Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 12:44:40 PM

This is from huffpost,

DROPPED

Their sources are legit. Look up the article. It's not what they're writing, it's the fact that gang related homicides with guns makes up a tiny fraction of deaths caused by guns.

There's nothing to debate. It's pure fact. Look up the statistics on Google.

Quote from: Flee on October 06, 2014, 10:52:20 AM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on October 06, 2014, 10:16:35 AM

The average gun owner isn't commiting mass shootings though, so I don't see the need for mistrust.

The fact that every single year thousands of your otherwise typical and average gun owner end up shooting and killing someone else seems like a sufficient reason to me.

Most gun crime is from gangs.  Again thousands compared to 60 million is pretty small in comparison.

In a scathing critique of ABC's recent report "Young Guns," Dana Loesch stated that most gun deaths were the result of gang violence; therefore, America has a gang problem, not a gun problem. Her claim appears to be supported by sites positing that "a staggering 80 percent of gun homicides are gang-related." As it turns out though, not only is her statement factually incorrect, as the majority of gun deaths are suicides, but there is not a shred of evidence to support her characterization that gangs are the driving force behind firearm violence.

Unfortunately, Dana Loesch's sentiment is shared by many gun advocates, including the Executive Vice President of the National Rifle Association, Wayne LaPierre, who, when opposing firearm background checks said, "President Obama should be as committed to dealing with the gang problem that is tormenting honest people in his hometown as he is to blaming law-abiding gun owners for the acts of psychopathic murderers."

So, do we have a gang problem or a gun problem? Data collected by the National Gang Center, the government agency responsible for cataloging gang violence, makes clear that it's the latter. There were 1,824 gang-related killings in 2011. This total includes deaths by means other than a gun. The Bureau of Justice Statistics finds this number to be even lower, identifying a little more than 1,000 gang-related homicides in 2008. In comparison, there were 11,101 homicides and 19,766 suicides committed with firearms in 2011.

According to the Federal Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP), the number of gangs and gang members has been on the rise for some time now, increasing by more than one-third in the past decade. Between 2010 and 2011, for example, there was a 3 percent increase in the number of gangs, but an 8 percent decrease in gang-related homicides. If gang violence was truly driving the gun homicide rate, we should not see gang membership and gun homicide rates moving in opposite directions.

The most recent Centers for Disease Control study on this subject lends further credence to our claim. It examined five cities that met the criterion for having a high prevalence of gang homicides: Los Angeles, California; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; Long Beach, California; Oakland, California; and Newark, New Jersey. In these cities, a total of 856 gang and 2,077 non-gang homicides were identified and included in the analyses. So, even when examining cities with the largest gang problems, gang homicides only accounted for 29 percent of the total for the period under consideration (2003-2008). For the nation as a whole it would be much smaller.

The 80 percent of gang-related gun homicides figure purporting to support Loesch's claim, then, is not only false, but off by nearly a factor of five. The direct opposite is necessarily true: more than 80 percent of gun homicides are non-gang related. While gang violence is still a serious problem that needs to be addressed, it is disingenuous to assert that the vast majority of our gun problem (even excluding suicides) is caused by gangs.

In spite of this, LaPierre's proposed solution to gun violence is to "contact every U.S. Attorney and ask them to bring at least 10 cases per month against drug dealers, gang members and other violent felons caught illegally possessing firearms." That same CDC study, however, also refutes LaPierre's claim that the drug trade is fueling gun-violence, saying, "the proportion of gang homicides resulting from drug trade/use or with other crimes in progress was consistently low in the five cities, ranging from zero to 25 percent." Furthermore, a 2005 study done by Cook, Ludwig and Braga found that nearly three in five homicide offenders in Illinois in 2001 did not have a felony conviction within the 10 years prior to the homicide. Looking at just violent felons excludes a huge subset of potential criminals that become violent in the presence of a firearm.

Gun advocates' blind focus on gangs, drugs and violent felons overlooks the larger gun problem facing America. It is irresponsible and disingenuous for some of us to brush off our staggering death toll from firearms merely as the product of gangs or even violent criminals. Recognizing America's high homicide rate for what it is -- a gun problem -- is the first step in solving it.

This is from huffpost, I tried linking it but when I clicked the link in the preview it takes me to a 404. I'm on mobile and for some reason I just can't link. You can find it in google search though, it's called "Do we have a gang problem or gun problem?".

There wasn't much to topple, Kim just inherited his fathers position, he really wasn't raised to be a leader. Toppling Kim was quite literally taking candy from a rather chubby baby.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 09:45:39 AM

Quote from: Flee on October 06, 2014, 09:44:50 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 06, 2014, 09:43:22 AM

Cool it people <.<

Kinder getting down and dirty with someone other than ChallengerX? I feel like the fine familiarities and intrigue of the Flood Soap Opera are taking a turn for the interesting.

:^)

Shall I make a guest appearance?

Spoiler

No.

>mfw people hate on my swag

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 07:32:03 AM

Because people are irresponsible. They have kids at 14, do drugs, skip school, skip work.

The average human being is not responsible or cautious enough to have a gun. That's just fact. Look at our society and our species itself.

Dangerous people are EXTRA dangerous with a gun. It is extremely easy to get a gun in America. It shouldn't be.

But the overwhelming majority of firearm owners have never harmed anyone here. And just as firearms can be dangerous, they can be valuable tools to protect and save lives.  Dangerous people are extra dangerous with vehicles, that doesn't mean you stop everyone from driving.

Again, a car is a mode of transport, a gun is a weapon. Let's not be childish here.

The majority of school shootings and such have been committed with firearms that are legally owned. I don't trust the average person to carry a gun.

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 04:05:30 AM

And an armed person could stop you before you caused ANY injuries. If you anted to you could make a bomb and kill everyone without them having any way to stop you. As I said, people that want to kill are going to find ways to do it. Limiting responsible citizens isn't the appropriate response. A firearm can be used to protect and save lives as well as end them. Not to mention a criminal has greater confidence to injure in the first place when they know their victims are less likely to be able to defend themselves. You're focusing on the means people use to commit atrocities rather than on the people committing them. The key is knowing the difference between responsible and irresponsible people.

Yes, but you're missing the point of my post. That guns are way more effective than fists. That's what I was talking about. A bomb is irrelevant, we're talking about guns and how the majority of people shouldn't have them. They can't handle the responsibility.

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 03:39:36 AM

Quote from: Fat Cat on October 06, 2014, 01:44:53 AM

yeah, cheat's pretty much a coding wizard. his gandalf avatar is very fitting. :')

That isn't Gandalf.

Spoiler

:')

ebin :^)

Yes. Teach your kid why what they're doing is wrong, and how they should act instead and how acting the right way is more beneficial. Kids are intelligent. Treat them with respect and you'll get it back.

How many of those jobs are full-time, is what I'm wondering.  I mean, it's good that people are finding work, but 2-5 hours every other day isn't going to do much good for someone paying rent/car/etc.  And don't get me started on the lack of employer insurance that comes with working part-time.

I'm still looking for a job.  Every place that I've applied wants "prior retail experience".  Um, I'm submitting my resume to you so that I may obtain some of that experience.

That's the problem, you can't seem to find that information. At least, not easily.

Yeah I hear you on that. That is bullshit and a half.

Doesn't matter how many jobs are created, the labor force participation rate is still at 63%. This is mostly due to people not bothering to get a job because of free welfare checks from Obama.

You realize welfare checks were given out a shit ton under the Bush administration, right? Poverty is a huge problem in America, and neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give a shit. Nobody does. And it's not because people don't want to have money, like you imply. People want to get ahead, but they can't.

Quote from: challengerX on October 05, 2014, 11:59:55 AM

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 05, 2014, 10:10:32 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 05, 2014, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 05, 2014, 08:41:48 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 05, 2014, 05:18:42 AM

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 04, 2014, 06:30:14 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 04, 2014, 05:46:53 PM

First of all, your link says nothing about 7,100,000. You need to provide a source to back up that claim.

U3 is used officially for a lot of reasons. Stock market stability, peace of mind for the consumer, investor. Showing a lower number helps improve th economy, because people get their financial confidence back. They don't call them economic depressions for nothing. They aren't trying to hide anything. It's all there for everybody to see, it took the both of us like 3 seconds to Google U6. Nothing is hidden. The world economy has more to gain by having a more relaxed population. It increases spending, buying, selling. It stimulates the economy when people see 5.9% instead of 11%.

Obama has kept promises. He would've kept a lot more if he wasn't getting blocked by Republicans every time he tries to do something. They refuse to pass bills written by fellow Republicans trying to be passed by Obama and Democrats. Had the Tea Party not taken the Republicans over, the country would be a lot better. Obama is a way better president than Bush.

It actually does. Look at the table and under Sept. 2014 look at the number of 7,100. That's in thousands and shows exactly the amount of people with more than one job

And that's my point why U3 is bad: Because it's a number that doesn't actually represent the number of unemployed people. They are hiding it by stating the lower percentage than the higher. Ask anybody what the unemployment number is and they'll say in the ball park of 5% because that's the number being used

Obama has actually lied about a few things, notably saying he would close Guantanamo, allow people to keep their plans and doctors, reduce Veterans Benefits Administration claims backlog, won't sign statements to nullify instructions from Congress, made promises to not push for gun control, and other things. And why are you blaming just the Republicans? Because the Democrats have blocked bills introduced by Republicans plenty of times. It's childish behavior on BOTH sides and BOTH sides are at fault. There actually used to be a time where both parties worked together and despite how much they argued during a session, that didn't stop them form meeting up and having a few beers. That's when American politics were not the joke like it is today

I already told you why U3 is used. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

And like I said, you haven't provided a source detailing how the majority of these new jobs are all taken by people as second and third jobs.

He tried to close down Guantanamo, republicans blocked that. In fact, most right wing people were fear mongering acting like he was going to set the terrorists free and not relocate them to other prisons.

I don't remember him saying he wasn't going to ouch for gun control. Also, people have been able to keep their doctors. Again, these are things blown out of proportion by the republicans, and they outright fabricating stories when it came to Obama Care.

The republicans are way more at fault, and are at a point where they're blocking almost everything and threw a tantrum and got the government shut down because Obama Care was approved. And don't say democrats didn't want to negotiate, because the negotiations the republicans wanted was either everything in their favor of no discussion at all.

I already told you why U3 is bad

Exactly when did I say majority? I asked how many of those jobs are those with multiple jobs. Continue to twist what I say to make yourself look smart

Oh, you mean the time where Obama threatened to veto the House version of the Bill before it went to the Senate? Yeah, such maturity on Obama's part by not listening to the other side

Oh, he did

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/14/obama-many-folks-will-lose-their-doctors-under-obamacare/
Remember when Obama was going on about who we can keep our doctors and insurance plans? Now he's taken a 180 now and said people will have to loose their doctors. It's not fabricating stories when the stories are real

Both sides are at fault. Democrats and Obama threaten to block/veto any House bill with Obama using executive orders to get what he wants. Democrats and Obama also failed to work with Republicans to form an effective health care plan that would be in the interest of all Americans. But now with it passed, many Democrats who opposed Republican measures are now basically saying the Republicans were right and have no distance themselves from the tax in order to get reelected

No you didn't. There's nothing wrong with U3. All you said is that the government is lying. It isn't. Anybody can look up U6. Every country states their unemployment like this.

Obama has always listened to the other side. He hasn't taken anybody's guns. People were going to keep their doctors until it got mangled by the republicans. Even then, Obama Care is still great and cheap.

And by fabrication I mean those stories released by Fox News and republican politicians where people said they had no insurance coverage anymore. Journalists tracked these people down, and it turned out they hadn't even gone to the page to sign up.

The sissy democrats who have turned their back on Obama are just as bad as the republicans. It's funny how you always both sides are equally at fault when it isn't true at all and republicans are mostly to blame, and you always focus on the things some democrats have done. Of course Obama is going to use executive orders, the republicans do not want to work with him and stop everything he tries to do. Everything. They're worse than do nothing congress of the last century. I wonder why that is?

You don't have a leg to stand on. Your arguments are childish, uninformed, and downright ridiculous. You're wasting your time arguing about something, when we can all go see U6 on the Internet. Nothing is hidden. If you can't understand why this U3 is used officially after I've explained it to you time and time again, you're arguing for arguments sake. You don't have anything to say really, you just keep rehashing the tired old conservative "HES TAKIN OUR FREEDOMS" while claiming to be a libertarian. There is no right and wrong unemployment rate or conspiracy to make people think everything is ok. Both rates are useful.

http://nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2013/07/14/there-is-no-true-unemployment-rate/

Maybe if you read what I posted, then you would see it. U3 gives a false impression on the economy. It's a  mask and the government and media relying on it 24/7 makes people falsely assume the economy is improving when it's not

Lol, he doesn't listen to the other side because he threatened to veto the House bill and continues to do that. Actually he has; he signed an executive order banning imports from Kalashnikov Concern which prevents any more Saiga shotguns and rifles. On top of that, he hasn't prevented the likes on Connecticut from telling it's citizens to either hand over their AR-15 sporting rifles or be branded as a criminal thus neglecting his abilities to uphold the 2nd Amendment (I'm the last person you want to debate guns with)

Except those stories are not fabricated. People lost their insurance plans when Obama explicitly said that people would keep them. Stop trying to sugar coat the whole ordeal

Those "sissy" Democrats are not terrible. Those are the sane members of the Democrat party and as long as they support the right to bear arms and won't try to pull another Assault Weapons Ban then I will support them

It's funny how you're not Democrat yet you suck their dicks and will defend them no matter what. If you're so hell bent on defending them then don't criticize somebody from defending the opposite. Hypocrisy much?

Republicans actually want to work with Obama but him using executive orders makes no difference to Republicans because they know in whatever situation, Obama will throw a hissy fit and use his "power" to get what he wants.

How can something be childish, uniformed, and ridiculous when it's all fact? You seriously have an issue when somebody proves you wrong. Here's a wild fact: Libertarians are for freedom and know exactly that Obama is trying to take them away

U6 is being hidden because the media and government only focuses on U3. As I said, ask somebody the unemployment percentage and they will guess around 5%

It doesn't give a false impression. It's a different report. I told you why it's used. That is all this thread is about, unemployment. U6 isn't hidden, as it takes 20 seconds to look it up on Google, where the government itself provides the information. There's no secrecy.

But seeing how you want to go completely off topic in my thread, I guess we're talking about something else now aren't we?

They lost insurance, but they never applied for Obama Care, they never even visited the page.

Banning imports does not mean he is ordering the police to forcefully take away guns. Not interfering with a local government imposing a law which bans something with guns, does not mean he is taking guns. You're wrong there. Again, you're twisting things.

Nope, the democrats who do not support Obama are slaves to big corporations and are as bad as the majority of republicans. Fact is, I don't like the democrats. I like Obama. I say to vote democrat because they're the lesser of two evils. I criticize when you say democrats are as bad as reublicans, because they're not.

Republicans don't want to work with Obama, they block everything he tries to do. I remember a bill written by a Republican was blocked by republicans because it was later proposed by democrats and endorsed by Obama. Remember the shut down? A republican said (this is a direct quote) "We will not be disrespected like this. We need to get something from this. I don't know what, but we need to get something."

Your arguments are childish, uninformed, and ridiculous because you take things and twist them to try and prove your point.

Again, U6 isn't hidden. It's provided by the government. There's nothing "hidden" about it, seeing how we both found it.

I does give a false impression. It's a false impression because the government is throwing around a number much smaller than the actual unemployment rate

Funny, because you said I hate Obama and just gave a few simple reasons why. Then you went on about them. The only derailment here is yourself

It's quite evident that no matter how many times I state something factually, you try to disregard it and twist it around into your favor. If you can't debate properly then don't use this forum

Again, I told you all the reasons why the government uses it, and how almost every government does this. The government also provides us with U6, so they're not hiding anything.

You weren't asked to provide reasons. You sure Obama, bit you and I know you do. I don't need you to list why you hate him, it's off topic. I discussed it anyway because whatever.

You don't debate properly. You get personal, and you twist things to try and prove your point. End of story.

Quote from: challengerX on October 05, 2014, 05:18:42 AM

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 04, 2014, 06:30:14 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 04, 2014, 05:46:53 PM

First of all, your link says nothing about 7,100,000. You need to provide a source to back up that claim.

U3 is used officially for a lot of reasons. Stock market stability, peace of mind for the consumer, investor. Showing a lower number helps improve th economy, because people get their financial confidence back. They don't call them economic depressions for nothing. They aren't trying to hide anything. It's all there for everybody to see, it took the both of us like 3 seconds to Google U6. Nothing is hidden. The world economy has more to gain by having a more relaxed population. It increases spending, buying, selling. It stimulates the economy when people see 5.9% instead of 11%.

Obama has kept promises. He would've kept a lot more if he wasn't getting blocked by Republicans every time he tries to do something. They refuse to pass bills written by fellow Republicans trying to be passed by Obama and Democrats. Had the Tea Party not taken the Republicans over, the country would be a lot better. Obama is a way better president than Bush.

It actually does. Look at the table and under Sept. 2014 look at the number of 7,100. That's in thousands and shows exactly the amount of people with more than one job

And that's my point why U3 is bad: Because it's a number that doesn't actually represent the number of unemployed people. They are hiding it by stating the lower percentage than the higher. Ask anybody what the unemployment number is and they'll say in the ball park of 5% because that's the number being used

Obama has actually lied about a few things, notably saying he would close Guantanamo, allow people to keep their plans and doctors, reduce Veterans Benefits Administration claims backlog, won't sign statements to nullify instructions from Congress, made promises to not push for gun control, and other things. And why are you blaming just the Republicans? Because the Democrats have blocked bills introduced by Republicans plenty of times. It's childish behavior on BOTH sides and BOTH sides are at fault. There actually used to be a time where both parties worked together and despite how much they argued during a session, that didn't stop them form meeting up and having a few beers. That's when American politics were not the joke like it is today

I already told you why U3 is used. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

And like I said, you haven't provided a source detailing how the majority of these new jobs are all taken by people as second and third jobs.

He tried to close down Guantanamo, republicans blocked that. In fact, most right wing people were fear mongering acting like he was going to set the terrorists free and not relocate them to other prisons.

I don't remember him saying he wasn't going to ouch for gun control. Also, people have been able to keep their doctors. Again, these are things blown out of proportion by the republicans, and they outright fabricating stories when it came to Obama Care.

The republicans are way more at fault, and are at a point where they're blocking almost everything and threw a tantrum and got the government shut down because Obama Care was approved. And don't say democrats didn't want to negotiate, because the negotiations the republicans wanted was either everything in their favor of no discussion at all.

I already told you why U3 is bad

Exactly when did I say majority? I asked how many of those jobs are those with multiple jobs. Continue to twist what I say to make yourself look smart

Oh, you mean the time where Obama threatened to veto the House version of the Bill before it went to the Senate? Yeah, such maturity on Obama's part by not listening to the other side

Oh, he did

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/14/obama-many-folks-will-lose-their-doctors-under-obamacare/
Remember when Obama was going on about who we can keep our doctors and insurance plans? Now he's taken a 180 now and said people will have to loose their doctors. It's not fabricating stories when the stories are real

Both sides are at fault. Democrats and Obama threaten to block/veto any House bill with Obama using executive orders to get what he wants. Democrats and Obama also failed to work with Republicans to form an effective health care plan that would be in the interest of all Americans. But now with it passed, many Democrats who opposed Republican measures are now basically saying the Republicans were right and have no distance themselves from the tax in order to get reelected

No you didn't. There's nothing wrong with U3. All you said is that the government is lying. It isn't. Anybody can look up U6. Every country states their unemployment like this.

Obama has always listened to the other side. He hasn't taken anybody's guns. People were going to keep their doctors until it got mangled by the republicans. Even then, Obama Care is still great and cheap.

And by fabrication I mean those stories released by Fox News and republican politicians where people said they had no insurance coverage anymore. Journalists tracked these people down, and it turned out they hadn't even gone to the page to sign up.

The sissy democrats who have turned their back on Obama are just as bad as the republicans. It's funny how you always both sides are equally at fault when it isn't true at all and republicans are mostly to blame, and you always focus on the things some democrats have done. Of course Obama is going to use executive orders, the republicans do not want to work with him and stop everything he tries to do. Everything. They're worse than do nothing congress of the last century. I wonder why that is?

You don't have a leg to stand on. Your arguments are childish, uninformed, and downright ridiculous. You're wasting your time arguing about something, when we can all go see U6 on the Internet. Nothing is hidden. If you can't understand why this U3 is used officially after I've explained it to you time and time again, you're arguing for arguments sake. You don't have anything to say really, you just keep rehashing the tired old conservative "HES TAKIN OUR FREEDOMS" while claiming to be a libertarian. There is no right and wrong unemployment rate or conspiracy to make people think everything is ok. Both rates are useful.

http://nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2013/07/14/there-is-no-true-unemployment-rate/

Quote from: Decimator Omega on October 04, 2014, 10:01:39 PM

Quote from: Yutaka on October 04, 2014, 09:56:29 PM

That will only make people hate us more.

Who cares what that sorry excuse of a community thinks? We're all that matter.

Stop it, there are people here who still post there, it's not just "one or the other" for everyone. We're not automatically better because we post here. Hell, BE isn't even that elitist and it's in the name.

If it wasn't for Bungie none of us would even be here. That's why I can't hate Bungie. No matter how many mistakes they're making now, they've really impacted my life. They were so much more than just game developers, Halo was and is so much more than just a game.

Well, you know my views on transgenderism and all that. Point is, I'm just being scientific about it. I've never misgendered you or treated you wrongly because of how you are.

Uh, I don't know. I'm guessing you're not really apologizing to me, but I just wanted to clear that up. I keep my views separate from how I treat others. Unless you're a nazi or something.