Slippery slope is not a fallacy

 
Verbatim
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it was a little earlier than that

"a life is a life" -- what kind of useless rhetoric is that


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Oh I guarantee if they did what I say here violent crime would drop. It is my belief that if you take a life, yours no longer matters. A life for a life. I think I read there are 180,000 people in US prisons for murder. That's a whole lot, but you know what? I would have absolutely no problem if everyone of them was executed tomorrow. Killing nearly 200,000 people sounds awful. But it's retribution for all the lives they took.
It all sounds good and fine until you remember that wrongful arrest and conviction is a thing that can very well happen to you and a National Academy of Sciences study shows us that one out of every 25 people executed by the state were later, posthumously, found innocent and wrongfully sentenced.


Gatortag | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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Oh I guarantee if they did what I say here violent crime would drop. It is my belief that if you take a life, yours no longer matters. A life for a life. I think I read there are 180,000 people in US prisons for murder. That's a whole lot, but you know what? I would have absolutely no problem if everyone of them was executed tomorrow. Killing nearly 200,000 people sounds awful. But it's retribution for all the lives they took.
It all sounds good and fine until you remember that wrongful arrest and conviction is a thing that can very well happen to you and a National Academy of Sciences study shows us that one out of every 25 people executed by the state were later, posthumously, found innocent and wrongfully sentenced.
I read that a lot of people confess to being guilty to crimes they are not guilty of. Forgot why they do that though. That could have something to do with it.

And I know it's extreme guys. But it's simple. In my mind if you kill someone, you don't deserve to live anymore and should be killed yourself.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I read that a lot of people confess to being guilty to crimes they are not guilty of. Forgot why they do that though. That could have something to do with it.

Our legal system is entirely dependent on plea bargains; if every criminal went to trial, the legal costs would bankrupt the system and overburden the already strained incarceration system. Many people take pleas when faced with a crime they didn't commit because they're told by public defenders or police that they will almost certainly be found guilty of the original crime, and it makes sense to just take the lesser punishment. Very disturbingly, this is the exact same method used in interrogations and torture; you're promised that the pain will stop if you give up a little bit of information.

Not only is a 4% rate of false convictions leading to executions barbaric, it is compounded significantly under your ideal of simply executing murderers. Just food for thought.


 
challengerX
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
Oh I guarantee if they did what I say here violent crime would drop. It is my belief that if you take a life, yours no longer matters. A life for a life. I think I read there are 180,000 people in US prisons for murder. That's a whole lot, but you know what? I would have absolutely no problem if everyone of them was executed tomorrow. Killing nearly 200,000 people sounds awful. But it's retribution for all the lives they took.
It all sounds good and fine until you remember that wrongful arrest and conviction is a thing that can very well happen to you and a National Academy of Sciences study shows us that one out of every 25 people executed by the state were later, posthumously, found innocent and wrongfully sentenced.
I read that a lot of people confess to being guilty to crimes they are not guilty of. Forgot why they do that though. That could have something to do with it.

And I know it's extreme guys. But it's simple. In my mind if you kill someone, you don't deserve to live anymore and should be killed yourself.
Sure about that? Do you think soldiers should be executed?

There are plenty of times where people take a life, and even though they're morally in the right they still have to serve a prison sentence. You have a very naive view of this.

Also people don't have to necessarily admit to shit they didn't do, the issue is they're found guilty when they're innocent. There's a lot of people that were executed that were innocent.


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You know what I mean. Of course soldiers wouldn't be included. If someone is trying to break into your house and points a gun at you and you kill them, they shouldn't be included either. Manslaughter too. Killing someone in a wreck is not in your control. I'm talking about plain evil people. People who kill for joy, or to steal, and it's definitively proven they did do it.
Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:59:32 PM by Gatortag


 
Alternative Facts
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I'm talking about plain evil people. People who kill for joy, or to steal, and it's definitively proven they did do it.

Really?

Because you suggested that everyone accused of murder should be executed tomorrow, even with a risk of false convictions.

Now we've gone to "Definitive proof they did it"



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I'm talking about plain evil people. People who kill for joy, or to steal, and it's definitively proven they did do it.

Really?

Because you suggested that everyone accused of murder should be executed tomorrow, even with a risk of false convictions.

Now we've gone to "Definitive proof they did it"
I did say that. But do not take things so literally. It would be common sense to go about it in a way that only includes those where it is absolutely proven. Heck, I'm sure just re-examining a lot of cases would help get rid of some of the innocent people. No telling how much of it was from racism and things like that.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I'm talking about plain evil people. People who kill for joy, or to steal, and it's definitively proven they did do it.

Really?

Because you suggested that everyone accused of murder should be executed tomorrow, even with a risk of false convictions.

Now we've gone to "Definitive proof they did it"
I did say that. But do not take things so literally. It would be common sense to go about it in a way that only includes those where it is absolutely proven. Heck, I'm sure just re-examining a lot of cases would help get rid of some of the innocent people. No telling how much of it was from racism and things like that.

I don't think any of us mean to gang up on you, but you can't make a very straightforward statement like that and then accuse us of being too literal. I think we all just want you to recognize that there's nuance to seemingly common sense ideas.


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
You know what I mean. Of course soldiers wouldn't be included. If someone is trying to break into your house and points a gun at you and you kill them, they shouldn't be included either. Manslaughter too. Killing someone in a wreck is not in your control. I'm talking about plain evil people. People who kill for joy, or to steal, and it's definitively proven they did do it.
I can agree with that.

I don't understand why we even need firing squads. Shit I'll bring my own gun and ammo, let me at em.


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‘The most inoffensive user on this website’ - Verbatim
A lot of the "fallacies" I see people call out on the internet are taught as legitimate persuasive techniques in debating and essay writing. Doesn't make sense.


 
Verbatim
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A lot of the "fallacies" I see people call out on the internet are taught as legitimate persuasive techniques in debating and essay writing. Doesn't make sense.
Which ones, and how doesn't it make sense?


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Which ones, and how doesn't it make sense?
There are others I can't remember, but the first one I ran into is the Appeal to emotion Fallacy. Upon closer inspection, it seems different to the use of emotional appeals in debating.

What doesn't make sense to me is why would one be taught to use such persuasive techniques if they're invalid and easily challenged? Or are the debating techniques designed to augment statistics, and the fallacies forming the base of the argument itself?


 
Verbatim
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Which ones, and how doesn't it make sense?
There are others I can't remember, but the first one I ran into is the Appeal to emotion Fallacy. Upon closer inspection, it seems different to the use of emotional appeals in debating.

What doesn't make sense to me is why would one be taught to use such persuasive techniques if they're invalid and easily challenged? Or are the debating techniques designed to augment statistics, and the fallacies forming the base of the argument itself?
Ah, yeah, Door made a thread with a similar concern a few months ago. You're speaking of the use of pathos in combination with logos and ethos in persuasive rhetoric, yes?

People like Turkey will contest this, because they think they know more about the subject than they do, but the use of pathos (emotional appeals) is indeed a fallacious form of persuasion and should generally be eschewed in favor of logos and ethos. The reason it's taught is because it's pervasively useful. It's extraordinarily easy to manipulate--and that's what it is; manipulation--people's emotions, and it's effective, but it's still fallacious. Especially if it's all you rely on.

If I want to convince you to become a vegan, I could just flash a bunch of pictures of factory farms and slaughterhouses in your face--textbook pathos--but that's not very effective. It's fallacious, in fact, because a picture of a pig getting slaughtered does not prove anything. It doesn't prove, neither from a logical nor ethical standpoint, that it's wrong for pigs to get slaughtered. I'm just trying to force a gut reaction out of you. It's a cheap, lowbrow way to argue. What I should do is discuss through logic why such a thing is wrong from an ethical standpoint.

You're taught to argue from all three modes of persuasion, and that one or two alone isn't enough for a strong argument, but in reality, the only reason pathos works so well is because we, as emotional beings, have such a hard time setting their emotions aside for the sake of debate. In a better world, we'd be able to. Logos & ethos would be enough to persuade anyone of anything.


 
Verbatim
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In fairness, as fallacious as they are and always will be, emotional appeals can be there to provide something tactile for your opposition; a way to help them into your shoes; a vessel through which they can see the issue for how you see it, and respond accordingly. Maybe you're the type of person who becomes a vegan after being shown a dead pig--I don't know.

I'd argue that people who consider themselves intelligent or reasonable, though, do not need that little push--and the unfettered use of such tactics speaks volumes of not only your argumentative capabilities, but also of your integrity.
Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 11:08:50 PM by Verbatim


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Huh, TIL. I'd never referred to it as Pathos/Ethos/Logos back at school.

I agree Pathos is a bit of an insult to the recipient's intelligence, but I've tried a lot of "logic only" arguments in your typical facebook shitstorm and really it never pans out. Once they run out of rebuttals they just get angry and curse you out. People have weird paths of reasoning.


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Dank memes coming through.
This thread is some pure cancer right here I swear.


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This thread is some pure cancer right here I swear.
And what's your opinion on the matter?


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May not be human yet but that shouldn't matter. The process of life already started and that makes it a living thing. It's already there. While something is considered alive you do your best to keep it that way unless it's in a state that requires you to put it out of misery.

We wouldn't need 90% of abortions if people weren't so loose with their legs or took some actual precautions during sex and this far liberal bullshit is backfiring because apparently to them living in a free and open society includes not owing up to your mistakes, using get out of jail free cards, and repeating the same mistake because you learned absolutely nothing the first time because nobody slapped you upside the head and told you like it was for fear upsetting the crowd that can't handle reality.

Fuck am I ever tired of this shit.


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Do you even know what a "fallacy" means?

Fallacies don't mean that the entire rest of the argument is now null, it just means that a certain part has faulty reasoning or fails to address the actual problem.

Slippery slope is a logical fallacy. People aren't marrying cows now that gay people can legally get married.


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May not be human yet but that shouldn't matter. The process of life already started and that makes it a living thing. It's already there. While something is considered alive you do your best to keep it that way unless it's in a state that requires you to put it out of misery.

We wouldn't need 90% of abortions if people weren't so loose with their legs or took some actual precautions during sex and this far liberal bullshit is backfiring because apparently to them living in a free and open society includes not owing up to your mistakes, using get out of jail free cards, and repeating the same mistake because you learned absolutely nothing the first time because nobody slapped you upside the head and told you like it was for fear upsetting the crowd that can't handle reality.

Fuck am I ever tired of this shit.
wew lad


Sαndtrap | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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May not be human yet but that shouldn't matter. The process of life already started and that makes it a living thing. It's already there. While something is considered alive you do your best to keep it that way unless it's in a state that requires you to put it out of misery.

We wouldn't need 90% of abortions if people weren't so loose with their legs or took some actual precautions during sex and this far liberal bullshit is backfiring because apparently to them living in a free and open society includes not owing up to your mistakes, using get out of jail free cards, and repeating the same mistake because you learned absolutely nothing the first time because nobody slapped you upside the head and told you like it was for fear upsetting the crowd that can't handle reality.

Fuck am I ever tired of this shit.
wew lad

smug anime face


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It's backfiring so much that people are having less abortions than ever

Fucking libbies reee!


 
Verbatim
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May not be human yet but that shouldn't matter. The process of life already started and that makes it a living thing. It's already there. While something is considered alive you do your best to keep it that way unless it's in a state that requires you to put it out of misery.

We wouldn't need 90% of abortions if people weren't so loose with their legs or took some actual precautions during sex and this far liberal bullshit is backfiring because apparently to them living in a free and open society includes not owing up to your mistakes, using get out of jail free cards, and repeating the same mistake because you learned absolutely nothing the first time because nobody slapped you upside the head and told you like it was for fear upsetting the crowd that can't handle reality.

Fuck am I ever tired of this shit.
i hope you never use your backspace key

YOU NEED TO OWE UP TO YOUR MISTAKES


 
Verbatim
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and yes, abortion is so morally insignificant, it could be compared to hitting your backspace key


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May not be human yet but that shouldn't matter. The process of life already started and that makes it a living thing. It's already there. While something is considered alive you do your best to keep it that way unless it's in a state that requires you to put it out of misery.

We wouldn't need 90% of abortions if people weren't so loose with their legs or took some actual precautions during sex and this far liberal bullshit is backfiring because apparently to them living in a free and open society includes not owing up to your mistakes, using get out of jail free cards, and repeating the same mistake because you learned absolutely nothing the first time because nobody slapped you upside the head and told you like it was for fear upsetting the crowd that can't handle reality.

Fuck am I ever tired of this shit.
i hope you never use your backspace key

YOU NEED TO OWE UP TO YOUR MISTAKES

GOD WILL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT

Spoiler
It's a complex multi faceted issue and that pissy little paragraph of mine could never cover even a quarter of all the sides. I'm just tired of seeing this shit swirl endlessly wherever I turn. Politics was never my thing. Normally I could go live in the bleakest corner of nowhere and enjoy my silence but that's not the case anymore.

Spoiler
Lefty is a slow typer so I don"t often have to backspace unless he gets too uppity. SUCK ON MY CAREFULLY CRAFTED WORDS BITCH.