVegasLocally/status/1267210841595604992

Okay, why is US turning into Russia?
Minnesota could use Putin right now. When it comes handling rioters.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
The issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.
So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?
Not defending the pig's behaviour but Nick does have a point about the prevalence of guns and gun culture in the states. Given how liberal it is for basically anyone and everyone to carry a firearm it would be really silly for the police not to come armed for the potentiality of self preservation.