Question to those against raising the minimum wage (Or even those who are for it): What are the other options?

As Challenger pointed out, the job market in most countries, especially industrialized Western nations, are becoming overcrowded with people earning degrees and searching for higher employment. Those who are working at a place like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, or other retail environments are growingly finding themselves stuck there - they may get lucky and get some management position, but nothing with a stable enough income to actually contribute more to the overall economy.

First of all, over inflating tertiary education is never a good thing. If everyone and their grandma has a bachelor degree, what's the point in getting one? How are employers able to discern who is best for the job?

Secondly, you cannot manipulate one side of an equation and expect that the other side won't balance it out. That's why it's an "equation." Forcing higher wages without artificially controlling prices just means prices go up.  Buying power doesn't change.  The only time buying power improves is when demand for labor rises relative to supply.  That means a strong, vibrant economy.  When rich people get richer, the poor get less poor. I don't care what the "wealth disparity" is between the rich and poor. Making rich people less rich doesn't help me at all. No poor person ever signed one of my paychecks.

Quote from: A E S T H E T I C S on September 27, 2015, 01:59:35 PM

Quote from: challengerX on September 27, 2015, 01:58:51 PM

Quote from: A E S T H E T I C S on September 27, 2015, 01:11:32 PM

First off, I never denied there was a contemporary social mobility issue.

Second, you really think hiking the minimum wage is a viable solution? Where is the reason, where is the evidence? Demonstrate to us why increasing the MW works, don't just whine about the oh-so-poor, oppressed working class. Time and time again astronomically high MW laws have exemplified their ineffectiveness in alleviating poverty, and has instead, created a disemployment due to its damaging effects on small businesses struggling to maintain costs just so they can stay afloat.

It's all very nice championing this valiant cause for the poor, but when push comes to shove, implementing actual policies to combat the issue is a very different story. Unless you've got this wonderful magical solution to the problem at hand that doesn't involve bullying businesses into inflating their labour costs, I really don't know what you can bring to the table besides muh poor people need to be paid more.

"stop bullying the poor business owners"

"muh small businesses"

Your shilling is legendary.

So you don't have an argument backed by empirical evidence then, gotcha.

This isn't a Harvard debate, it's a forum. Your constant appeal to macroeconomics and raw data statistics has absolutely NOTHING to do with a high cost of living and extremely shitty pay. Frankly, people earning minimum wage shouldn't be taxed at all.

Please, explain to me how the status quo is acceptable.

"evidence doesn't work on a forum lol i'm right once again"

Is this what constitutes a rational argument for you?

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21591593-moderate-minimum-wages-do-more-good-harm-they-should-be-set-technocrats-not
Before I get more narratives flung at me about how much the poor are constantly shafted by the uber wealthy, I'd like to direct you all to an article that dispels the current myths surrounding minimum wage and poverty.

FACT: High minimum wages in rigid labour markets categorically damages employment. France has the rich world’s highest wage floor, which subsequently explains the colossally high unemployment rate for young people seeking to enter the world of work.

FACT: Artificially raising the minimum wage curtails demand for labour, impacting the people that it allegedly attempts to help.

It's fairly evident that the minimum wage itself isn't necessarily a particularly pernicious thing, it's arbitrarily raising it in a haphazard attempt to solve the issue of poverty which is the problem. It's a self inflicted issue, and simply enforcing businesses to shovel out more money for labour is precisely why the labour market is finding it increasingly difficult to land stable employment.

Quote from: A E S T H E T I C S on September 27, 2015, 12:47:44 PM

I guess the appeal to emotions argument was bound to occur at some point ITT.

Funnily enough, emotions matter. Workers aren't slaves. They're not robots. They're people with families and lives, pride and dreams. You don't treat people like a statistic as if their well being doesn't matter.

People working minimum wage jobs are overworked and underpaid. They're treated like garbage, and their hard work is very, very rarely appreciated. They work a shit ton of hours a week and can barely afford rent. Decent, hard working people. And how are they treated when they want a little more money for their hard work? Like they're greedy scum. When the REAL greedy scum are the ones making hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars and on top of it getting bonuses, are treated as gods.

Fact is you'd rather look after the interests of the ones screwing you than help your brothers live better. Raising the minimum wage needs to come with checks to the welfare system so people don't exploit shit. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't earn more money.

I mean, people like you are the type to say "don't live in such an expensive city". Rent for a place in Crenshaw boulevard (a fucking shithole) was $1,000. I saw that recently on the Internet. This is a place where you hear gun shots every night. How is somebody from the ghetto supposed to save money and go to another city or even state? Why should he? It's the same for middle class people. Why should they leave behind everything they know and leave because it's too expensive?

You people have no regard for anybody, come up with ridiculous "solutions" that show just how ignorant and detached you are, and you shill for the people fucking everything up.

First off, I never denied there was a contemporary social mobility issue.

Second, you really think hiking the minimum wage is a viable solution? Where is the reason, where is the evidence? Demonstrate to us why increasing the MW works, don't just whine about the oh-so-poor, oppressed working class. Time and time again astronomically high MW laws have exemplified their ineffectiveness in alleviating poverty, and has instead, created a disemployment due to its damaging effects on small businesses struggling to maintain costs just so they can stay afloat.

It's all very nice championing this valiant cause for the poor, but when push comes to shove, implementing actual policies to combat the issue is a very different story. Unless you've got this wonderful magical solution to the problem at hand that doesn't involve bullying businesses into inflating their labour costs, I really don't know what you can bring to the table besides muh poor people need to be paid more.

I honestly think people should be taking more individual responsibility instead of automatically expecting the state to intervene.

Don't want to put in the effort for an affluent lifestyle and just want to live a moderately comfortable existence? That's fine. Just don't expect an exuberant standard of living for yourself, and if it wasn't blindingly obvious for anyone else, don't have children if you don't think you can adequately support them.

sleep tight doggo

>Sam Smith

Is it that much to ask for a completed game nowadays

Quote from: A E S T H E T I C S on September 24, 2015, 07:58:50 PM

He originally wanted Superman for his plot device DNA or something IIRC.

I think he just did it for convenience because Earth happened to be the closest planet and he doesn't really give two shits about humanity.

But he could have just been like " yo dawg, I want to restart my extinct race or whatever, can you point me in the direction of the closest earth like planet?". We could have given him a list of 603 possible candidates, he wouldn't have had to fight super dude, and he could have gotten jiggy with whatever he needed to to bring his people back.

Again, convenience.

Why travel millions upon millions of miles again to find a suitable planet just because a bunch of lesser beings inhabit the one he has found?

Plus the very concept that Superman exists (a natural birth) is heretical according to Kryptonian customs, so he wasn't just trying to kill him for the fuck of it.

He originally wanted Superman for his plot device DNA or something IIRC.

I think he just did it for convenience because Earth happened to be the closest planet and he doesn't really give two shits about humanity.

P O O  I N  T H E  L O O
O
O

I
N

T
H
E

L
O
O

No we don't.

I'd actually argue it's more of a moral obligation to euthanize them.

I'm not even sure half of them are even aware they're alive any way.

The notion that the US and her allies need to spread democracy and freedom is ridiculous.

No, that's a problem for individual sovereign nations to solve internally. I don't think anyone here genuinely thinks that enforcing morality via imperialism is a good thing.

It is, however, our responsibility as a collective of developed countries with objectively superior values to keep less developed countries from rocking the boat.

He's not wrong, instead of constantly bombing each other into oblivion why not hold peaceful talks? How is there anything wrong with that?

Peaceful talks with a terrorist organisation that has nothing to do with the sovereignty of any of the countries involved? How is that in anyway productive?

Always love hearing people bitch about solutions then offer no viable alternatives.

Oh yeah, I'm sure diplomatic relations with a psychopathic warlord to politely ask him to stop being a psychopathic warlord is going to work wonders. Whatever keeps the fantasy afloat.