Quote from: Verbatim on May 01, 2017, 11:02:52 PM

there are many forms of evil, i don't like throwing around the word in a general sense

Would you say it's a difficult word to pin on an individual that has done significant good for their country?

not in jackson's case

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 11:02:57 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 01, 2017, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:43:45 PM

im an actual historian so i guarantee i know more about this shit than you do lol

so is everybody else on this fucking forum

aka no you're not

my degree is in history. lol.

oh so that's all there is to it huh

you walk around acting like you're hot shit for years cuz your degree path is english or lit or w/e and i cant say im a historian after studying history exclusively in college for the last 5 years? lol.

if i werent drunk id probably be pissed at yall's bullshit but it is what it is

Would you call the majority of the country at that time evil? He was their hero and still was long after his death.

the ability to look at a dark-skinned man and say "that is an object," or "that is a savage," or "that is my property"--is absolutely unconscionable to me

at no point in my life have i ever thought of somebody as lesser than me because of their culture or skin color

so while "evil" might not be the most fair word to use, it is imperceptible to me how anybody could possibly rationalize slavery or genocide in any way whatsoever

i don't see what the time period has to do with it

it's a loaded question

you walk around acting like you're hot shit for years cuz your degree path is english or lit or w/e and i cant say im a historian after studying history exclusively in college for the last 5 years? lol.

i would've responded to this post but i don't speak to drunk people

This is what I was talking about half a year ago over perceived tone on the internet. I'm in a really good mood tonight, however a thread that was supposed to be about Trump being a bumbling idiot about facts is now about perception of good and evil. Out of all the history professors I've had, and all the historians that have chimed in on Jackson, including the interviewer of Trump tonight, they have steered clear of using the term "evil". Because he's not so far on the edge as Hitler. No one denies his serious wrongdoings, but controversial is a more appropriate term.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 11:17:55 PM

dont have the degree yet. im taking things kinda slow because of extreme depression + anxiety ruining my life. but im a senior. dunno why youre so adamant about this shit man. i know we've had disagreements in the past but you're just being petty rn

ive had history professors who would gladly join me in labeling jackson as evil. you can disagree all you want, i cant control your life, but attacking my credentials & all the hard work ive put in to understand something i care deeply about is fucked up. i know aint nobody here actually likes me but damn.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 11:13:29 PM

you walk around acting like you're hot shit for years cuz your degree path is english or lit or w/e and i cant say im a historian after studying history exclusively in college for the last 5 years? lol.

i would've responded to this post but i don't speak to drunk people

nah you know what youre doing is hypocritical as fuck you just dont give a shit and youre using your hate for drug use as a cover.

I asked for validation. It's easy to just say you're a professional at X on the internet without needing to back it up. That's why I would never call myself a historian and call myself an armchair one because it's just a hobby for me.

Nor would I get upset at people asking me for validation when I say I know about the film-making process. After all it's what I'm going back to school for and took some classes on art though film when I first went. You say nobody really likes you, I doubt that but maybe if you weren't so aggressive right out of the gate, I have stated many times there's only one user on here I seriously don't like and it's not you, but that doesn't mean certain users aren't difficult from time to time. Even some of my favorite users on here royally piss me off a good amount of the time they're online.

And furthermore, this is about TRUMP.

ive had history professors who would gladly join me in labeling jackson as evil. you can disagree all you want, i cant control your life, but attacking my credentials & all the hard work ive put in to understand something i care deeply about is fucked up. i know aint nobody here actually likes me but damn.

Quote from: Verbatim on May 01, 2017, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:43:45 PM

im an actual historian so i guarantee i know more about this shit than you do lol

so is everybody else on this fucking forum

aka no you're not

my degree is in history. lol.

I get where you're coming from, but a degree isn't really what it takes to hold a title in something. I majored in engineering, but I'm not an engineer, for example. Everyone's subject to their own biases, and I'd strongly doubt that any curriculum is teaching about the evil of Andrew Jackson. With your education though, I would ask if you genuinely believe his opponent (or any other politician) would have done anything radically different. "A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 11:02:57 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 01, 2017, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on May 01, 2017, 10:43:45 PM

im an actual historian so i guarantee i know more about this shit than you do lol

so is everybody else on this fucking forum

aka no you're not

my degree is in history. lol.

I get where you're coming from, but a degree isn't really what it takes to hold a title in something. I majored in engineering, but I'm not an engineer, for example. Everyone's subject to their own biases, and I'd strongly doubt that any curriculum is teaching about the evil of Andrew Jackson. With your education though, I would ask if you genuinely believe his opponent (or any other politician) would have done anything radically different. "A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

you may not work in engineering or personally consider yourself to be an engineer but the years of study you underwent for that degree definitely count for something. even if you didnt go as far as others, you still formally pursued the discipline. id consider you to be an engineer based on the knowledge you presumably accrued, and would likely defer to your judgment regarding an engineering-related subject if there werent any others present with more credentials in the discipline. of course, there is more subjective analysis involved in the study of history than in a given STEM field, but you get the idea.

and im not overly fond of historical hypotheticals so ill pass on that question.

"A product of the times" is a lazy excuse for a lot of things, and I would agree that genocide of First Nations tribes was a literal act of evil, but to shoulder it on one guy and use that to discredit everything else he did is a bit much.

i think the trail of tears was a bit much

"He was very angry at what he saw."

This seems to contradict that though. Sounding like what he meant by "If he was a little later" to be taken as "If he was President a little later" and not necessarily alive a little later.

I can't comment on the Jackson/Civil War topic itself because I know nothing about it, but c'mon now. Trump's a moron, but we don't need to be nitpicking at everything just to further solidify what we already know.