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Messages - More Than Mortal
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2041
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:13:39 PM »
Unless you can show me why your point is relevant I'm going to assume it isn't meant to be a serious response.
You're literally talking about deporting people who disagree with the majority. The entire point of having rights is to protect any individual group from coercive populist spasms like what you're suggesting. Public bodies have no right to discriminate against Christian business owners because they are part of the fucking public.
2042
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:01:28 PM »
so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?
I have no idea why you think that would follow from what he said. The country is not private property.
2043
« on: April 02, 2016, 03:52:05 PM »
Why do we have to allow someone to run a business in such an arbitrarily discriminatory fashion just because they it's according to their backwards moral code? If a business can't conduct itself to operate with equity, why do they deserve to have that business?
Because coercing people to act against their beliefs is not preferable to coercing them in the name of sexual equality (probably because it won't work). Religious people who are seriously against gay marriage need to get over themselves, but they shouldn't be forced to partake in anything they don't personally agree with. I know it seems obvious to us that they are morally backwards, but going down the route of the State enforcing morality to that degree is probably not healthy. And why do they deserve that business? Uh, why don't they? Since when was it your role or the government's to decide whether or not somebody should be able to own a business based on their personal beliefs. That's high-level authoritarianism.
2044
« on: April 02, 2016, 03:43:19 PM »
I refuse to believe you're so retarded that you think providing your business's service at a wedding you don't agree with means your religious beliefs are somehow violated.
Good, because I've never said that. Other people feel that way. That's my point. I'm not even religious. And, let's be honest, if they do believe that gay marriage is a sin. . . Then asking them to partake in what they believe to literally be a sinful ceremony is not going to sit well with them. This really isn't difficult. I don't know why you can't just put your hands up and saying "Yes, I'm disregarding the beliefs of the religious, but I believe its worth it." Instead you're just pussyfooting around with mental gymnastics that would make even Camnator blush.
2045
« on: April 02, 2016, 03:37:47 PM »
How is catering a gay wedding any different than catering a hetero wedding?
I refuse to believe you're actually this obtuse with regards to other people's beliefs.
2046
« on: April 02, 2016, 03:32:47 PM »
Being gay has nothing to do with them being a customer, so your business should have no issue providing a good or service for them, just as you would for any other customer.
This is true if they just walk in and buy a cake. It isn't true if they ask you to cater their wedding.
2047
« on: April 02, 2016, 03:09:16 PM »
2048
« on: April 02, 2016, 01:53:04 PM »
when Christians are just as annoying with it.
Are you insane?
2049
« on: April 02, 2016, 01:31:05 PM »
2050
« on: April 02, 2016, 01:27:11 PM »
This could very easily turn into a proxy conflict between Turkey and Russia.
And in other news.
2051
« on: April 02, 2016, 01:17:25 PM »
France ain't fuckin around.Kalashnikov ammunition and Islamist propaganda videos were seized by French police in raids on Sunday after shutting down a mosque in the Paris suburbs, according to French authorities.
Linked to the traditionalist Salafist branch of Islam, the prayer hall in Lagny-sur-Marne, around 18 miles east of the capital, was shut down last Wednesday following a major police operation.
It was the third mosque in France to be closed as part of state of emergency clamp down after the jihadist attacks on Paris on November 13 that killed 130.
During raids linked to the mosque, police found "7.62mm ammunition for a Kalashnikov rifle and propaganda videos" for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil), according to the prefect, the highest state representative, of the Seine-and-Marne department.
The locations of the raids were not disclosed.
A revolver and jihadist documents had already been found during searches at the homes of the mosque leaders, Bernard Cazeneuve, the interior minister, had said last week.
The operation resulted in 22 travel bans and nine house arrests for "radicalised individuals".
Police also found recordings of religious chants "glorifying the martyrs of jihad linked to the terrorist organisation Jabhat al-Nusra", the Syrian branch of al-Qaeda, the prefecture added.
Regulars at the mosque now conduct prayers at a nearby sports pitch.
Pierre Tebaldini, the local centrist mayor, played down the discoveries, saying that nothing was found in the mosque itself to link it to radical Islam.
"Why all this fuss? Is there a link to the regional elections (in France)?," he asked, saying that police found little more than an old pistol and some "prayer chants in Arabic for children".
"Maybe they want to reassure the French, but rather they are discrediting the government's action, above all among Muslims," he said.
2052
« on: April 02, 2016, 12:07:14 PM »
It be kicking off.At least 30 soldiers have been killed in fighting between Armenian and Azerbaijani forces along the frontlines of the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region, officials of both the countries said as they reported the death tolls.
Both sides blamed the other for the fighting that began overnight.
Azerbaijan said on Saturday that Armenian forces killed 12 of its soldiers and shot down a helicopter.
"Twelve Azeri servicemen were killed in action and a helicopter was shot down by Armenian forces," Azerbaijan's defence ministry said in a statement, also claiming that Azeri forces took control of "two strategic heights and a village" in Karabakh.
Azeri troops, meanwhile, killed 18 ethnic-Armenian soldiers, Armenian President Serzh Sarkisian said.
"From our side 18 soldiers were killed and some 35 others wounded," Sarkisian said in a televised statement, not specifying if the soldiers belonged to Yerevan-backed separatist forces in Karabakh or Armenia's armed forces.
The Armenian Defence Ministry spokesperson Artsrun Hovhannisyan wrote on a Facebook post that Armenian forces in the region shot down an Azeri military helicopter, a claim which Azerbaijan denied.
"Active combat is currently under way," Hovhannisyan said. "The Armenian Army has launched a counter-attack. There are victims on both sides but the opposing side has sustained huge losses in manpower and equipment. A [Azerbaijani] helicopter has been shot down." .
2053
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:47:51 AM »
ITT: Saying that I can't freely hate people is bigoted. You're the REAL bigots! Freeze Peach!!!!
Are you dumb? Legislating against hate doesn't make people hate others less. You can't get people to stop being homophobic by outlawing it, even if there is a role for the law to play.
2054
« on: April 02, 2016, 04:33:56 AM »
OP's a fucking faggot.
Shut up, OP.
2055
« on: April 01, 2016, 07:13:34 PM »
This has been happening to me a lot recently, although over multiple sites.
2056
« on: April 01, 2016, 07:09:42 PM »
I'm curious as to where in any religious text is Part C referenced
The sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions protected by this act are the belief or conviction that:
(a) Marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman;
(b) Sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage; and
(c) Male (man) or female (woman) refer to an individual’s immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy and genetics at time of birth. http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2016/html/HB/1500-1599/HB1523CS.htm
Psalm 139:13.
2057
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:28:16 PM »
What happens when the expression of your rights infringes upon the rights of someone else?
Refusing to cater a wedding doesn't infringe on the rights of anybody. Gay people don't have the right to demand services from anybody.
2058
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:23:45 PM »
there's no reason the state should make laws to protect that hatefulness.
No, but you seem to be forgetting that freedom to your religion, freedom of association and freedom of conscience are all human rights protected by law. I wouldn't want for anybody to feel as if their moral integrity has been harmed. I don't see why a Christian should be forced to cater for a gay wedding, why a Muslim should be forced to cater for a Jewish ceremony or why any kind of theist should be forced to cater for some kind of atheist event.
2059
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:20:12 PM »
How is baking a cake, providing flowers, etc, mean you're partaking in a sinful event? You're not really asking me how providing a service for a ceremony means you're partaking in that ceremony, are you? Get a fucking grip. If a person who buys a plain chocolate cake from a baker happens to be gay, does that mean the baker is sinful now? No, because that retarded.
Well yeah, because then the baker isn't knowingly facilitating a sinful event.
2060
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:16:15 PM »
If you disagree with that, you're advocating a refusal of services based on sexuality.
You're missing some of the nuance of his point, though. There's a difference between a straight guy and a gay guy walking into the store, buying a cake and then waking out again; compared with having a business actively cater for a ceremony they fundamentally disagree with.
2061
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:14:38 PM »
How is it discrimination for you to provide the good or service of your business to all customers?
It's discriminatory to legally require businesses to provide services for events or functions which they believe are immoral. Whatever you think about the belief, a lot of Christians think gay marriage is a sin. Forcing people to partake in something which they feel hurts their moral integrity is discriminatory in the most obvious of ways.
2062
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:10:25 PM »
Refusing to serve someone because of the way they were born is discrimination.
. . . My entire point relies on the fact that they are both forms of discrimination. So, yeah, I already knew that.
2063
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:08:23 PM »
but religious freedom is not as important as human rights.
^ This is a real, non-hypocritical justification.
2064
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:07:18 PM »
But when your actions discriminate against gays, that's a problem and it infringes upon their rights as human beings.
Seriously, can none of you read? Let me make it clear: forcing Christians to perform a service they disagree with due to their beliefs is discrimination. If you think that's okay, I don't care. It's not the discussion I'm having here. What I am saying is that justifying discrimination against Christians on the grounds of being anti-discrimination is fucking dumb. If you still want to discriminate against Christians, then fine. Just find a better justification for it.
2065
« on: April 01, 2016, 04:04:28 PM »
Answer the fucking question.
Sorry, can't you read? What part of "I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law" did you not understand? It's not a discussion I'm willing to have.
2066
« on: April 01, 2016, 03:57:54 PM »
when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.
Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.
Could they refuse to cater to a black marriage because of their personal beliefs? Of course not. Sexuality and race are both protected statuses under the law, and if your religion is forcing you to discriminate against someone, that's a problem with the religion, not the law.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite. If you think we oughtn't respect the beliefs of the religious, then fine. But fucking say that, don't try and justify it while flouting your credentials as somebody who fights discrimination.
2067
« on: April 01, 2016, 03:46:51 PM »
is this an April fools joke
No.
2068
« on: April 01, 2016, 03:45:43 PM »
Any group, under the law, deserves the same exact treatment as any other group.
Great. So Christians and gays should both have the right to refuse service to each other.
2069
« on: April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PM »
when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.
Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.
2070
« on: April 01, 2016, 03:41:58 PM »
equality good!
Only when applied to the approved groups though, right?
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