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Messages - More Than Mortal
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10441
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:58:42 PM »
I don't agree with this. Sure - life would be shit for people, but that doesn't mean that the group of people cannot begin anew and start a civilization once more.
You're moving the goalposts. The question is about whether you can ever have a moral trade-off between the subjugation of one party and the well-being of another, and where that threshold lies. In this scenario, this is the only way to achieve anything near to a utopia.
10442
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:57:11 PM »
Is it more or less cruel to stay in or leave the city?
It's crueler to stay because you're taking advantage of the kid's suffering.
Since you're choosing not to rescue the kid either way, some people could argue it'd be cruel to not stay in the city and at least derive some benefit from the suffering of the child. Leaving the city is leaving the child to its fate, and making its suffering pointless. At least potentially.
10443
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:53:10 PM »
Let's not argue about the semantics of the situation. Assuming a utopia is defined as 1, this hypothetical world lies at 0.9 recurring. We're also assuming that reaching 1 isn't a possibility, and rescuing the child would reduce the net rating of the world.
Anybody who chooses to rescue the child is simply being irrational. Especially when you could just leave the city. However, this leads to the second question - which nobody has answered. Is it more or less cruel to stay in or leave the city?
10444
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:39:11 PM »
If you're asking why the child is maintaining this utopia, you're completely missing the point.
10445
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:31:23 PM »
Sorry, but this shouldn't be in Serious.
10446
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:30:14 PM »
Why is that?
The erosion of civil liberties is directly beneficial to those who work at the top of government. Why remove a source of power?
10447
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:25:08 PM »
Posted by Turkey in Dustin's thread, I felt it warranted its own discussion. It's based on The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas. There's a utopian society with literally no strife. No rulers or politicians, police, or soldiers. Everyone is happy and they're free to explore whatever intellectual or creative passion they desire.
When each citizen reaches a certain age, they're shown the city's secret: In a small, dark closet in a cellar, with no windows, there's a child sitting naked and dirty. The child's malnourished, and mentally ill. It gets fed every now and then by being kicked awake and given a bowl of greasy corn meal, and it lives in its own filth and excrement.
Everyone of age knows about the child, and most accept it. If the child were to leave the room or otherwise be treated well, all the prosperity of Omelas would end forever and the city would be destroyed. Eventually, some people choose to leave the city, and never return.
-Would you walk away?
-Is it more cruel to accept the child's sacrifice, or to abandon the city?
-Is it justifiable to rescue the child and destroy the city?
10448
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:23:33 PM »
Yes.
No.
No.
Although, if I were in government, I wouldn't reverse the trend.
10449
« on: December 05, 2014, 01:17:50 PM »
ITT: question dodging.
This really is just a linguistic reformation of divine command theory.
Would you obey God if he ordered you to do something patently unethical?
10450
« on: December 05, 2014, 11:49:44 AM »
Hey, Dustin.
10451
« on: December 05, 2014, 02:34:49 AM »
-Would you walk away?
-Is it more cruel to accept the child's sacrifice, or to abandon the city?
-Is it justifiable to rescue the child and destroy the city?
No. Don't care. No.
10452
« on: December 05, 2014, 02:32:49 AM »
Speaking as a citizen? The individual.
10453
« on: December 04, 2014, 04:37:19 PM »
We spend too much. Pensions, healthcare, everything. Population dynamics turn it on its head.
Which is why you can't socialise services without it becoming massively inefficient in the end. People ought to pay for themselves.
10454
« on: December 04, 2014, 09:38:29 AM »
I wouldn't expect the police to be acting in any other way.
That said, their militarisation is worrisome - I just don't blame the officers.
10455
« on: December 03, 2014, 02:26:59 PM »
Did I just get parodied?
perhaps he parodied the people that conditioned you and i to think this way.
You've had enough to think, citizen.
10456
« on: December 03, 2014, 01:56:34 PM »
Somebody died in his choke hold?
10457
« on: December 03, 2014, 01:37:42 PM »
Anybody who proposes this view, in sentiment if not in words, is mentally disabled. The first rule of economics is that scarcity matters.
Happiness, love, hate and anger are important precisely because they are not eternal. What value is an emotion if you have an infinite capacity to experience it? Not to mention, the proposition is itself inherently sadomasochistic; it is the reverence of death over life. The establishment of an eschatological cult that can only wish for the End of Days.
10458
« on: December 03, 2014, 11:38:55 AM »
And he wanted society to go back to the old Greek gods which were about culture and spirit rather than origin, right?
Not necessarily. Nietzsche certainly had a thing for the Greeks as they had a culture based around aristocratic "master" morality, which he preferred to the egalitarian "slave" morality of trends like Christianity. Funnily enough, however, he actually considered Christ to be a Overman - just one he disagreed with. Nietzsche, fundamentally, is anti-system. He isn't for the return to Greek society, purely because such would be a violation of his own ideas that only individuals can break away from the herd.
10459
« on: December 03, 2014, 11:34:16 AM »
The two are not mutually exclusive; in fact, they're highly correlated.
Putin would cause war if it suited his interests.
10460
« on: December 03, 2014, 11:30:23 AM »
When he says that God is dead, is he referring to the rise of Christianity or its fall?
The rise of nihilism.
10461
« on: December 03, 2014, 02:08:53 AM »
Sorry, I can't really relate. Death just doesn't scare me. It's like an off-switch to me. Nothing matters when you're dead because you're no longer extant to experience or comprehend it.
10462
« on: December 02, 2014, 05:24:12 PM »
>yfw nietzsche hated nihilism
Didn't he argue that it was the inevitable salvation from theism?
Nah m90 He was an existentialist. He believed the "Death of God" led to the nihilism we currently experience, and he thought The Last Man - a being of weakness and simply hedonism, the antithesis of the Overman - could be one response to this nihilism, but he despised the possibility.
10463
« on: December 02, 2014, 05:19:22 PM »
>yfw nietzsche hated nihilism
10464
« on: December 02, 2014, 04:51:52 PM »
Nietzsche is my favourite philosopher.
However, Nietzsche's style is extremely esoteric; he even expressed himself the idea that his work was to be read and understood by a select few people. The Will to Power, essentially, is the idea of self-overcoming and personal improvement through ambition and an expression of one's will. It doesn't necessarily mean domination and control, Nietzsche even expressed disdain for the like of political leaders, and politics in general.
I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
10465
« on: December 02, 2014, 03:05:44 PM »
Citizen, it's like you want the Eurasians to win. Report yourself for re-education, at once. It's a doubleplusgood bellyfeel! Remember, we're over there to keep your safe here from the Eastasians.
10466
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:52:58 PM »
Psychopathy is measured on a rating system. Not everybody who has it will be a criminal, but there's a higher chance when they meet a certain threshold and should be minimally recommended professional supervision once they exceeded the average prisoner score of 22.1
Well, yes, I know that. You're missing my point.
10467
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:41:50 PM »
so he could have very well committed his crime at the point where he was self-aware of what he was doing
People who commit vandalism and perform other antisocial behaviours could well be psychopaths. Psychopaths are fucking dangerous; serial killers are often psychopaths. We should indefinitely imprison people who commit antisocial behaviour.
10468
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:35:39 PM »
but he's still a scumbag
Have you ever considered the possibility of education yourself on the issue of mental illness?
10469
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:07:49 PM »
Wouldn't say American conservatives are close to people on your side of the aisle, but yes.
I'd sooner consider myself a conservative in America than a libertarian.
10470
« on: December 02, 2014, 01:17:17 PM »
It gives me a sense of hope to know that in times of overwhelming circumstances, the people on my side of the aisle are capable of overcoming their ideological fixtures.
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