You're thinking of people too literally. Think about what's in their minds instead. Their ambitions are defined by their ideals; as long as they are alive, their ideal survives. If some rational thought causes their ideals to change, their ideals have died prematurely. Thus, it depends entirely on their commitment to their ideals and what those ideals are. Survival may be part of that equation, and prioritizing survival may be done to allow those ideals to survive longer IF that is relevant to the substance of that ideal, but there are more than enough counterexamples to demonstrate that it does not always come first.

Women will eventually have to register for the draft if "true and pure equality" is to be realized in the U.S. military,

That's never going to happen when women have a different stranded test than the men. If the US wants and women want to be in the military than they should go be the same standards that the men have to.

I'd like to remind everyone that roughly over 60% of US soldiers in WWII were conscripted.

Tell me again how the draft was never needed for a just war.

Jesus you guys make it out as if women are going to flood the armed forces and become the majority sex within the army.

They should just get rid of the draft, I mean, the last time they used it it turned into a shit storm.

I'd like to remind everyone that roughly over 60% of US soldiers in WWII were conscripted.

Tell me again how the draft was never needed for a just war.

I'd like to remind you that WWII was three-quarters of a century ago. Wars and how we fight them are different now. Large-scale invasions aren't a thing anymore.

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.

I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.

I keep hearing this meme but I really want a demonstration of it.

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a262626.pdf
Innumerable evidence within the IDF and relevant studies suggest that a woman's presence has an adverse effect on unit cohesion and the capacity to carry out orders within a unit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/14/navy-secretary-threw-us-under-the-bus-say-marines-in-gender-integrated-infantry-unit/
Not to mention that women are twice as likely to sustain injury during combat situations and have been shown to be substantially less skilled in regards to shooting accuracy.

Sometimes it makes me wonder what you guys are prepared to sacrifice just for the sake of 'equality.'

Gave the first one a scan and it almost definitely only cited evidence where the women were unable to operate at expected levels, and used that difference in effectiveness as reason to why mutual bonds would be weakened in units. Max's point is that if you have a woman who meets the standards of men then there is no reason to disallow her. For fuck's sake, the mean accuracy or lifting capacity of women is lower than men doesn't matter for shit when the subject matter is allowing a woman who is at the men's mean to serve. No one is saying let a woman who can't drag a 240 pound person serve because mah feelings, they are saying if a woman is able to do that then there is no reason to disallow her. It doesn't matter how rare that event is, the person in question does not share the characteristics with other women that makes them detrimental, thus there is no reason to not take them.

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.

I keep hearing this meme but I really want a demonstration of it.

Check out some reports and studies of the IDF then.

Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on October 14, 2015, 06:34:50 AM

I'd like to remind everyone that roughly over 60% of US soldiers in WWII were conscripted.

Tell me again how the draft was never needed for a just war.

I'd like to remind you that WWII was three-quarters of a century ago. Wars and how we fight them are different now. Large-scale invasions aren't a thing anymore.

I'm still not wrong.

Quote from: eggsalad on October 14, 2015, 01:45:40 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 14, 2015, 01:44:29 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:18:38 PM

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.

I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.

We've been over this.

Social obligations demand men engage in self-sacrificial behavior to protect women, which can compromise not only the safety of other personnel, but also the success of the operation.

Social pressures also pressure men to save their friends, who they grow and develop with during their training, yet somehow that isn't a magically insane problem. Your hypothesis is flawed.

You aren't seriously equating the social dynamics between men and women to platonic same-sex friendship, are you?

If you seriously think that background social pressures of "women first" are more significant than the intense emotions surrounding brotherhood in arms then you are detached from reality.

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 01:27:45 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AM

Women should not be in infantry positions.

I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.

If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a262626.pdf
Innumerable evidence within the IDF and relevant studies suggest that a woman's presence has an adverse effect on unit cohesion and the capacity to carry out orders within a unit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/14/navy-secretary-threw-us-under-the-bus-say-marines-in-gender-integrated-infantry-unit/
Not to mention that women are twice as likely to sustain injury during combat situations and have been shown to be substantially less skilled in regards to shooting accuracy.

Sometimes it makes me wonder what you guys are prepared to sacrifice just for the sake of 'equality.'

Gave the first one a scan and it almost definitely only cited evidence where the women were unable to operate at expected levels, and used that difference in effectiveness as reason to why mutual bonds would be weakened in units. Max's point is that if you have a woman who meets the standards of men then there is no reason to disallow her. For fuck's sake, the mean accuracy or lifting capacity of women is lower than men doesn't matter for shit when the subject matter is allowing a woman who is at the men's mean to serve. No one is saying let a woman who can't drag a 240 pound person serve because mah feelings, they are saying if a woman is able to do that then there is no reason to disallow her. It doesn't matter how rare that event is, the person in question does not share the characteristics with other women that makes them detrimental, thus there is no reason to not take them.

It probably helps if you don't just 'scan' things.

The article clearly illustrates that a women's inherent physiological inferiority, even when relevant criterion have been met, have been shown to physically and psychologically diminish the organisational bonding and morale within a unit, and thus increase the susceptibility of unit breakdown.

It doesn't matter if she meets the grade. Even women who pass the relevant tests (which are usually lowered) have been shown to be less physically capable and more susceptible to injury than men. That's just biological fact.

Quote

It doesn't matter if she meets the grade. Even women who pass the relevant tests (which are usually lowered)

That means the problems lie with the tests allowing unfit candidates in.

Even fit female candidates have shown a propensity to be incapable of meeting the physically demanding aspects of infantry like men can.

Even if they ticked every conceivable box there's still biological aptitudes that we simply cannot get away from, such as female bone density that renders women more likely to sustain injury.