Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PMQuote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PMwhen in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.Could they refuse to cater to a black marriage because of their personal beliefs? Of course not. Sexuality and race are both protected statuses under the law, and if your religion is forcing you to discriminate against someone, that's a problem with the religion, not the law.
Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PMwhen in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.
when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.
Could they refuse to cater to a black marriage because of their personal beliefs?
Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:52:22 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMNot one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.Those exist? Well that's news to me.YouTube
Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMNot one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.Those exist? Well that's news to me.
Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.
Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.
And it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:47:35 PMQuote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PMQuote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PMwhen in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.Could they refuse to cater to a black marriage because of their personal beliefs? Of course not. Sexuality and race are both protected statuses under the law, and if your religion is forcing you to discriminate against someone, that's a problem with the religion, not the law.QuoteI'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.If you think we oughtn't respect the beliefs of the religious, then fine. But fucking say that, don't try and justify it while flouting your credentials as somebody who fights discrimination.
Is this an April fools thread
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:54:27 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.Denying someone a service because it engages with a specific activity that they are not comfortable with is not discrimination, and it never will be, no matter how much you crybabies scream about it.If someone approached me to hypothetically design a hardcore BDSM themed product I'm well within my rights to tell them to fuck off, as would most of you I would wager. LGBT rights and business autonomy are not interchangeable, surprisingly enough.
Answer the fucking question.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:01:16 PMAnswer the fucking question.Sorry, can't you read? What part of "I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law" did you not understand? It's not a discussion I'm willing to have.
But when your actions discriminate against gays, that's a problem and it infringes upon their rights as human beings.
Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 04:02:34 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:54:27 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.Denying someone a service because it engages with a specific activity that they are not comfortable with is not discrimination, and it never will be, no matter how much you crybabies scream about it.If someone approached me to hypothetically design a hardcore BDSM themed product I'm well within my rights to tell them to fuck off, as would most of you I would wager. LGBT rights and business autonomy are not interchangeable, surprisingly enough.You're denying someone a service because of the way they were born. You're not born a BDSM enthusiast, so your little metaphor doesn't hold up.
but religious freedom is not as important as human rights.
Quote from: Mad Max on April 01, 2016, 04:02:44 PMBut when your actions discriminate against gays, that's a problem and it infringes upon their rights as human beings.Seriously, can none of you read? Let me make it clear: forcing Christians to perform a service they disagree with due to their beliefs is discrimination. If you think that's okay, I don't care. It's not the discussion I'm having here. What I am saying is that justifying discrimination against Christians on the grounds of being anti-discrimination is fucking dumb. If you still want to discriminate against Christians, then fine. Just find a better justification for it.
Refusing to serve someone because of the way they were born is discrimination.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:03:50 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 04:02:34 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:54:27 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.Denying someone a service because it engages with a specific activity that they are not comfortable with is not discrimination, and it never will be, no matter how much you crybabies scream about it.If someone approached me to hypothetically design a hardcore BDSM themed product I'm well within my rights to tell them to fuck off, as would most of you I would wager. LGBT rights and business autonomy are not interchangeable, surprisingly enough.You're denying someone a service because of the way they were born. You're not born a BDSM enthusiast, so your little metaphor doesn't hold up.Denying someone a service because of their sexual orientation is already illegal. That's not what anyone is positing in this thread.
How is it discrimination for you to provide the good or service of your business to all customers?
If you disagree with that, you're advocating a refusal of services based on sexuality.
Quote from: Mad Max on April 01, 2016, 04:10:43 PMHow is it discrimination for you to provide the good or service of your business to all customers?It's discriminatory to legally require businesses to provide services for events or functions which they believe are immoral. Whatever you think about the belief, a lot of Christians think gay marriage is a sin. Forcing people to partake in something which they feel hurts their moral integrity is discriminatory in the most obvious of ways.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:11:17 PMIf you disagree with that, you're advocating a refusal of services based on sexuality.You're missing some of the nuance of his point, though. There's a difference between a straight guy and a gay guy walking into the store, buying a cake and then waking out again; compared with having a business actively cater for a ceremony they fundamentally disagree with.
How is baking a cake, providing flowers, etc, mean you're partaking in a sinful event?
If a person who buys a plain chocolate cake from a baker happens to be gay, does that mean the baker is sinful now? No, because that retarded.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 04:16:15 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:11:17 PMIf you disagree with that, you're advocating a refusal of services based on sexuality.You're missing some of the nuance of his point, though. There's a difference between a straight guy and a gay guy walking into the store, buying a cake and then waking out again; compared with having a business actively cater for a ceremony they fundamentally disagree with.Again, that's a problem with the religion, not the law. If a religion mandates its followers to discriminate against people, there's no reason the state should make laws to protect that hatefulness.
Quote from: Mad Max on April 01, 2016, 04:18:02 PMHow is baking a cake, providing flowers, etc, mean you're partaking in a sinful event?You're not really asking me how providing a service for a ceremony means you're partaking in that ceremony, are you? Get a fucking grip. QuoteIf a person who buys a plain chocolate cake from a baker happens to be gay, does that mean the baker is sinful now? No, because that retarded. Well yeah, because then the baker isn't knowingly facilitating a sinful event.
Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 04:08:00 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:03:50 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 04:02:34 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:54:27 PMQuote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PMAnd it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.Denying someone a service because it engages with a specific activity that they are not comfortable with is not discrimination, and it never will be, no matter how much you crybabies scream about it.If someone approached me to hypothetically design a hardcore BDSM themed product I'm well within my rights to tell them to fuck off, as would most of you I would wager. LGBT rights and business autonomy are not interchangeable, surprisingly enough.You're denying someone a service because of the way they were born. You're not born a BDSM enthusiast, so your little metaphor doesn't hold up.Denying someone a service because of their sexual orientation is already illegal. That's not what anyone is positing in this thread.Yes, it is. If a straight person has a right to marriage, then a gay person does as well. If a straight person can walk into a store and buy a wedding cake, then a gay person can walk into the same store and buy the same wedding cake. If you disagree with that, you're advocating a refusal of services based on sexuality.
there's no reason the state should make laws to protect that hatefulness.
My nationalistic ideology prohibits racemixing. Were I a service provider for hire, could I rightfully deny services for marriages to mixed race couples?
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 04:18:49 PMthere's no reason the state should make laws to protect that hatefulness.No, but you seem to be forgetting that freedom to your religion, freedom to association and freedom of conscience are all human rights protected by law. I wouldn't want for anybody to feel as if their moral integrity has been harmed. I don't see why a Christian should be forced to cater for a gay wedding, why a Muslim should be forced to cater for a Jewish ceremony or why any kind of theist should be forced to cater for some kind of atheist event.
What happens when the expression of your rights infringes upon the rights of someone else?
Mississippi Legislature passes another Religious Freedom Bill
