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Messages - More Than Mortal

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4531
Serious / Re: Walmart refuses to make a Confederate flag cake. . .
« on: June 29, 2015, 02:03:00 AM »
LOL every southern fucktard sympathizer liked this.
sick rebuttal bro

4532
Serious / Re: Walmart refuses to make a Confederate flag cake. . .
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:51:19 PM »
If you think the Dixie flag is too evil, you should write off American flags too, because trust me, that flag represents some pretty FUCKED UP shit to Native Americans. But I guess it's okay to salute that flag because at least it won.
If you look closely, you can see the precise moment his career ended.

4533
Serious / Re: Walmart refuses to make a Confederate flag cake. . .
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:48:37 PM »
The Confederate flag nonsense has been an issue since the Civil War.
That's even worse than just getting upset now.

It's a fucking flag, and it doesn't even represent the racism/slavery/bigotry any more that you're correct to oppose. Removing it from kids toys and shit like that because some Southern neo-Nazi shot up a church is dumb.

That's how they win, when we capitulate.

4534
Serious / Re: Proof that Keynesianism is wrong
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:41:20 PM »
TIL that conservatives, socialists and libertarians have senses of humour, whereas liberals do not.

4535
Serious / Re: Stimulus vs. Austerity
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:40:46 PM »

4536
Serious / Re: Stimulus vs. Austerity
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:32:28 PM »
Who's the fucking idiot who voted for just fiscal stimulus?

4537
The Flood / Re: I'm going camping with four mates tomorrow morning
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:06:16 PM »
Are you going to Dick Cheney one of your mates out there?
no

I'm going to Dick Armey them

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

4538
The Flood / Re: I'm going camping with four mates tomorrow morning
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:05:28 PM »
camping camping or vacation camping
vacation camping

there's a bar there

4539
The Flood / I'm going camping with four mates tomorrow morning
« on: June 28, 2015, 06:00:58 PM »
And I won't return till Thursday.

It's okay, you can cry. Daddy still loves you, he just has to go away for a while.

4540
The Flood / Re: Hey Class
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:55:13 PM »
Reported.

You fucking BELGIAN MAYONNAISE LOVING ECTHR SHILL

4541
The Flood / Re: The little things in life that you appreciate
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:04:28 PM »
The first sip on a fresh can of Coca-Cola is pretty delightful.

Finding a porn video that you saw a long time ago but could never find again until now.
These, without a doubt.

4542
Serious / Re: The ECB is going to end Greece's bailout
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:01:13 PM »
Does this mean yurop will get it's denbts?
No. It means Greece will likely default and leave the Euro.
But then who will pay denbts
Nobody. Most of the debt will probably have to be forgiven, and interest rates will skyrocket for Greece.

4543
Serious / Re: Stimulus vs. Austerity
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:00:43 PM »

4544
Serious / Stimulus vs. Austerity
« on: June 28, 2015, 04:31:29 PM »
TL;DR at bottom

Figured I'd make one final post--more of a compendium, really--on the issue of monetary policy, and fiscal stimulus vs. austerity. The poll is just to see where most people on the forum lie (note: if you choose the last one, you're bad and you should feel bad).

Full disclosure: I don't really "identify" with any school of thought to a substantial degree. I'm part New Keynesian, part monetarist, part neoclassical.

Deficit Spending and Keynesianism:

It's important to note that I'm talking specifically when we're going through the pains of the business cycle, and in a recession. It isn't good policy to run a deficit during times of prosperity; a 2004 study by Orszag and Gale found that a deficit of 3.5pc leads to rising interest rates and a shrinkage in the economy by 1 or 2pc. The reason for this is that it crowds out private investment by competing in the pool of available savings (speaking strictly domestically) and driving up interest rates.

An earlier study in 1999 by Blanchard and Perotti supports this; they demonstrate a very small long-run multiplier for increased government expenditure, as well as a similar crowding out effect. It's important to note that, at least in terms of the business cycle, Keynesian economics has been thoroughly discredited. Keynes was simply mostly wrong; investment isn't driven by animal spirits, and a combination of fiscal policy + regulation probably isn't the best way to deal with the business cycle (there are other errors, but they're somewhat more technical and not really worth mentioning, although I will elaborate if anybody wishes).

In fairness to Keynes, however, he got one very important thing absolutely correct. Parts of the business cycle are not optimal, and there is space for the government to act in its mitigation. This cannot be understated as a massive improvement upon the neoclassical economics which dominated at the time.

Fiscal Stimulus:

It's important to note that the existence of automatic stabilisers--which are essentially automatic deficits as tax receipts fall and social welfare spending rises during a bust--are useful for at least the partial mitigation of the business cycle. It's for this reason that I feel the Conservatives' pursuance of austerity in the midst of the Recession was probably sub-optimal (shocker), although the existence of a prior structural deficit muddies the issue.

However, where the issue get's really interesting is when short-term interest rates hit zero. The current view of monetary policy--not unjustifiably--is Wicksellian, in that it views monetary policy through a lens of manipulating interest rates. This is essentially why everybody freaked out when central banks started pursuing quantitative easing. Monetary policy works through open market operations, wherein the central bank buys or sells assets (usually short-term treasury bills in the US) in order to influence the supply of money and push the short-term interest rate under their influence up or down.

The conventional, New Keynesian perspective is that we enter a liquidity trap when those short-term interest rates hit zero. And thus monetary policy can't do any more. Thus, we must resort to the oh-so controversial fiscal stimulus to get the economy moving again. Make no mistake, fiscal stimulus works, it's just a question of whether it works better than monetary policy in a liquidity trap. During a liquidity trap, a 2011 paper by Christiano, Eichenbaum and Rebelo found a fiscal multiplier of 1.5 (meaning that fiscal stimulus is essentially worthwhile, under such circumstances).

Fiscal Austerity:

On the flip-side, we have fiscal austerity. There's no doubt that austerity is good form during a growing economy, but evidence suggests that in a liquidity trap the multiplier works in reverse, making austerity painful as the central bank cannot offset it. For some countries, like Greece, they don't really have a choice in austerity; they don't have the historical grounding as a reliable country for debt repayments, and they don't have the freedom that comes with having debt denominated in its own currency like the US. In an incredibly messy financial system, creditors may worry that larger deficits mean increased likelihood of default and so they raise interest rates; but the fact of the matter is that the UK simply wasn't in that position and probably never will be. The claims of the Conservatives on the need to avoid a Greek-like debt crisis were, essentially, false.

Monetary Policy in a liquidity trap:

Now, this is where I become more monetarist than the mainstream. I don't think the New Keynesian argument that liquidity traps kills off the central bank's effectiveness are all that good, and I think there is superior evidence that monetary policy can be effective during a liquidity trap. Just to take Paul Krugman during the 1990s, he argued vehemently (along with Ben Bernanke (the real one)) for more aggressive monetary stimulus in Japan even though they were in a liquidity trap.

It seems that most of the problems associated with monetary policy in liquidity traps are conceptual issues. Like I said, people freak out when the Fed/BoE performs quantitative easing. . . Despite the fact there is no real distinction between short-term treasury bills and long-term treasury bills, or indeed any other kind of asset. The only real liquidity trap would be one in which the central bank has driven the interest rates of every single asset on the planet down to zero (but more on this shortly).

To back this up with some empirical evidence: Lars Svensson (2003) argues for a mixture of clear communication and forward guidance, sticking to the monetary guns and a clear exit strategy (the latter being a significant failing of the Fed's rounds of QE). Eggertson and Woodford (2003) note that liquidity traps can indeed happen, but note alongside Svensson that forward guidance can help to mitigate this. It's also important to note that the degree of leverage (debt) held in an economy can have significant influence on whether or not short-term rates do hit zero.

My recommendations for policy:

I think one of the most important things is to sort out financial regulation. Nobody really knows just how much financial crises affect the business cycle, and I personally don't believe it's very much besides a depression of real GDP growth which can be offset. But, all the same, the uncertainty makes it not worth the risk. We should cut back on excessive, intricate regulation and follow Canada's example: institute broad capital and liquidity requirements to make sure banks can weather crises, and maybe also help counter-party surveillance by mandating public plans of "winding down" should a bank become insolvent (which will also help to combat too-big-to-fail).

In terms of monetary policy, I think the ideal is a nGDP level target wherein the central bank essentially commits to stabilise aggregate demand instead of inflation. However, I'm sceptical of whether or not this is reasonably possible (although evidence does suggest that Alan Greenspan successfully pulled it off from 1992 onwards). If an nGDP level target isn't possible, then maybe Paul Krugman's proposal of a 4pc rate of inflation is worth looking at. Make no mistake, the goal is to make fiscal stimulus unneeded.

If, however, we still hit a liquidity trap then I don't think monetary policy can hold out forever. I mentioned earlier that a "true" liquidity trap would require the central bank to push the interest rates of every single asset on the planet down to zero. While this is true, pursuing such a policy would result in significant capital risk that I'm not sure I can abide. I'm optimistic about the potential of monetary policy to manage the business cycle, but if we have a situation where it begins to fall down I don't think it should be pursued forever. And so we end up with the Larry Summers solution; the central bank pursues quantitative easing to a certain limit of GDP and then automatic fiscal stimulus takes over, mainly through tax cuts. I'm not having none of this politicised fiscal stimulus though.

In terms of austerity: I don't believe austerity should be pursued in times of recession. Automatic stabilisers should remain in place to make sure the contraction isn't excessive, and austerity should be pursued in times of recovery. With a pre-existing deficit, however, it's a lot harder to tell.

TL;DR for the lazy:
- Deficit spending crowds out private investment and hurts growth over the long-term.
- Keynes was wrong about the business cycle.
- Keynes was right that the government has a role.
- Automatic deficits occur when an economy goes into recession, and these are useful.
- Tories kind of fucked up by pursuing austerity when they did, although Labour's over-spending complicates it.
- When short-term interest rates reach zero, conventional wisdom says monetary policy can't do much more.
- Fiscal stimulus works, the question is whether it works better than monetary stimulus.
- Austerity may be necessary to avoid a credit crisis, although the UK wasn't in this position.
- I personally think monetary policy is effective even when rates approach zero.
- We need to make fiscal stimulus unnecessary.
- Monetary policy can probably control the business cycle (it definitely does if we never hit zero rates), but if it can't then some kind of fiscal stimulus could be warranted.

Ultimately, off the poll choices, I'm closest to "monetary stimulus, with delayed austerity".

4545
Serious / Re: The ECB is going to end Greece's bailout
« on: June 28, 2015, 04:26:29 PM »
Does this mean yurop will get it's denbts?
No. It means Greece will likely default and leave the Euro.

4546
Serious / The ECB is going to end Greece's bailout
« on: June 28, 2015, 11:50:16 AM »

4547
Serious / Re: Economics AMA
« on: June 28, 2015, 11:27:03 AM »
Bruh, I'm not trying to be a dick but are you ever offline? Like holy shit.
Yeah; I read for at least four hours a night.

I just usually have my laptop open next to me when I'm doing stuff, and sep7agon is there.

Quote
Anyway how does a country combat inflation?
Tighter monetary policy/raising interest rates.

4548
Serious / Re: Economics AMA
« on: June 28, 2015, 01:44:00 AM »
are you a professor or have a graduate degree?
Nein; I just know more than most here. I make no claims to be an actual economist.

4549
YouTube

4550
Serious / Walmart refuses to make a Confederate flag cake. . .
« on: June 27, 2015, 05:15:59 PM »
But an ISIS flag cake is okay.

YouTube

4551
Serious / Proof that Keynesianism is wrong
« on: June 27, 2015, 03:19:48 PM »
A fiat fundie pro-Pigou-tax nazi eCONomist and Hitler named Paul Krugman was teaching a class on statism and Keynesianism (whoops, tautology!). "Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and accept that Fed Reserve notes are the One True Currency."

At this moment, a praxeologist, libertarian, math-rejecting Austrian who had written over 420 books in plain english and understood that inflation is an increase in the money supply and fully supported the legalization of anarcho-capitalism stood up and held up a gold bar.

"This is inherently valuable.”

The arrogant eCONometrickster smirked quite facistly and smugly replied "Specifically, in EconomicsTM , nothing is inherently valuable you stupid idiot.”

"Wrong. Value is entirely subjective, and humans will always love shiny things like gold because they are horses."

Krugthing was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Mein General Theory. He stormed out of the room crying those nazi Keynesian crocodile tears.

The students applauded and watched YouTube videos about how inflation is theft that day and accepted Bitcoin and Gold as the one true currency. A praxbro named Hans Hoppe flew into the room and perched atop a copy of Human Action and shed a tear on a copy of the U.S. Constitution when he learned gay people could now marry. The Fundamental Axiom was praxxed out several times, and Murray Rothbard himself showed up and abolished all government and central banks across the universe.

Krugthing lost all his tenure and was never stimulated again. He died from cutting himself on his edge while breaking windows and became a professor at CUNY.

That praxeologist's name? Ludwig von Mises.

4552
The Flood / this is why you don't have student hall monitors
« on: June 27, 2015, 03:00:25 PM »
YouTube

4553
The Flood / Re: Things this website has ruined for you
« on: June 27, 2015, 02:56:39 PM »
Definitely the word "Verbatim".

Although I suppose it'll be kind of cool when I'm 60 and read the word in some book or something, and then I'll forever remember all the good times and righteous memes we shared.

4554
phedifiles
Doesn't he know that gheys are the same thing as phedifiles?

4555
They're pursuing this because "maybe don't say shit to people that makes them feel shitty" is something we could generally all adopt.
There's a difference between a policy that says "don't be a cunt" and one that says "sacrifice your intellectual integrity because this generation is essentially pussified".


4556
Serious / Re: Economics AMA
« on: June 27, 2015, 02:06:03 PM »
Post scarcity economy when?
Couple of centuries, maybe.

4557
Serious / Re: Well, we're screwed.
« on: June 26, 2015, 08:29:42 PM »
This is about basic right and wrong, not economics.
>thinks there's a dichotomy

Good economic policy is pretty moral, if you can pull it off. If you're saying the WTO is bad morally, but nevertheless economically beneficial, you have a pretty shit conception of morality.

4558
Serious / Re: Well, we're screwed.
« on: June 26, 2015, 08:26:07 PM »
>calls people naive
>probably doesn't understand economics
>calls wto pure evil anyway


4559
Serious / Re: Well, we're screwed.
« on: June 26, 2015, 07:58:00 PM »
lol I bet you guys support the WTO too
Yes, because I'm not an economically illiterate fuck.

4560
Serious / Re: US Supreme Court rules gay marriage is legal nationwide
« on: June 26, 2015, 07:43:24 PM »
iirc, "libertarian" means something completely different in the UK

it's not like it is in the US
No, you're thinking of liberal.

And even that's slowly coming to mean what it does in the US.

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