has anyone on this site had problems with substance abuse?

Aether · January 22, 2015, 03:20:23 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:13:36 AM

Yeah, hi. I'm only talking about self diagnoses and failing to follow directions properly.
In those cases you're an idiot and you fucked up.

People on this forum are way to defensive for their stupid drugs.

I'm sorry, that isn't what you initially implied at all. Your first post in this thread only stated that those who abused a substance were morons.

If don't want people to take what you're saying the wrong way then you need to clarify better. Yes, you stated that you felt substance abuse was moronic in regards to self diagnosis or not following instructions, but that doesn't negate what you first implied. It was still entirely plausible that you felt substance abuse as a whole was moronic.

If you feel like you've been jumped on, I'm sorry. I'm not angry. Maybe others are. But that can be expected when you state something out of ignorance.

aREALgod · January 22, 2015, 03:21:17 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:16:21 AM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:14:30 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: / on January 22, 2015, 02:22:22 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:19:04 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on January 22, 2015, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:08:06 AM
There's a surprise.
Anyways, no. Like Verby says, I'm not a moron.
You don't have to be a moron to fall prey to addiction. Thinking that such is simply a matter of stupidity is naive.
It's called not doing drugs, m8.
Were it only that simple. It's not a black and white issue.
You're the one trying to ruin your brain man, not me.
Smoking some weed or tobacco or drinking a little alcohol does NOT ruin your brain
That's not what Slash has been fucking around with the past few days.

I don't know or care what he's been "fucking around with" for the past few days, I've done other drugs as well. It hasn't fucked me over. Example? I'm a certified goddamn EMT.

aREALgod · January 22, 2015, 03:24:02 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:21:53 AM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:21:17 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:16:21 AM
Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:14:30 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: / on January 22, 2015, 02:22:22 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:19:04 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on January 22, 2015, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:08:06 AM
There's a surprise.
Anyways, no. Like Verby says, I'm not a moron.
You don't have to be a moron to fall prey to addiction. Thinking that such is simply a matter of stupidity is naive.
It's called not doing drugs, m8.
Were it only that simple. It's not a black and white issue.
You're the one trying to ruin your brain man, not me.
Smoking some weed or tobacco or drinking a little alcohol does NOT ruin your brain
That's not what Slash has been fucking around with the past few days.
I don't know or care what he's been "fucking around with" for the past few days, I've done other drugs as well. It hasn't fucked me over. Example? I'm a certified goddamn EMT.
Okay well great, then you know what you're doing.

Yeah, it doesn't mean Slash doesn't know what he's doing, either. Hell, even if he doesn't know what he's doing, it's definitely a learning opportunity. Learning things the hard way is sometimes the best. But I don't know what he's involved in, so I can't give a proper opinion.

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:25:37 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:21:22 AM

If you've never done heroin then how do you know?

Because I understand, at least vaguely, how addiction works at the level of the brain. The reason it is an addiction is because it motivates people to behave in ways they wouldn't otherwise do while not ill in the fashion that they are.

I mean, y'know, why did Ted Bundy go out of his way to murder 20 or so women and then get fried in the electric chair. Because he was a psychopath. And, for that matter, addicted to certain behaviours and impulses.

Everything is reducible to the brain and how it operates.

Aether · January 22, 2015, 03:29:14 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:23:04 AM

I'm not fucking ignorant, I was just making a jab at Slash. Yeah, you guys jumped on me.
I didn't think I'd have to fucking debate my entire reasoning for things.

Everyone is ignorant, friend. And your initial statement was definitely ignorant. That's what these thugs who 'jumped' you have been trying to show you for the bulk of this thread.

Maybe you're just cursing because you want to, but you appear to be angry. You don't have to be.

aREALgod · January 22, 2015, 03:29:48 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:25:13 AM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:24:02 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:21:53 AM
Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:21:17 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:16:21 AM
Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 22, 2015, 03:14:30 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: / on January 22, 2015, 02:22:22 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:19:04 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on January 22, 2015, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 02:08:06 AM
There's a surprise.
Anyways, no. Like Verby says, I'm not a moron.
You don't have to be a moron to fall prey to addiction. Thinking that such is simply a matter of stupidity is naive.
It's called not doing drugs, m8.
Were it only that simple. It's not a black and white issue.
You're the one trying to ruin your brain man, not me.
Smoking some weed or tobacco or drinking a little alcohol does NOT ruin your brain
That's not what Slash has been fucking around with the past few days.
I don't know or care what he's been "fucking around with" for the past few days, I've done other drugs as well. It hasn't fucked me over. Example? I'm a certified goddamn EMT.
Okay well great, then you know what you're doing.

Yeah, it doesn't mean Slash doesn't know what he's doing, either. Hell, even if he doesn't know what he's doing, it's definitely a learning opportunity. Learning things the hard way is sometimes the best. But I don't know what he's involved in, so I can't give a proper opinion.
I have zero tolerance for non medical drugs that aren't legal outside of weed. It doesn't matter if you think you know what you're doing or not, if you get fucked up then it's your fault.

For one, there ARE drugs outside of weed that aren't necessarily dangerous, at all. Two, it is not completely the user's fault. I don't know where you get this idea, just about everyone is susceptible to addiction of any sorts against their will.

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:29:53 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:26:18 AM

How the fuck are they addicted if they've never had it before?

They could be addicted to another drug and find themselves in a situation where heroin is involved.

But, let's take the perfect counter-factual. Somebody who's never touched a drug, and not addicted to any other substance. If you accept that the behaviour behind addiction is in some way determined by genetics and neurology, I see no reason why that shouldn't hold for the 'first move' of taking any drug in the first place.

As with the previous example, why did Ted Bundy kill his first victim instead of just not doing that? He was essentially predisposed to act in that manner, as people with 'addiction complexes' are predisposed to behaviours which would make the initial move into a state of addiction.

Aether · January 22, 2015, 03:36:35 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:31:56 AM

Sure, I'm steamed. I'm not afraid to admit that. You can throw around your mumbo jump philosophy all you want but it doesn't change the fact that I was just making a jab and wasn't expecting this to blow up the way it did,

I mean it was a pretty ignorant statement. People are passionate about this stuff. I can see that Meta is particularly passionate.

If you weren't serious when you said it you should have just been like idgaf and went about your business. It's a simple tactic and very effective.

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:38:22 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:34:39 AM

Explain to me how someone who had never taken something before could possibly be addicted to it already.

Not quite.

The point is that people predisposed to addiction are also predisposed to make choices which would lead to that state of addiction. There are a whole host of behavioural 'variables' involved in addiction--impulse control, for one--which come together to increase the probability of a person taking an addictive drug in the first place.

It's just a necessary regression--people predisposed to addiction are also predisposed to doing things which would lead to that state of addiction.

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:39:06 AM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on January 22, 2015, 03:36:35 AM

I can see that Meta is particularly passionate.

Not drugs as a topic, per se, but it feeds into wider moral concerns about responsibility and free will.

SecondClass · January 22, 2015, 03:40:47 AM

Gotta love people freaking out for what others do in their own personal lives. You have no grounds to judge another man for the way he chooses to live.

Aether · January 22, 2015, 03:42:21 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:37:49 AM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on January 22, 2015, 03:36:35 AM
Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:31:56 AM
Sure, I'm steamed. I'm not afraid to admit that. You can throw around your mumbo jump philosophy all you want but it doesn't change the fact that I was just making a jab and wasn't expecting this to blow up the way it did,
I mean it was a pretty ignorant statement. People are passionate about this stuff. I can see that Meta is particularly passionate.

If you weren't serious when you said it you should have just been like idgaf and went about your business. It's a simple tactic and very effective.
Okay, well I don't care about you you have to say past this point then.
What's in the past is done and I can't change that.

Whether or not you care, just try not to get so angry next time. Things are much clearer without all that distracting negative emotion. =]

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:44:30 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:39:56 AM

So you're saying I should have sympathy for a feeble minded psychopath who needs to go out and buy heroin, and not because he's making a stupid choice

I'm saying you should have an understanding that people who act in certain ways are predisposed (I'm purposely ignoring the word 'pre-determined') to act in that manner. You don't need to care or turn into a bleeding-heart for people who get addicted to drugs, and you don't need to feel sorry for the psychopath who murders 20 people, but holding the fact in your mind that they--essentially--can't help themselves is not only a, I think, healthier way of looking at humanity, but incredibly liberating for yourself as well.

If you agree that what people do in the grip of addiction is a medical condition, irrational and not subject to the normal conventions of personal autonomy and its consequences then you must necessarily agree the same is true for the behaviour leading up to the addiction.

SecondClass · January 22, 2015, 03:45:18 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:43:00 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on January 22, 2015, 03:40:47 AM
Gotta love people freaking out for what others do in their own personal lives. You have no grounds to judge another man for the way he chooses to live.
If you want to abuse drugs then that's fine, it's your deal. I'm just going to think it's kind of dumb of you.
I'm not here to stop anyone.

Life is about the amount of happiness you experience on a gross scale, and while I'm not advocating the use of hard drugs, drug users tend to have more memorable times than straight edges. But I can see why you'd call it dumb, as well.

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:51:18 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:47:48 AM

If they're really that uncontrollable then they're probably not very intelligent or fit for society in the first place anyway, honestly.

I'd agree that murderous psychopaths aren't fit for society, of course, but predisposition is not a life sentence. You can 'educate' people out of addiction and help them to become more productive--of course, it won't work for some--but the key is not to condemn them as stupid in the first instance. I agree with you that drug users probably tend not to be very intelligent, but their actions aren't totally a result of how knowledgeable or learned they are.

Comet · January 22, 2015, 03:54:22 AM

Dont want to get pregnant?
Dont have sex!

-Nuka

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 03:55:40 AM

Quote from: Comet on January 22, 2015, 03:54:22 AM

Dont want to get pregnant?
Dont have sex!

-Nuka

This is Serious.

BaconShelf · January 22, 2015, 03:58:37 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 22, 2015, 02:06:26 AM

I'm not a moron.

^^^

BaconShelf · January 22, 2015, 04:01:39 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 03:59:43 AM

Quote from: Bacon's Shelf on January 22, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on January 22, 2015, 02:06:26 AM
I'm not a moron.

^^^
Yeah, apparently you're not allowed to say that here.

Well I just did. By I, I mean using verb's post to explain my attitude towards the matter.

Aether · January 22, 2015, 04:07:26 AM

You can say it's moronic all you like.

And anyone can dispute you all they like.

ffs why am I getting notifications for edits.

Also, I'm sorry if disputing you makes me a prick, Nuka. I don't make it a priority of mine to piss you off.

Aether · January 22, 2015, 04:26:24 AM

Quote from: XxNuKeZxX on January 22, 2015, 04:21:18 AM

It was the passive aggressive smiley face.
I'm not saying anything else on the matter.

That's just a trademark of mine. If you get to know me more, then you'll find that I post it rather often.

gats · January 22, 2015, 05:42:31 AM

Cigarettes, if that counts.

clum clum · January 22, 2015, 06:42:48 AM

No, not really. I have tried weed before, didn't like it.

I guess alcohol? I drink pretty heavily when I drink.

Mordo · January 22, 2015, 06:46:54 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 22, 2015, 02:16:18 AM

No because I'm not a pussy.

You forgot to log in to your PSU account Max.

Dustin · January 22, 2015, 07:09:22 AM

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Mad Max · January 22, 2015, 09:58:33 AM

Quote from: Nexus on January 22, 2015, 02:18:27 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 22, 2015, 02:16:18 AM
No because I'm not a pussy.
This is such an asshole post.

Quote from: / on January 22, 2015, 02:19:44 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 22, 2015, 02:16:18 AM
No because I'm not a pussy.
Wow that's a fucking idiotic thing to say.

GUISE THIS IS THE FLOOD NOT SRS BIZNES LOLOL

Spoiler

I could have sworn this was originally in the flood

More Than Mortal · January 22, 2015, 10:00:51 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 22, 2015, 09:58:33 AM

Spoiler
I could have sworn this was originally in the flood

Don't worry, it was.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · January 22, 2015, 10:25:48 AM

I've never really had an addiction in the sense that I just had to have it, but then again I've never done anything outside occasional alcohol, pot, or cough syrup. The last one was probably the stupidest thing out of them, not because of some negative reaction to it, but because it was abusing a pharmaceutical.

Mr. Psychologist · January 22, 2015, 10:32:43 AM

Some of you may already know my general opinion/stance on recreational drugs, it can be summed up in two words. Absolutely Haram.

The closest I've ever come to an issue would perhaps be painkillers, just OTC ones which I had to have for several months. All the while wondering about if I was going to end up addicted to the bloody things. Turns out I wasn't, I came off them after about 6-7 months of prolonged usage without a single hitch. It caught me by surprise though, because I'd have thought that considering my mother's propensity for addiction (Alcoholism/Chain Smoking) and how I can see it manifesting in my brother (Online games, facebook shit) I'd have been in the at risk category. But it looks like I was dealt a decent hand of cards for my genetics <.<
So I was able to drop them cold turkey overnight and I didn't have a single physical or mental symptom of withdrawal.

That all being said, not everyone is that lucky. Some people are born with a predisposition to addiction, it's not a matter of being weakwilled anymore than being born without legs makes you lazy. You get dealt a hand of genes and you get some good ones and some bad ones, some people are born with that predisposition and if they are then born into an environment conducive to addiction it's basically an uphill battle from the get-go.

People who are addicted have a medical problem, not a lack of morals or willpower. Yes, willpower does factor into it but at the same time it is not the be all and end all of addiction matters. And that willpower itself is likely determined by your upbringing/genetics too.

So if someone is addicted to anything judging them for it is as flat out retarded as blaming someone for getting cancer.

Now if I get some more time later, I can go and drag up the sciencey shit for all this^

Mad Max · January 22, 2015, 10:34:51 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 22, 2015, 10:00:51 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 22, 2015, 09:58:33 AM
Spoiler
I could have sworn this was originally in the flood
Don't worry, it was.

Ah ok. I didn't think I would be such a blatant asshole in Serious.