Mississippi Legislature passes another Religious Freedom Bill

Luciana · April 01, 2016, 02:57:08 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/01/us/mississippi-religious-freedom-bill/index.html

Basically another southern state passing one of those bills that allows businesses to openly choose how they handle some situations based on their "Religious Beliefs".

Seems to be cropping up in a lot of the southern states unsurprisingly.

April 01, 2016, 03:03:09 PM

These futile displays of "religious freedom" will peter out eventually. Some people are just sore losers.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM

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Luciana · April 01, 2016, 03:10:42 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM

There is literally nothing wrong with this, and if you think there is you have no business calling yourself a liberal.

I think anything that allows room for discrimination, left or right, is rather stupid. I personally think it's actually making religion a casualty and an excuse here.

Also, idk how disagreeing with it doesn't make someone a liberal. That's kind of confusing me. Could you elaborate?

April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM

There is literally nothing wrong with this, and if you think there is you have no business calling yourself a liberal.

Discrimination bad, equality good!

This isn't a hard concept to figure out.

Mad Max · April 01, 2016, 03:13:09 PM

it must be really scary to be religious in the US - feeling like you're in a constant state of threat and everyone is out to get you, so much so that you need to pass laws to 'protect' your freedom.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 01, 2016, 03:14:08 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 01, 2016, 03:15:35 PM

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Mad Max · April 01, 2016, 03:15:53 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM
There is literally nothing wrong with this, and if you think there is you have no business calling yourself a liberal.
Discrimination bad, equality good!

This isn't a hard concept to figure out.
Oh, I see, I see.

So policies that could require people to act counter to their religious beliefs are okay because LGBTQWTFBBQ rights are more important than religious rights. Gotcha.

You seem to be under the impression that LGBT rights and religious freedom are at odds, and the more LGBT rights there are, the less religious freedom you have.

April 01, 2016, 03:16:55 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:14:08 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM
There is literally nothing wrong with this, and if you think there is you have no business calling yourself a liberal.
Discrimination bad, equality good!

This isn't a hard concept to figure out.
Oh, I see, I see.

So policies that could require people to act counter to their religious beliefs are okay because LGBTQWTFBBQ rights are more important than religious rights. Gotcha.

LGBT rights are human rights. It's the basic principle that anyone who's born in America has the same legal protections as anyone else born in America, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, creed, or ethnicity. And yes, that's much more important than "lol the cloudman says im not aloud to sell wedding cakes to faggots"

Luciana · April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:15:35 PM

Is that not the entire point of laws in a liberal republic?

I've never seen a more self fulfilling prophecy than the social conservatives freaking out and passing these bills under the auspices of protecting their religious freedom when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.

What happened to that one small line in the Deceleration of Independence people love to champion. The whole "All men are created equal" thing?

Also, can you elaborate on your liberal comment in an earlier post? I wanted to know what you meant.

Mad Max · April 01, 2016, 03:22:45 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:15:35 PM

Is that not the entire point of laws in a liberal republic?

I don't really understand what you mean by this.

Mordo · April 01, 2016, 03:33:42 PM

I wonder if the progressive sphere will finally recognise Islamic businesses that do this sort of thing as well.

I mean, if you're going to be a bunch of anti business fascists, at least be consistent ones.

April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PM

Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:33:42 PM

I wonder if the progressive sphere will finally recognise Islamic businesses that do this sort of thing as well.

And it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.

Liberals aren't pro-Muslim, we're anti-bigotry.

More Than Mortal · April 01, 2016, 03:41:58 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM

equality good!

Only when applied to the approved groups though, right?

April 01, 2016, 03:44:09 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:41:58 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
equality good!
Only when applied to the approved groups though, right?

Any group, under the law, deserves the same exact treatment as any other group.

So no.

I don't know why this forum has all these misconceptions about liberal beliefs.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 01, 2016, 03:44:25 PM

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More Than Mortal · April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PM

Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PM

when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.

Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.

More Than Mortal · April 01, 2016, 03:45:43 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:44:09 PM

Any group, under the law, deserves the same exact treatment as any other group.

Great.

So Christians and gays should both have the right to refuse service to each other.

April 01, 2016, 03:47:35 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PM

Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PM
when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.
Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.

Could they refuse to cater to a black marriage because of their personal beliefs? Of course not. Sexuality and race are both protected statuses under the law, and if your religion is forcing you to discriminate against someone, that's a problem with the religion, not the law.

April 01, 2016, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:45:43 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
Any group, under the law, deserves the same exact treatment as any other group.
Great.

So Christians and gays should both have the right to refuse service to each other.

If a gay bakery refused to serve a heavily-Christian wedding, they should get in just as much trouble with the law.

Luciana · April 01, 2016, 03:49:26 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 01, 2016, 03:44:34 PM

Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:17:14 PM
when in reality it's just discriminating against people or beliefs they don't particularly feel comfortable with.
Except this is exactly what progressives do when they demand that Christian business owners serve LGBT individuals. When you say to a Christian bakery, or whatever, "You have to cater to this gay wedding" you are discriminating against them because you are uncomfortable with their beliefs.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the law; just that you're being a hypocrite.

I actually disagreed with that whole cake store thing to begin with. If someone who's super religious isn't comfortable with it, I think that's fine to an extent. However on the flip side, it is a business. And as a business, I don't think it's right to disapprove someone simply because of something like their sexuality. I don't think the couple should have gone as far as to sue them, but I do think it's rather petty for both sides to not come to some agreement, especially in America where 50% of straight marriages fail anyway.

Luciana · April 01, 2016, 03:50:24 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:44:25 PM

look, laws that actively prevent someone from doing something based on sexuality, ethnicity, etc are discriminatory. I do not advocate those. However, as far as I know, this law does not do that.

Unless I have missed something, this law ensures a person can refuse to do business based on their religious beliefs. That is far from discrimination. There are quite a few wedding cake stores in that state. As far as I know.

The liberal position here is that man may choose who he does business with. Sorry, that's it. Like you wouldn't ask a gay man to bake a cake that says "god hates fags", a man whose religion is opposed to homosexuality shouldn't be wrangled into making a gay wedding cake.

Now, if this bill actually lays out a policy that discriminates (like the bathroom law in NC), I am misinformed and would be happy to reassess based on the accurate information.

Understandable, but I'd like to point out one thing.

Quote

Like you wouldn't ask a gay man to bake a cake that says "god hates fags", a man whose religion is opposed to homosexuality shouldn't be wrangled into making a gay wedding cake.

The only problem here is for this cake example you're bringing up, the gay couple wouldn't have used hate speech whatsoever. There is a difference between stupid and ignorant hate speech, and just refusing someone simply because they may love their same sex.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 01, 2016, 03:50:30 PM

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challengerX · April 01, 2016, 03:51:08 PM

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Mordo · April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PM

And it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.

That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?

Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.

I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.

Luciana · April 01, 2016, 03:52:22 PM

Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PM

Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.

Those exist? Well that's news to me.

Mordo · April 01, 2016, 03:53:33 PM

Quote from: Luciana on April 01, 2016, 03:52:22 PM

Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PM
Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.
Those exist? Well that's news to me.

YouTube

Mad Max · April 01, 2016, 03:54:22 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:50:30 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on April 01, 2016, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on April 01, 2016, 03:08:33 PM
There is literally nothing wrong with this, and if you think there is you have no business calling yourself a liberal.
Discrimination bad, equality good!

This isn't a hard concept to figure out.
Oh, I see, I see.

So policies that could require people to act counter to their religious beliefs are okay because LGBTQWTFBBQ rights are more important than religious rights. Gotcha.
You seem to be under the impression that LGBT rights and religious freedom are at odds, and the more LGBT rights there are, the less religious freedom you have.
Clearly you don't understand my position at all.

So then clear it up for me. Why do you think LGBT rights have anything to do with your religious freedom?

April 01, 2016, 03:54:27 PM

Quote from: Mordo on April 01, 2016, 03:51:22 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 01, 2016, 03:37:36 PM
And it's bad when that happens, too. Discrimination is discrimination. Not sure what you're trying to prove here.
That morally sanctimonious fuckwits always seem to turn out to be hypocrites?

Let's cut the shit here. That whole bakery fiasco was a complete one sided attack on Christian inspired businesses. Not one word was mentioned of any Islamic bakeries that behaved similarly towards LGBT customers.

I could give you a run down of how the free market responds to decisions like these and how this really isn't a problem at all, as I have done innumerable times in this forum, but I feel like it would fall on deaf ears.

Go write an article criticizing Huffpost or some shit, I couldn't care less about the reason why you're being discriminatory. The point is that discrimination is happening. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, it doesn't matter in the least. This is about rights under the law, not religion.