Justifying Riots

MetaCognition | Member
 
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So, there are a couple of interesting questions raised by the rioting. First and foremost is: what is the nature of a riot like this? Is it a disorganised political movement, a reflexive act of rejection of an unjust system or mere opportunistic criminality? Perhaps some combination? When is it justifiable to riot? Further, is it justifiable for individuals of one community to participate in a riot whose genesis lies in injustice done to another community? (The white people currently rioting, for instance.) The final big question I see this as raising is whether the individual motivations of rioters are morally valent? Is a riot less legitimate if it is comprised with a proportionally larger set of opportunistic looters and antisocial types?

I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on these questions. For what it's worth, here are my takes, very briefly: riots (at least those like this) are essentially an expressive act of rejection against an unjust social order. There is no no aim--no goal--in the act of rioting, precisely because the rioting arises from the frustration of ordinary goal-directed activities. Accordingly, it is okay for people of one community to participate in a riot which has its genesis in the injustices against another community, so long as their participation represents a 'fitting attitude' to the injustice. Finally, the individual motivations of rioters are not particularly important for the moral assessment of riots as such: in being an expressive act of rejection, riots necessarily consist in wilful violation of public order. Looting, and the desire to loot, therefore, are not morally corrupting elements within given riots.


 
Verbatim
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i haven't been a fan of the amazing atheist for years now, but the video he just uploaded on this subject covers how i feel to a T and more or less answers all of your questions:

YouTube
Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 04:44:47 PM by Verbatim


MetaCognition | Member
 
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I can tell you like George Carlin.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I'll only bring up the first three minutes or so because there's quite a bit in that video worth discussing and I'd rather not bite off more than I want to chew (even though I could), and just say that I completely agree with him on not only Floyd's death but also the looting/rioting between mom & pop stores and big business stores. However the one thing I keep seeing constantly for years now is the comparison between a CEOs salary and an hourly employee's wage and I really wish this comparison would just stop. There's a lot more involved than just those two numbers, not to mention the eight or so ranks between these two individuals and their salaries/job descriptions and none of the other details are ever brought up even though it would show a more complete picture on how a "big business" is run because it mostly certainly runs significantly different than a small business.

YouTube


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Fuck big businesses and fuck the pigs. Rest in power George Floyd.
Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 05:46:17 PM by Mordo


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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I'll only bring up the first three minutes or so because there's quite a bit in that video worth discussing and I'd rather not bite off more than I want to chew (even though I could), and just say that I completely agree with him on not only Floyd's death but also the looting/rioting between mom & pop stores and big business stores. However the one thing I keep seeing constantly for years now is the comparison between a CEOs salary and an hourly employee's wage and I really wish this comparison would just stop. There's a lot more involved than just those two numbers, not to mention the eight or so ranks between these two individuals and their salaries/job descriptions and none of the other details are ever brought up even though it would show a more complete picture on how a "big business" is run because it mostly certainly runs significantly different than a small business.

YouTube



Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Fuck big businesses and fuck the pigs. Rest in power George Floyd.
Do we know how he died? He was conscious in those clips with the cops.


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One of these days you'll grow up.



Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
One of these days you'll grow up.

How's leather taste wagie?


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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How's leather taste wagie?
and just say that I completely agree with him on not only Floyd's death but also the looting/rioting between mom & pop stores and big business stores.

I wouldn't know but I imagine it tastes about the same as the milk being squeezed out of the public teat that you so vehemently defend.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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How's leather taste wagie?
and just say that I completely agree with him on not only Floyd's death but also the looting/rioting between mom & pop stores and big business stores.

I wouldn't know but I imagine it tastes about the same as the milk being squeezed out of the public teat that you so vehemently defend.
>as he defends a multi millionaire CEO's salary

Y-yes massa mouse, the big bad rioters are the real problem. Please let me go back to being a 12 dollar an hour wage slave massa. I'll be a good boi massa, I'll generate your profits for you. Massa treats me good mmhmm.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Tell me what is inherently wrong with a CEO making millions of dollars without using Reddit-tier soijack memes. Bonus points if you're able to bring up other positions on the corporate ladder instead of just the basic entry-level ones and their salaries as well.

>as he defends a multi millionaire CEO's salary

Y-yes massa mouse, the big bad rioters are the real problem. Please let me go back to being a 12 dollar an hour wage slave massa. I'll be a good boi massa, I'll generate your profits for you. Massa treats me good mmhmm.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Tell me what is inherently wrong with a CEO making millions of dollars without using Reddit-tier soijack memes. Bonus points if you're able to bring up other positions on the corporate ladder instead of just the basic entry-level ones and their salaries as well.

>as he defends a multi millionaire CEO's salary

Y-yes massa mouse, the big bad rioters are the real problem. Please let me go back to being a 12 dollar an hour wage slave massa. I'll be a good boi massa, I'll generate your profits for you. Massa treats me good mmhmm.
Tell me why CEOs deserve such grotesquely excessive salaries while their workers scrape by an existence and then I'll answer your question.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Define both "grotesquely excessive" and "just scraping by". Specifically however I want to know what you mean by "just scraping by"; what counts as making too little for you?

Tell me why CEOs deserve such grotesquely excessive salaries while their workers scrape by an existence and then I'll answer your question.


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Tell me what is inherently wrong with a CEO making millions of dollars without using Reddit-tier soijack memes.
It's theft and exploitation of the product of my labor.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Define both "grotesquely excessive" and "just scraping by". Specifically however I want to know what you mean by "just scraping by"; what counts as making too little for you?

Tell me why CEOs deserve such grotesquely excessive salaries while their workers scrape by an existence and then I'll answer your question.
Is lil wagie still talking? Don't worry, I'm sure the mouse will allow you those extra dollars for overtime. Massa mouse treats us goods. Wese a good slave for massa.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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What the fuck is your problem dude? Jesus Christ you're unbelievable.

Is lil wagie still talking? Don't worry, I'm sure the mouse will allow you those extra dollars for overtime. Massa mouse treats us goods. Wese a good slave for massa.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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What the fuck is your problem dude? Jesus Christ you're unbelievable.

Is lil wagie still talking? Don't worry, I'm sure the mouse will allow you those extra dollars for overtime. Massa mouse treats us goods. Wese a good slave for massa.
OH MY LAWWWD LAWD LAWD

WESE SORRY MASSA. DON'T DEDUCT ARE WAGES MASSA WE NEEDS IT TO SURVIVE


CMD.exe | Ascended Posting Riot
 
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I agree with Mordo that CEOs don't deserve in any way to be bathing in cash while the people actually responsible for keeping companies afloat can barely survive off of their wages, but Jesus dude, you're not helping your point in the least bit. You sound like the degenerates in my ghetto middle and high schools who are all now in the ground or replicating SecondClass' existance.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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I agree with Mordo that CEOs don't deserve in any way to be bathing in cash while the people actually responsible for keeping companies afloat can barely survive off of their wages, but Jesus dude, you're not helping your point in the least bit. You sound like the degenerates in my ghetto middle and high schools who are all now in the ground or replicating SecondClass' existance.
I'd rather sound like second class than some  subservient bootlicker who thinks CEOS somehow deserve the palacial salary they get for scratching their arse.

Get some fucking perspective.
Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 08:51:33 PM by Mordo


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I haven't heard about any riots so onto other questions.

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When is it justifiable to riot?

It's not.

Quote
Further, is it justifiable for individuals of one community to participate in a riot whose genesis lies in injustice done to another community?

No, since rioting is a largely pointless act.

Quote
Is a riot less legitimate if it is comprised with a proportionally larger set of opportunistic looters and antisocial types?

It's always illegitimate. No amount of ratios justify a riot.


i am karjala takaisin | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Ember used to be cool and funny

Now he's just gay
the riots are good


 
ಠ_ಠ
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.
In the past I would've had mixed feelings, but I am in full support of the riots.


i am karjala takaisin | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Ember used to be cool and funny

Now he's just gay
really happy with the political development of most people here in the past 6 years


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Tell me what is inherently wrong with a CEO making millions of dollars without using Reddit-tier soijack memes. Bonus points if you're able to bring up other positions on the corporate ladder instead of just the basic entry-level ones and their salaries as well.

>as he defends a multi millionaire CEO's salary

Y-yes massa mouse, the big bad rioters are the real problem. Please let me go back to being a 12 dollar an hour wage slave massa. I'll be a good boi massa, I'll generate your profits for you. Massa treats me good mmhmm.

I'd say that there's nothing wrong with making x amount of money that the ceo's make. Where things go wrong however is that regular average joes aren't allowed to achieve this status due to the nature of the roadblocks placed in their way by institutions in the government and corporate behemoths. There's too many drainage points for an average joe to contend with on their income levels, whereas the board becomes stacked in the favor of upper end ceo's who can generate so much income that they can never lose. They get tax breaks, insurance, and legal loopholes that average normies don't get.

And then we run into the issue of what x amount of money accomplishes in our society. Buyouts. Having some potential  troubles come your way that might put a dent in your business or actually establish some form of moral obligation? Simply invest your unlimited income in the right direction and you can buy out government officials and organizations.

Once again, I say that it's not the level of income that matters, it's the disparity between top and bottom, and more importantly, how this money is invested. Most of the money generated is only going to be invested into what will generate more monetary gain for these corporations. Instead of actually using their wealth to accomplish anything of note in our world, perhaps helping to make it a better place and fix large issues that we're faced with, they squander it on generating a bigger fictitious number we all somehow apparently agreed to abide by and borderline worship as our mythological god. This becomes a massive problem when they own the board game that is the economy. It holds us back as a species and wastes everybody's precious time.


 
Verbatim
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Tell me what is inherently wrong with a CEO making millions of dollars
why does it need to be inherently wrong in order for it to be wrong in other contexts

what is inherently wrong
Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 01:10:12 AM by Verbatim


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How are they not allowed to achieve such status? Nepotism? Being born into a wealthy family and able to start up businesses easier? I wont deny that it's a significant bonus to have either of those things (or both), but at the end of the day, shareholders only want one thing out of their CEO and that's someone who can make growth and there's enough positions/ranks within the ladder for one to go through to learn the ins & outs of the company so that they can produce the same results. All of those positions offer higher pay and the ability to raise your standard of living.

And those positions and pay raises can give you more than just going from a mediocre apartment to a somewhat-nice house, and from going from a sandwich with a juice box for lunch to dine-in restaurant. You can go back to school and earn a degree, invest in stocks to produce some of your own wealth, maybe start a low-risk tiny business just to make a tiny bit more on the side. All of that largely depends on how you spend your money. I'm not blaming any outside factor because I chose to spend my discretionary income on entertainment I felt I deserved instead of going back to college or opening up an investment account, but I also have a savings account I would dump money into every week because I feel being fiscally responsible is a large part of getting ahead in life. I can proudly say I've never went negative in my main checking account and it hasn't been under $1k in over a year (and even with this pandemic crippling my income it still wont dip below $1.5k).

With that being said, if CEOs made shit for a living, what reason is there to even aim for that position? I don't resent my boss's boss's boss's boss because he makes six figures, especially considering he started out hourly like I did. People like to say the dream of working hard and succeeding in life because of it is just a meme and they'll drown out any evidence of someone doing so; Here's one of the people from my company doing it. Honestly, the pay is probably the only incentive to ever become a CEO anyways. Their daily grind isn't glamorous in the slightest. Who wants to work 60-70 hours a week (including weekends) on six hours of sleep with constant pressure from shareholders to make growth and all you get is mediocre pay? Nobody would volunteer for the job, let alone strive for it; and shareholders will have you removed if you just ride the wave and not produce higher results.

I'm not arguing that hourly entry-level workers shouldn't be paid a living wage, they most certainly should. But when you have a corporate business with thousands of people, slashing the millionaire's pay just to give more to all the entry-workers amounts to what? An extra $100 every year for each employee while they all see that their higher ups actually lose pay for doing a pain in the ass job? When that guy quits because the stress/workload amounts to less pay, who's going to want to replace him? No one thinks that the entry-level positions don't deserve to live comfortably, but the idea that a CEO just sits on their asses all day and makes crazy money for no reason is just objectively untrue.*

*Edit: The last sentence somehow got into the middle of your post, so I moved it to where it should have been.

I'd say that there's nothing wrong with making x amount of money that the ceo's make. Where things go wrong however is that regular average joes aren't allowed to achieve this status due to the nature of the roadblocks placed in their way by institutions in the government and corporate behemoths. There's too many drainage points for an average joe to contend with on their income levels, whereas the board becomes stacked in the favor of upper end ceo's who can generate so much income that they can never lose. They get tax breaks, insurance, and legal loopholes that average normies don't get.

And then we run into the issue of what x amount of money accomplishes in our society. Buyouts. Having some potential  troubles come your way that might put a dent in your business or actually establish some form of moral obligation? Simply invest your unlimited income in the right direction and you can buy out government officials and organizations.

Once again, I say that it's not the level of income that matters, it's the disparity between top and bottom, and more importantly, how this money is invested. Most of the money generated is only going to be invested into what will generate more monetary gain for these corporations. Instead of actually using their wealth to accomplish anything of note in our world, perhaps helping to make it a better place and fix large issues that we're faced with, they squander it on generating a bigger fictitious number we all somehow apparently agreed to abide by and borderline worship as our mythological god. This becomes a massive problem when they own the board game that is the economy. It holds us back as a species and wastes everybody's precious time.
Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 01:58:14 AM by Ian


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I do have an argument on this post but everything I write on it feels like it's just jargon. If I forget to come back to it, it's not because I refused to reply, it's because I don't know how to articulate it.

why does it need to be inherently wrong in order for it to be wrong in other contexts

what is inherently wrong


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How are they not allowed to achieve such status?
They technically aren't. But they are slowed almost to the point that it's not possible, as I explained, the barriers that exist for a poor person compared to an extravagently wealthy one are different and designed for to generate failure for one side of the coin.

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And those positions and pay raises can give you more than just going from a mediocre apartment to a somewhat-nice house
This examples is moot because housing should be considered an essential access point for all human beings. And if it's classified as essential, it shouldn't be bottom of the barrel shit. You shouldn't have to run hoops to land "average" housing at best.

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You can go back to school and earn a degree
Money should not be a relevant factor in what education you should be able to access. Your ability to access education should be based off your actual ability to learn in your field. This is a moot point for having wealth.

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what reason is there to even aim for that position?
Exactly. Do you see the point of failure in this scenario? If the only incentive for a CEO or for somebody, anybody, to do something because they acquire wealth of income is wealth of income alone, then it's an entirely pointless existence and exercise. Society as it exists today is not founded on what we as human beings desire or need to grow, but instead a lure that we hope grants us access to certain doorways to a better life, as well as a fundament to daily survival. This is an incorrect mode of operation.

The only actual reason to do anything, especially a job, should be for the sake of a job or task itself, and achieving the highest quality that you are able to. Requiring a crutch to bait you along into doing work you don't really want to do, for the sake of earning something that's made neccessary for survival is a morally shit move and it's totally redundant. Imagine for a second if I operated on your point of logic.

Why should I bother getting up in the morning and going to do my job if the pay's not good enough when my body is falling apart? Why should I bother having compassion for human beings around me if I'm not getting paid for it? Why should I do anything at all if I don't get paid for it? Much of existence can be a pain in the ass, so why am I not being paid for it?

Quote
working hard and succeeding in life because of it is just a meme
Nowhere did I say that working hard is a meme. Fucking believe me dude I know what working hard is. I spent five years on the streets and homeless and now I'm working double jobs and clocking in at 112 hour work weeks. My house is currently a truck with a truck camper. The amount of effort it's taken to pull myself back from what I came from is very real. I put the time in, and now I'm here. However, a person can work hard and still achieve nothing if they're working in a system that's designed to be counter-intuitive. Our system is designed to be counter intuitive.

These quoted success stories only exist because these people were willing to sacrifice tremendously to get to their level. And this ultimately is the problem. People shouldn't have to sacrifice their timespan, their lifespan, in a grind to achieve even moderate levels of comfort. As a human being, it should be one's responsibility to make the journey for all other lives around yours easier, not difficult. Society at large does not do this in spades.

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But when you have a corporate business with thousands of people, slashing the millionaire's pay
I never said slashing his pay was required. There are many other measures that can and should be taken other than slashing pay. The measures I'm talking about are a total restructuring of how our system operates. A total change in values, morals and what really counts in life.


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