Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:35:38 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".Again, America was already discovered by the people here. Indigenous People Day celebrates the ones who actually did it first...and that's not the point of the holiday. Discovery by Western civilization. Columbus was a terrible man, but his discovery voyage is one of the two most important events of the era, and the most important for the state of the Americas themselves today. History would have played out much differently if it weren't for Columbus, and that's why it's celebrated: he's fundamentally the reason why we are here right now.
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".Again, America was already discovered by the people here. Indigenous People Day celebrates the ones who actually did it first
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".
Quote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.
Personally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.Discuss
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:38:27 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:35:38 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".Again, America was already discovered by the people here. Indigenous People Day celebrates the ones who actually did it first...and that's not the point of the holiday. Discovery by Western civilization. Columbus was a terrible man, but his discovery voyage is one of the two most important events of the era, and the most important for the state of the Americas themselves today. History would have played out much differently if it weren't for Columbus, and that's why it's celebrated: he's fundamentally the reason why we are here right now.Why is Europe so special that it holds primacy over everyone else?
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:44:11 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:38:27 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:35:38 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".Again, America was already discovered by the people here. Indigenous People Day celebrates the ones who actually did it first...and that's not the point of the holiday. Discovery by Western civilization. Columbus was a terrible man, but his discovery voyage is one of the two most important events of the era, and the most important for the state of the Americas themselves today. History would have played out much differently if it weren't for Columbus, and that's why it's celebrated: he's fundamentally the reason why we are here right now.Why is Europe so special that it holds primacy over everyone else?Probably because that, over the continent, Europe has collectively owned the entire world over the course of history. So yeah, Europe is pretty important historically. Which is the point of Columbus day, to commemorate a historically important event: Columbus' discovery of America.
Considering you live in a western nation, you will get highlights of European holidays. He never said it was the ONLY one worth celebrating, only that it contributed a huge amount on the world.
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:54:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:44:11 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:38:27 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:35:38 AMQuote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 11:28:01 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.It's celebrated to commemorate the discovery of America in Western civilization. If it absolutely had to be change, "America Day" or "Discovery Day" would be much more accurate than "Indigenous People Day".Again, America was already discovered by the people here. Indigenous People Day celebrates the ones who actually did it first...and that's not the point of the holiday. Discovery by Western civilization. Columbus was a terrible man, but his discovery voyage is one of the two most important events of the era, and the most important for the state of the Americas themselves today. History would have played out much differently if it weren't for Columbus, and that's why it's celebrated: he's fundamentally the reason why we are here right now.Why is Europe so special that it holds primacy over everyone else?Probably because that, over the continent, Europe has collectively owned the entire world over the course of history. So yeah, Europe is pretty important historically. Which is the point of Columbus day, to commemorate a historically important event: Columbus' discovery of America.So Europe is the ONLY region worthy of celebration?
Quote from: Luciana on October 12, 2015, 11:57:23 AMConsidering you live in a western nation, you will get highlights of European holidays. He never said it was the ONLY one worth celebrating, only that it contributed a huge amount on the world.But there are ONLY European holidays being celebrated. That's what we are discussing here, repurposing one of them...
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:59:49 AMQuote from: Luciana on October 12, 2015, 11:57:23 AMConsidering you live in a western nation, you will get highlights of European holidays. He never said it was the ONLY one worth celebrating, only that it contributed a huge amount on the world.But there are ONLY European holidays being celebrated. That's what we are discussing here, repurposing one of them...What is Cinco de MayoWhat is ChristmasWhat is EasterWhat is the 4th of JulyWhat is President's DayWhat is MLK DayWhat is Cรฉsar Chรกvez DayWhat is San Jacinto Day
All but Cinco De Mayo (which isn't celebrated in Mexico) are all religious or don't mention the people who were already here. There are no holidays celebrating those who were here.
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 12:14:15 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:59:49 AMBut there are ONLY European holidays being celebrated. That's what we are discussing here, repurposing one of them...What is Cinco de MayoWhat is ChristmasWhat is EasterWhat is the 4th of JulyWhat is President's DayWhat is MLK DayWhat is Cรฉsar Chรกvez DayWhat is San Jacinto DayAll but Cinco De Mayo (which isn't celebrated in Mexico) are all religious or don't mention the people who were already here. There are no holidays celebrating those who were here.
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:59:49 AMBut there are ONLY European holidays being celebrated. That's what we are discussing here, repurposing one of them...What is Cinco de MayoWhat is ChristmasWhat is EasterWhat is the 4th of JulyWhat is President's DayWhat is MLK DayWhat is Cรฉsar Chรกvez DayWhat is San Jacinto Day
But there are ONLY European holidays being celebrated. That's what we are discussing here, repurposing one of them...
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 12:25:58 PMAll but Cinco De Mayo (which isn't celebrated in Mexico) are all religious or don't mention the people who were already here. There are no holidays celebrating those who were here.maybe they don't need or want or care for oneif they did, maybe they wouldn't need an old white guy to speak up for themjust saying
Umm... You do know this didn't start with me, right?
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 12:54:53 PMUmm... You do know this didn't start with me, right?you're the first person i've ever seen talk about this pressing issue, yes
Quote from: PSU on October 12, 2015, 09:21:48 AMHappy COLUMBUS day. Fuck indigenous people. If they're so smart, how come they're all dead.and an unwillingness for inter-cooperation until it was too late.
Happy COLUMBUS day. Fuck indigenous people. If they're so smart, how come they're all dead.
Columbus fucked me. I went to the bank for nothing, forgetting about this stupid fucking holiday.
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 12, 2015, 09:43:04 AMQuote from: PSU on October 12, 2015, 09:21:48 AMHappy COLUMBUS day. Fuck indigenous people. If they're so smart, how come they're all dead.and an unwillingness for inter-cooperation until it was too late.
Quote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I do
Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I doEven if everybody in the entire world missed the point, then the only thing that implies, is that everybody has missed the point. Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?
Quote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:53:14 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I doEven if everybody in the entire world missed the point, then the only thing that implies, is that everybody has missed the point. Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?Or just you missed the point
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 13, 2015, 12:01:56 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:53:14 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I doEven if everybody in the entire world missed the point, then the only thing that implies, is that everybody has missed the point. Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?Or just you missed the pointI was including myself when I said everyone: Even if I'm wrong with everyone else, then the only thing that implies is that we are all wrong together. Please try not to avoid the discussion we're having.
Quote from: Cadenza on October 13, 2015, 12:09:29 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 13, 2015, 12:01:56 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:53:14 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I doEven if everybody in the entire world missed the point, then the only thing that implies, is that everybody has missed the point. Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?Or just you missed the pointI was including myself when I said everyone: Even if I'm wrong with everyone else, then the only thing that implies is that we are all wrong together. Please try not to avoid the discussion we're having.It's not "everyone" else.4 states have already made the switch. The rest need to follow suit
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 13, 2015, 12:55:16 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 13, 2015, 12:09:29 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 13, 2015, 12:01:56 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:53:14 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 11:03:19 PMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 12, 2015, 11:25:08 AMQuote from: Cadenza on October 12, 2015, 01:00:11 AMQuote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 08, 2015, 10:43:39 AMPersonally, I'm for this. Europeans didn't discover the Americas. People were already here.DiscussI figure the purpose of such a holiday as Columbus Day would be to celebrate the achievements of your ancestors, not to twist them into a means of white guilting everyone.It's not about making you feel guilty. It's about stopping the whitewash of history that paints a monster as a great man. Columbus was as bad as Hitler or Stalin. Read up on what he did. He ordered the rape, murder and enslavement of an entire people. He committed genocide and got a national holiday out of it.You go ahead and repeat that to every America you meet, every little kid and young impressionable person you meet, and you tell me how they respond to it. There's nothing wrong with coming to terms of your people's history, in fact I'd consider it the duty of every citizen to know their country's past, my country New Zealand has a similar story; But what your asking for is nothing short of self flagellation, and that is not going to achieve anything beneficial to anybody.Several states already feel as I doEven if everybody in the entire world missed the point, then the only thing that implies, is that everybody has missed the point. Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message?Or just you missed the pointI was including myself when I said everyone: Even if I'm wrong with everyone else, then the only thing that implies is that we are all wrong together. Please try not to avoid the discussion we're having.It's not "everyone" else.4 states have already made the switch. The rest need to follow suitI think you misunderstand, that was a very general statement I made that could be applied to literally any proposition you could conceive of.To clarify, consider a person who thinks that: 7*2 = -3246843This is wrong and can be proven so. Now if instead of one person who wrongly believed in that, you had a thousand, a million, the entire world, or any arbitrary amount of people who believe in that, then it would still be false. A statement's truth does not depend in any way shape or from upon how many people believe in it.The reason why I'm explaining this is because you seem to think that "multiple states have already replaced Columbus day" somehow implies "replacing Columbus day is a good thing" which is just as ludicrous as the equation above.โโ-Now please just answer the question that you keep avoiding, Do you honestly not understand the kind of message that you'd be conveying, that those states are conveying, by spreading this message? Do you not see how you are simply trying to guilt trip people?
Replace Columbus Day with Indigenous People Day?
