Quote from: Kinder_ on October 06, 2014, 03:58:56 PM

Can't quote on mobile but guess what Challenger? Crime has been DECREASING ever since the 1990s, as I said in an earlier post. Those who do commit gun cfimes are criminals, not law abiding citizens. Because how the heck can a person be law abiding when they commit crimes? Answer: can't. Gun restrictions ONLY hurt the good guy trying to protect themselves; just look at the cities or Detro, Chicago,  D.C, etc and you will notice that murder there is some if the highest in the nation. That's because gun restrictions make innocent people prime targets

And Flee, thousands of people do die yearly but gun deaths are the lowest. The CDC has reported that the leading causes of death are instances like car accidents, drugs, and alcohol.  We all know gun control is a political agenda, not one for "public safety". And refer to my statement above: Cities with strict gun laws account for the reason why people get killed with guns. Mass killings have also always occured in gun-free/gun strict states because the less amount of people with guns, the lesser the chance hey will be stopped before the cops arrive. The recent Oklahoma beheading was stooped by an employee who was xarrying a gun and if it were not for him then at least 2 more peoole would have been killed

Respinsibleand law abiding gun owners are not the problem and we seriously hate the fact that you try to make us the problem. Want to decrease gun crime? Push the effort and money into these bans from them and instead into community outreach programs and activities designed to give potential trouble youth a way to stay away fromma life of crime along with allowing people to have the ability to carry a gun where they please. There's a reason why you never here about a mass killing at a gun show: Because everybody has a damn gun there

I never said crime hasn't been decreasing. Ever.

Crime is high in places like Detroit and Chicago because of poverty and gangs. Crime =/= Deaths caused by guns

Why would anybody push for gun control if they weren't legitimately concerned about all the deaths caused by guns? Why would anybody alienate a large percentage of voters for no reason? Let me guess, to create a dictatorship? Get real. You act as if the thousands of deaths caused by guns don't matter. They do. These aren't just numbers, these are people with lives, family, friends, goals.

As for the last part, I think more effort should be put into getting rid of illegal guns and programs to help troubled kids in poor neighborhoods. Along with legalizing drugs, that would cut down on crime a shit ton.

However, it is far too easy to get a gun in America. Legally. Illegally it's easy as shit too. Which is why when I see people focusing on gun control I don't see it as progress, they're wasting time on having people sign more paperwork instead of actively going after an destroying illegal guns.

I don't trust people to carry a Glock with 18 rounds. The majority of people are dumb and can't keep calm in a dangerous situation. There should be laws put into place so the average idiot can't buy an arsenal of weaponry. There are a shit ton of examples of "law abiding citizens" making mistakes or just outright committing crimes with legally owned firearms. Not to mention their deranged relative stealing their gun and going on a killing rampage with it.

No, guns should not be easily accessible.

Did I say you said that? Read again because I said I said that.

Now we're on the same page. Gangs are formed out of economic issues and children from broken homes. Children, the biggest demographic of gangs, join them because they want to feel accepted and have a sense of importance. That translates into committing crime and crime is prevalent because of the decrease likelihood of a victim having a gun. Armed citizens act as a deterrent for criminals because the risk of being killed does not outweigh the gain from committing a robbery or burglary; I'm studying this exact stuff right now in college

Actually, it is to create a dictatorship in a sense. We overthrew the King George III because he was over-stepping his boundaries, just like the government is doing today. People are getting fed up with the government and it's evident with the number of militia groups growing every single day. Restricting the ability to own guns is preventing new waves of people from taking a stand against the government and keeping it in it's place. Funny  enough that we idolize the Founding Fathers when they were doing the same exact thing people are doing today. On top of that, just a few months ago there was a Californian senator charged for arms trafficking and he was ANTI-GUN OWNERSHIP

Please, explain to me how I'm not caring about people dying? Good ole Challenger trying to make up lies in order to make himself look smart. All I said was that deaths resulting from crime is low compared to other causes of death and that going after the good guys won't stop bad guys

You want to get rid of illegal guns? Well you better hold the government responsible. Ever hear of Operation: Fast and Furious? Government sold Mexican cartels weapons, lost track of them, and the weapons were sold back to American criminals. Your tax dollars at work!

Legalize drugs, criminals will find something else to profit with. Going to legalize depleted uranium? Might as well because it will get to that eventually. Think realistically; crime and gang problems will never be dealt away with but they sure as hell can be controlled and greatly lowered. We can keep drugs like heroin, cocaine, oxy, etc illegal while developing programs to give kids a chance and a positive environment to feel accepted in while creating harsher penalties for people that commit gang related crime instead of giving them a reduced sentence or probation

Background checks don't need to take a week to complete. Fill out information, send it off to the government, and they run it through a national database and instantly they get a report back. Maybe 15+ years ago when we didn't have access to this technology I would agree on increasing the wait period but we have the technology now.

Average idiot? Really? Get a grip will you. There's nothing idiotic with owning multiple guns and carrying a weapon legally. As I pointed out with the recent Oklahoma beheading, if it were not for an employee carrying then more than 1 person would be dead. I personally own 5 rifles and my dad owns 3 handguns and 2 shotguns. And guess what? I'm going to keep buying guns and only need a $100 till I go out and buy a Romanian WASR 10/63 with a 75-round drum magazine. I fucking love being an American and I fucking love owning guns. That will NEVER be taken away from me

Now reply and let's continue this pointless discussion. Nothing I or you saw will change our opinions. I used to be very anti-gun myself but learned about them and now love them just as much as God and my family

Quote from: Camnator on October 06, 2014, 06:04:26 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 05:31:02 PM

Quote from: Camnator on October 06, 2014, 05:14:57 PM

Quote from: Flee on October 06, 2014, 05:10:53 PM

Quote from: Camnator on October 06, 2014, 03:51:20 PM

It seems we'll never know how big gangs contribute, actually, nor would I ever trust the F.B.I. to have an accurate account.

http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm

>disagreeing with the official National Gang Center, an institution by the federal Department of Justice
>linking usconservatives.about.com instead

Camnator pls. When an institution of the DoJ brings forth the statistical fact that gang-related killings only make up a fraction of all the gun homicides in the US, you're going to have do a lot better than this to refute it.

No worse than that junk Huffington Post. You're also assuming the DOJ is at all credible. It's littered with criminals that wish to spread fear in order to keep their bogus existence.

It's far worse. Huffington Post is shitty, but your site is worse than Fox News.

Besides, the point of my article is that it has facts pulled from valid and unbiased places. The article is irrelevant.

Nothing is worse than Huffington Post, though.Those "facts" are definitely from biased sources that no one should trust. And it really irrelevant. It's been shown time after time strict gun control only makes things worse for everyone. You said it yourself prohibition doesn't work with alcohol, so why would you conclude it would work with firearms?

Let me guess, the illuminati tampered with the facts?

No it was the lizard people.

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 06, 2014, 05:57:38 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 06, 2014, 05:13:10 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on October 06, 2014, 03:58:56 PM

Can't quote on mobile but guess what Challenger? Crime has been DECREASING ever since the 1990s, as I said in an earlier post. Those who do commit gun cfimes are criminals, not law abiding citizens. Because how the heck can a person be law abiding when they commit crimes? Answer: can't. Gun restrictions ONLY hurt the good guy trying to protect themselves; just look at the cities or Detro, Chicago,  D.C, etc and you will notice that murder there is some if the highest in the nation. That's because gun restrictions make innocent people prime targets

And Flee, thousands of people do die yearly but gun deaths are the lowest. The CDC has reported that the leading causes of death are instances like car accidents, drugs, and alcohol.  We all know gun control is a political agenda, not one for "public safety". And refer to my statement above: Cities with strict gun laws account for the reason why people get killed with guns. Mass killings have also always occured in gun-free/gun strict states because the less amount of people with guns, the lesser the chance hey will be stopped before the cops arrive. The recent Oklahoma beheading was stooped by an employee who was xarrying a gun and if it were not for him then at least 2 more peoole would have been killed

Respinsibleand law abiding gun owners are not the problem and we seriously hate the fact that you try to make us the problem. Want to decrease gun crime? Push the effort and money into these bans from them and instead into community outreach programs and activities designed to give potential trouble youth a way to stay away fromma life of crime along with allowing people to have the ability to carry a gun where they please. There's a reason why you never here about a mass killing at a gun show: Because everybody has a damn gun there

I never said crime hasn't been decreasing. Ever.

Crime is high in places like Detroit and Chicago because of poverty and gangs. Crime =/= Deaths caused by guns

Why would anybody push for gun control if they weren't legitimately concerned about all the deaths caused by guns? Why would anybody alienate a large percentage of voters for no reason? Let me guess, to create a dictatorship? Get real. You act as if the thousands of deaths caused by guns don't matter. They do. These aren't just numbers, these are people with lives, family, friends, goals.

As for the last part, I think more effort should be put into getting rid of illegal guns and programs to help troubled kids in poor neighborhoods. Along with legalizing drugs, that would cut down on crime a shit ton.

However, it is far too easy to get a gun in America. Legally. Illegally it's easy as shit too. Which is why when I see people focusing on gun control I don't see it as progress, they're wasting time on having people sign more paperwork instead of actively going after an destroying illegal guns.

I don't trust people to carry a Glock with 18 rounds. The majority of people are dumb and can't keep calm in a dangerous situation. There should be laws put into place so the average idiot can't buy an arsenal of weaponry. There are a shit ton of examples of "law abiding citizens" making mistakes or just outright committing crimes with legally owned firearms. Not to mention their deranged relative stealing their gun and going on a killing rampage with it.

No, guns should not be easily accessible.

Did I say you said that? Read again because I said I said that.

Now we're on the same page. Gangs are formed out of economic issues and children from broken homes. Children, the biggest demographic of gangs, join them because they want to feel accepted and have a sense of importance. That translates into committing crime and crime is prevalent because of the decrease likelihood of a victim having a gun. Armed citizens act as a deterrent for criminals because the risk of being killed does not outweigh the gain from committing a robbery or burglary; I'm studying this exact stuff right now in college

Actually, it is to create a dictatorship in a sense. We overthrew the King George III because he was over-stepping his boundaries, just like the government is doing today. People are getting fed up with the government and it's evident with the number of militia groups growing every single day. Restricting the ability to own guns is preventing new waves of people from taking a stand against the government and keeping it in it's place. Funny  enough that we idolize the Founding Fathers when they were doing the same exact thing people are doing today. On top of that, just a few months ago there was a Californian senator charged for arms trafficking and he was ANTI-GUN OWNERSHIP

Please, explain to me how I'm not caring about people dying? Good ole Challenger trying to make up lies in order to make himself look smart. All I said was that deaths resulting from crime is low compared to other causes of death and that going after the good guys won't stop bad guys

You want to get rid of illegal guns? Well you better hold the government responsible. Ever hear of Operation: Fast and Furious? Government sold Mexican cartels weapons, lost track of them, and the weapons were sold back to American criminals. Your tax dollars at work!

Legalize drugs, criminals will find something else to profit with. Going to legalize depleted uranium? Might as well because it will get to that eventually. Think realistically; crime and gang problems will never be dealt away with but they sure as hell can be controlled and greatly lowered. We can keep drugs like heroin, cocaine, oxy, etc illegal while developing programs to give kids a chance and a positive environment to feel accepted in while creating harsher penalties for people that commit gang related crime instead of giving them a reduced sentence or probation

Background checks don't need to take a week to complete. Fill out information, send it off to the government, and they run it through a national database and instantly they get a report back. Maybe 15+ years ago when we didn't have access to this technology I would agree on increasing the wait period but we have the technology now.

Average idiot? Really? Get a grip will you. There's nothing idiotic with owning multiple guns and carrying a weapon legally. As I pointed out with the recent Oklahoma beheading, if it were not for an employee carrying then more than 1 person would be dead. I personally own 5 rifles and my dad owns 3 handguns and 2 shotguns. And guess what? I'm going to keep buying guns and only need a $100 till I go out and buy a Romanian WASR 10/63 with a 75-round drum magazine. I fracking love being an American and I fracking love owning guns. That will NEVER be taken away from me

Now reply and let's continue this pointless discussion. Nothing I or you saw will change our opinions. I used to be very anti-gun myself but learned about them and now love them just as much as God and my family

I grew up in LA. I don't need you to tell me about gangs and poverty.

I didn't say anything about having a shotty or pistol in the house. It's carrying guns in public that I don't agree with.

Nobody's overstepping boundaries. You don't need an arsenal of rifles unless you're going to use them. Guns are not toys. This is exactly why I don't like the lax gun laws and the loophole that allows people to buy guns at a gun show. I couldn't care less about some corrupt politician. And I am well aware of how the U.S. government "lost" a bunch of guns and how they ended up in cartel hands. Or how Freeway Ricky flooded LA with coke and crack with people mixed up with the CIA.

Because you're looking at it as a statistic. Whether or not the numbers are low compare dot something else is irrelevant. Shit, rocket launchers have killed less people than nukes, his come we can't get a permit to buy those? Or how about setting up turrets on our houses? That is ridiculous logic. I hesitate to even use the word logic.

Are you serious? Depleted uranium? You seriously think your local street gang is going to survive off that? You can make $3,000 dollars a day selling crack. EASY. On a slow day. Take that away and suddenly joining a gang and cooking up work seems a lot less appealing.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you completely ignorant of gang injunctions? Committing a crime whilst being a gang member increases your sentence a SHIT TON. Something that's get you 2 years could get you 10 if you're a gang member. Wearing a white T shirt is a criminal offense if you're a gang member in California.

It's not about wait times. It's about not allowing the average person to buy a bunch of rifles. If you don't need them, don't buy them. They're not toys or collectables. They're weapons. Show some respect and maturity.

I couldn't care less what gun you're going to buy and how you think that's the best part of being an American, or that someone is less American for not buying guns by the boat load.

I like guns. Doesn't mean I'd buy a truck load of em unless I needed to. There's nothing to love. If you look at a gun as anything other than a tool or weapon, you're compensating for something and have major insecurities.

This is a pointless conversation. Reason is wasted on the reasonless.

Going to correct you on a couple things.

1. There is no gun show loophole. There maybe two or three guys that bring a gun and have a for sale paper on it, but that's it. Everybody else that sells guns are either federally licensed and have to conduct background checks or are selling weapons that were made before 1899 and no paperwork or licenses are needed. Don't ever hear about people killing people with muskets do you?

After attending multiple gun shows over the past few years, I can assure you this whole "gun show loophole" is an EXTREMELY twisted and false idea portrayed by the left because they have no firearms knowledge. Out of the people who sell guns at gun shows, around 98% are those sold by people required to conduct checks, 1.9% who sell pre-1899 guns, and .1% who just sell a gun privately

2. I do use all my guns. Every time I head to the range I mix it up and take different guns. All are equally used

3. It's perfectly legal to purchase and own a RPG/rocket launcher. They're highly restricted, require a speacial license, have to go through extensive checks, and need to get the chief of police to sign a piece of paper. Plus they're VERY expensive to own

4. Well, cars kill more people than guns annually but people collect them. Swords and knives also kill people and they're collected. Guns are collectible; there's a reason why people specialize in curio and relic firearms and I have 3 myself

What annoys me is that white folk can walk into supermarkets with fracking rifles and no one gives a shit

I don't care what ethnic background you are. If you are minding your own business and packing, cool. I actually told a mother of two who was packing, "Thanks for supporting the 2nd Amendment." I'd only get nervous if they are constantly touching their holstered/slung weapon as if they were getting ready to whip it out when its not needed.

People who've never grown up around firearms are just scared because they didn't learn the respect that comes with them.