Quote from: Little Willie on April 02, 2016, 05:30:06 AM

In the South everyday is Jim Crow day.

This is fucking ridiculous.


How the fuck are store owners supposed to actively discriminate against homosexuals anyway? There is no real gay look, accent, or tell.

That's actually a great argument, but it doesn't support your position. Being gay has nothing to do with them being a customer, so your business should have no issue providing a good or service for them, just as you would for any other customer.

Quote from: Mad Max on April 02, 2016, 03:26:54 PM

Being gay has nothing to do with them being a customer, so your business should have no issue providing a good or service for them, just as you would for any other customer.

This is true if they just walk in and buy a cake. It isn't true if they ask you to cater their wedding.

I disagree. How is catering a gay wedding any different than catering a hetero wedding? You still provide the same service. You still use the same catering trays, plates, silverware, and napkins. You still cook the same foods.

Quote from: Mad Max on April 02, 2016, 03:36:48 PM

How is catering a gay wedding any different than catering a hetero wedding?

I refuse to believe you're actually this obtuse with regards to other people's beliefs.

I refuse to believe you're so retarded that you think providing your business's service at a wedding you don't agree with means your religious beliefs are somehow violated.

Quote from: Mad Max on April 02, 2016, 03:40:17 PM

I refuse to believe you're so retarded that you think providing your business's service at a wedding you don't agree with means your religious beliefs are somehow violated.

Good, because I've never said that.

Other people feel that way. That's my point. I'm not even religious. And, let's be honest, if they do believe that gay marriage is a sin. . . Then asking them to partake in what they believe to literally be a sinful ceremony is not going to sit well with them.

This really isn't difficult. I don't know why you can't just put your hands up and saying "Yes, I'm disregarding the beliefs of the religious, but I believe its worth it." Instead you're just pussyfooting around with mental gymnastics that would make even Camnator blush.

Why do we have to allow someone to run a business in such an arbitrarily discriminatory fashion just because they it's according to their backwards moral code? If a business can't conduct itself to operate with equity, why do they deserve to have that business?

Why do we have to allow someone to run a business in such an arbitrarily discriminatory fashion just because they it's according to their backwards moral code? If a business can't conduct itself to operate with equity, why do they deserve to have that business?

Because coercing people to act against their beliefs is not preferable to coercing them in the name of sexual equality (probably because it won't work). Religious people who are seriously against gay marriage need to get over themselves, but they shouldn't be forced to partake in anything they don't personally agree with. I know it seems obvious to us that they are morally backwards, but going down the route of the State enforcing morality to that degree is probably not healthy.

And why do they deserve that business? Uh, why don't they? Since when was it your role or the government's to decide whether or not somebody should be able to own a business based on their personal beliefs. That's high-level authoritarianism.

Any business owner has the right to deny ANY business they please for any reason they want, no shirt, no Bicycles, no left knees, whatever they want. It's their PRIVATE company and assets, you or some guy down the street don't have any right to demand ANYTHING out of them. Its a shitty business practice, and that's why most don't do such, but it's completely their choice how they run their business and who is allowed in their establishment, and who is allowed to use their services. Doesnt matter who you are, or what you fuck, if the owner doesn't like you, get the hell out of the owner's establishment.

so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?

I have no idea why you think that would follow from what he said.

The country is not private property.

Quote from: Tsirist on April 02, 2016, 03:57:19 PM

so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?

I have no idea why you think that would follow from what he said.

The country is not private property.

There are functional/practical differences between public and private yes, however when discussing matters of principle like this there is little difference. Both demonstrate hierarchies of ownership, both exist to achieve certain purposes and provide services, etc.

Unless you can show me why your point is relevant I'm going to assume it isn't meant to be a serious response.

Quote from: eggsalad on April 02, 2016, 03:47:00 PM

Why do we have to allow someone to run a business in such an arbitrarily discriminatory fashion just because they it's according to their backwards moral code? If a business can't conduct itself to operate with equity, why do they deserve to have that business?

Because coercing people to act against their beliefs is not preferable to coercing them in the name of sexual equality (probably because it won't work). Religious people who are seriously against gay marriage need to get over themselves, but they shouldn't be forced to partake in anything they don't personally agree with. I know it seems obvious to us that they are morally backwards, but going down the route of the State enforcing morality to that degree is probably not healthy.

And why do they deserve that business? Uh, why don't they? Since when was it your role or the government's to decide whether or not somebody should be able to own a business based on their personal beliefs. That's high-level authoritarianism.

Well first off I'd like to say that no one is being forced to cater to gay weddings. They're being forced to cater to gay weddings if they wish to continue running a business.

 If you want to work at a butchery, have fun getting fired when you refuse to touch pork. When you choose to enter an industry, you either fulfill expectations or you're out. We already have this contract in establishing a business. You're expected to provide services to customers who pay you to do so.

This isn't about forcing a business to operate in ways that harm its profit, or to forcing them to draw graphic depictions of dicks and vaginas on their cakes, this is asking them to operate on common moral principles. This already exists in various forms, from minimum wage to child labor laws to taxes to safety code and ordinances. These things are all for the most part considered unanimously good because they ensure that businesses behave themselves, since naturally there are areas where personal interest is detrimental to a healthy community.

Not everywhere is a big city, thinking you can just sit on your ass and wait for social standards to change is part of what's caused the current phenomenon we've seen where LGBT and blacks flee to urban areas where the model of "let capitalism fix it" works faster, because it's too damn slow in small communities which don't have significant enough people being excluded from things to fuel some messiah business.

If you remove businesses that discriminate, you've got better chances at establishing equitable businesses because someone will have more interest in filling that niche than if you just let the first business continue making bank off of their heterosexual majority.

Unless you can show me why your point is relevant I'm going to assume it isn't meant to be a serious response.

You're literally talking about deporting people who disagree with the majority. The entire point of having rights is to protect any individual group from coercive populist spasms like what you're suggesting.

Public bodies have no right to discriminate against Christian business owners because they are part of the fucking public.

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on April 02, 2016, 03:56:16 PM

Any business owner has the right to deny ANY business they please for any reason they want, no shirt, no Bicycles, no left knees, whatever they want. It's their PRIVATE company and assets, you or some guy down the street don't have any right to demand ANYTHING out of them. Its a shitty business practice, and that's why most don't do such, but it's completely their choice how they run their business and who is allowed in their establishment, and who is allowed to use their services. Doesnt matter who you are, or what you fuck, if the owner doesn't like you, get the hell out of the owner's establishment.

so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?

because a country isn't a business, they are two completely different things. trying to compare them is idiotic. but there are solutions to your problem, you CAN run them out of business by boycotting them. and if they arent out of business when you're done boycotting, then clearly you're a minority of the area and people that matter to the business owner still want that person's business there. Don't like it? then go to the competitor, and buy your goods there, If there isnt a competitor there, then either stay where you are and use amazon or something,move to accomedate for your needs, or if you're feeling ambitious, go to the sources of the business, and begin to compete with the business. Don't lie those options? tough shit.  If you move into a desert and then complain that there's no water, it's your own damn fault isn't it?

Quote from: Tsirist on April 02, 2016, 03:57:19 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on April 02, 2016, 03:56:16 PM

Any business owner has the right to deny ANY business they please for any reason they want, no shirt, no Bicycles, no left knees, whatever they want. It's their PRIVATE company and assets, you or some guy down the street don't have any right to demand ANYTHING out of them. Its a shitty business practice, and that's why most don't do such, but it's completely their choice how they run their business and who is allowed in their establishment, and who is allowed to use their services. Doesnt matter who you are, or what you fuck, if the owner doesn't like you, get the hell out of the owner's establishment.

so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?

because a country isn't a business, they are two completely different things. trying to compare them is idiotic. but there are solutions to your problem, you CAN run them out of business by boycotting them. and if they arent out of business when you're done boycotting, then clearly you're a minority of the area and people that matter to the business owner still want that person's business there. Don't like it? then go to the competitor, and buy your goods there, If there isnt a competitor there, then either stay where you are and use amazon or something,move to accomedate for your needs, or if you're feeling ambitious, go to the sources of the business, and begin to compete with the business. Don't lie those options? tough shit.  If you move into a desert and then complain that there's no water, it's your own damn fault isn't it?

Literally the same as Islamic no-go zones fucking lmao.

Besides, you literally just said it yourself: one part of the public (the business owners) can discriminate against other parts of the public (other individuals) but apparently the inverse should not be true?

I have no idea where you're pulling that notion from.

Other individuals can discriminate against business owners (by not purchasing their goods) much more easily than business owners can discriminate against potential customers. You can choose to not shop at a particular store for literally whatever reason.

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on April 02, 2016, 04:21:44 PM

Quote from: Tsirist on April 02, 2016, 03:57:19 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on April 02, 2016, 03:56:16 PM

Any business owner has the right to deny ANY business they please for any reason they want, no shirt, no Bicycles, no left knees, whatever they want. It's their PRIVATE company and assets, you or some guy down the street don't have any right to demand ANYTHING out of them. Its a shitty business practice, and that's why most don't do such, but it's completely their choice how they run their business and who is allowed in their establishment, and who is allowed to use their services. Doesnt matter who you are, or what you fuck, if the owner doesn't like you, get the hell out of the owner's establishment.

so if we the people don't like a business why can't we kick them out of our establishment, i.e. the country?

because a country isn't a business, they are two completely different things. trying to compare them is idiotic. but there are solutions to your problem, you CAN run them out of business by boycotting them. and if they arent out of business when you're done boycotting, then clearly you're a minority of the area and people that matter to the business owner still want that person's business there. Don't like it? then go to the competitor, and buy your goods there, If there isnt a competitor there, then either stay where you are and use amazon or something,move to accomedate for your needs, or if you're feeling ambitious, go to the sources of the business, and begin to compete with the business. Don't lie those options? tough shit.  If you move into a desert and then complain that there's no water, it's your own damn fault isn't it?

Literally the same as Islamic no-go zones fucking lmao.

welcome to the real world tumblrina, would you like me to take your pacifier on the way out?

seriously, if my raging dike of a sister can figure this shit out and move to the next town over, when the one she was in was a clearly hyper christian one that wouldn't take kindly to her faggotry, surely you can.