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Messages - Verbatim
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45181
« on: December 30, 2014, 10:05:47 PM »
They're also not sentient.
How do you know they aren't sentient?
You're a fucking retard.
Someone doesn't know when someone's being facetious.
Well, I'm sorry. But I've dealt with so many people (mostly from my school) who honestly believe that plants have feelings, that I get a little jumpy when people insinuate it.
45182
« on: December 30, 2014, 10:03:28 PM »
Does it count if your expectations were exceeded only in that it was far WORSE than you had planned? Reverse exceeded? Is there a word for that?
45183
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:47:42 PM »
Well, at least you aren't a lying bastard that pretends that the food is just as good as the alternative's alternative. Yeah. My sister's like that. She says I'm the pussiest vegan she's ever known. But we're talking about a guy who went near-cold turkey (pun semi-intended).
45184
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:45:20 PM »
*insert that stephen fry quote here*
45185
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:41:51 PM »
Well then, I commend your dedication. It doesn't seem to be a cheap diet choice, nor entirely possible for those who may be dependent on others for food. It actually makes it easier on my parents, because before, they had to buy regular food for the family, and vegan stuff for my sister. Now we just get vegan stuff. There's plenty of cheap stuff--none of it's good, but... you know. I don't eat food to enjoy it anymore.
45186
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:39:45 PM »
By creating this thread, you're basically fulfilling the stereotype that vegans are incapable of keeping the fact that they are vegans to themselves. ...who cares? lol
45187
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:38:30 PM »
I'm saying if you're going to eat plants, you might as well have some baby on the side. durrr
45188
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:38:07 PM »
Aren't you a little... um...
well...
too middle class youth to properly commit to veganism? My sister, who is three years younger than I am, has been a vegan for over a year now. I can do it, too. It's just... miserable.
45189
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:37:05 PM »
45190
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:36:28 PM »
They're also not sentient. neither are babies
Your point?
45191
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:31:38 PM »
They're also not sentient.
45192
« on: December 30, 2014, 09:27:51 PM »
Even more morally superior to vegetarians. Verbatim Sometimes I cry myself to sleep.
45193
« on: December 30, 2014, 08:51:01 PM »
It's impossible to defend outside of circular arguments that end in "no, it just is." Well, I mean, I'm not really sure what else it's supposed to say, but just every single day, I'm reading about some shit tragedy that happened overseas, or about the last meth bust that occurred in my area. Entire countries--entire continents, damn near--living in absolute squalor. And then I look at all the so-called "good" on Earth, as well. What? iPhones? Robert Pattinson's hair? The $750 million dollar Hobbit films? That's worth the suffering of millions? I don't think it takes a mathematician to see the imbalance there.
45194
« on: December 30, 2014, 08:42:16 PM »
All of that seems rather obvious, You'd be surprised. Some of the most intelligent people I know trip over some of this stuff.
45195
« on: December 30, 2014, 08:34:57 PM »
I'm going to clear up some misconceptions about the philosophy on the next page. Doesn't really belong in the OP, but I don't want it to be at the bottom of page 1, either...
By all means, I'd like to see it.
done i doubt they'll be relevant to you in particular, but you know, whatever
45196
« on: December 30, 2014, 08:15:46 PM »
So, to clear up a few misconceptions about the philosophy...
1. Anti-natalism does not condone the infanticide
no fucking shit
even taking a cursory glance at what the philosophy is, i don't understand how anyone could possibly glean that from any description. mostly, i think people are just trying to troll me when they say this shit, but regardless, i'm not going to let them slander my views so that some onlooker thinks i'm the bad guy because someone shouted "YOU WANT TO KILL BABIES! EVEN THOUGH ALL YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO BE BORN IN THE FIRST PLACE!"
2. Anti-natalism does not condone murder at all
Duh. Same shit.
3. Celibacy is not required
...I don't even know how people get this idea. Again, all anti-natalists are saying is "don't have kids". Simple as that. You can certainly have sex--just be responsible. Use protection. In the event of an unwanted pregnancy, abort it. If you're against abortion, well, good fucking luck. Celibacy helps, but if you just don't think life is cool enough without the sex thing, then whatever. Just be careful and take every precaution you can if you're gonna have sex at all. Because if you don't, I'm going to call you a fucking moron. The worst of all fates. Oh, and you'll have created another need machine. That's probably worse. Yeah.
4. Anti-natalists do not condemn parents
We just think they're irresponsible, imposing idiots with no foresight (the likes of which make up the composition of humanity anyway). We don't hate you, and you're still welcome to be an anti-natalist--there are anti-natalist parents in existence. As long as you concede that what you did was a major risk that nothing could have prepared you for, and you are doing everything in your power to make your child as happy and sated as possible (and I mean HAPPY), there's not much harm done. Yes, every once in awhile, the lottery makes a millionaire. But that doesn't make playing the lottery intelligent.
That's all I can think of for now, but there's plenty more that'll surely come to mind...
45197
« on: December 30, 2014, 08:15:14 PM »
Some say that rape is an act of dominance, not sexual frustration. I say: "Porque no los dos?" *por que (porque means "because") but yeah, it's definitely both
45198
« on: December 30, 2014, 07:59:11 PM »
I'm going to clear up some misconceptions about the philosophy on the next page. Doesn't really belong in the OP, but I don't want it to be at the bottom of page 1, either...
45199
« on: December 30, 2014, 07:41:58 PM »
"Innovation" and "FPS games" go together like toothpaste and orange juice.
45200
« on: December 30, 2014, 07:31:13 PM »
celebrity wants attention
what's new
45201
« on: December 30, 2014, 07:21:40 PM »
Benatar says reproduction is bad because Suffering > Goodness, but that suicide isn't recommended because the goodness may be worth continuing living. This doesn't make sense; either it may be possible for the goodness of life to outweigh the suffering and make life worth living, or live is just so full of suffering that it can't possibly worth living and therefore procreation is evil. If anything, Benetar's arguments only support the acceptance of suicide in society as a way to end suffering in a simple, painless, maybe even enjoyable way (like in Soylent Green, for example. Well, Benatar is not the be all, end all for the philosophy. The asymmetry bit is important, but yes, the notion that he doesn't condone suicide because "life might be worth it" isn't really good enough for me, either. That's sort of something every anti-natalist has to come up with himself. Personally, I haven't ended my life because that doesn't solve the problem. No slave who killed himself ended slavery. I'm here because there are things that I believe in that I'd like to advocate--from anti-natalism, to... simple "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And there are people who don't even have that down yet. So, yeah, I'm certainly not Benatar's yes-man and I can certainly point out when my own side is making poor arguments or otherwise stating things... shittily.
45202
« on: December 30, 2014, 07:12:02 PM »
Also, Verbatim, if you think it's preferable to just not act without some sort of prior consent as to avoid the possibility of coercion altogether, would you neglect to save an unconscious person on the street or otherwise scorn those who do? Well, no, I wouldn't neglect to save him, nor would I scorn anyone who would as well. Bringing people into existence is a mistake--but if you're going to do it, it would be prudent not to waste the life needlessly--to protect it. If he's unconscious out on the street, his death isn't going to be a swift one. He might wake up briefly, then suffer and die as some asshole runs him over, or some thug decides to take advantage of him in some way. Basically, we aren't responsible for the unborn until they are born.
45203
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:55:05 PM »
I've always thought the consent argument was really silly, and Benatar's basic definitions of what is good and bad is flimsy and circular. Absence of bad is good regardless of whether an object of the good exist, but absence of good is bad only if there is an object for that badness, but there's no quantifiable way to measure these, and it's profoundly evident that the perceived goodness of existence is greater than the badness in the fact that only .1% of the population chooses to opt out of life via suicide. What are you having trouble measuring? As for the suicide bit, I don't really find that very telling--I attribute that to human instinct. We, just inherently due to the fact that we are indeed complex replicating molecules, we have a strong instinct not to kill other people or ourselves. I think it has less to do with the fact that people are too happy to end their own lives, and more due to the fact that most people are too afraid to do so, by pure instinct. Because they don't know what's going to happen, and they don't know if they'll succeed--and they know that if they don't succeed, they're going to be in a world of shit. Additionally, most people don't have the resources or know-how to kill themselves anyway. If we had an off-button, I'd be willing to bet that there'd be a lot less people. Like... half, if that. But that's just conjecture... Benatar's argument against suicide is equally flimsy. If the cumulative badness of existence outweighs the good, then there's no way you can argue that the bad of continuing existence doesn't outweigh the good, too. Umm... Explain.
45204
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:43:11 PM »
In saying that, I recognised (and I'm sure you did too) long ago that you and I are coming from two fundamentally different perspectives. I mean, you don't get much further apart than the philosophy's of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. None of my arguments about the value of suffering will carry any weight, because you don't believe it needs to operate in a position of utility or disutility at all - it could just not exist, given a lack of sentient beings. I, on the other hand, embrace ideas like the Apollonian and Dionysian dichotomy, amor fati and the Will to Power.
You see me as pointless, and I see you as Pyrrhonism--the ultimate scepticism.
Indeed. I love talking to people who know their shit.
45205
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:26:33 PM »
Well, first and foremost I feel the need to point out that we're not overpopulated by any stretch of the imagination. One sentient organism with the capacity to feel pain and suffering. That's all you need, in my eyes. But that's sort of irrelevant, because at this point, it's sort of a lost cause to worry about overpopulation. Secondly, it seems that if you ground your argument in a lack of consent then you always and everywhere have to oppose coercion of any sort. Not exactly a valid comparison, considering that babies are not "coerced" into being born--it's a direct imposition; no conversation takes place whatsoever. My whole contention is... don't have kids, and you won't even have to worry about being coerced into doing anything during your life, as it were. Thirdly, why the assumption that suffering is axiomatically bad? Well, you're not supposed to question axioms  Suffering is bad because suffering isn't good. I mean... I don't really know how else to say it. I'd have to ask you, do you not consider suffering to be axiomatically bad? Would you not personally rather live in a world with no suffering? If not, why?
45206
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:15:56 PM »
I mean people who think their outlook on life is more correct than others, have no right to go around telling people that their opinions are wrong, but whatever floats your boat, you live life as you feel like it. If I thought that my opinion was more correct than someone else's, I wouldn't have made this thread. I'm here to have the discussion--not to force my beliefs down people's throats. I might come off like that, because I'm vulgar, but what I really care about is the conversation. As someone with such an extreme belief as I do, I have to spread it around, or it will never see the light of day. That's sort of my mission. You can act like I'm doing something else with my time, but no, I'm really not as petty as you think I am.
45207
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
I kind of have the same view, but not nearly as extreme as you do. Most of the time I even think about this sort of stuff is when I see the images of Africans with those shrunken, skeletal bodies (you know the ones I'm talking about) and then you see the kids with ribs showing and skin stretched across their bones.
And I think to myself: "Why the fuck would you want to add an extra burden on you and the environment by having a kid in this god-forsaken place?"
And also people living in trailer parks and ghetto areas. They should probably think about themselves before bringing a kid into the world. Yeah, and strangely enough, people always seem to forget about all that stuff when I try to broach this topic. They don't realize that the most prolific countries in the world in terms of childbirth are also the scummiest, the poorest, and the least educated. I don't know why it's so hard for people to account for their suffering.
45208
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:08:56 PM »
That's what philosophy is. It's a description of reality. You can either have an accurate description of reality, or an inaccurate description of reality. That's what it's all about. If it's too much thinking for you, then please, I could wholly do without your responses.
And I'm not faulting you, necessarily--this is heavy shit, and I understand that. But I mean, to say that you can't take me seriously? Well, go away, then! Bye bye!
45209
« on: December 30, 2014, 05:59:45 PM »
never met him
45210
« on: December 30, 2014, 05:59:10 PM »
Oh, I was dead fucking serious, though. Please remain on-topic, Mr. Moderator.
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