Quote from: CK97 on October 02, 2015, 07:49:14 AMQuote from: Flee on October 02, 2015, 04:39:37 AMI don't even want to go on B.net or any other forum and see the dozens of "but criminals don't follow laws"Because they don't."Criminals don't follow laws" is a completely empty statement. It's about as useful of a contribution to this debate as "drivers are people who drive" or "pilots are people who fly airplanes".
Quote from: Flee on October 02, 2015, 04:39:37 AMI don't even want to go on B.net or any other forum and see the dozens of "but criminals don't follow laws"Because they don't.
I don't even want to go on B.net or any other forum and see the dozens of "but criminals don't follow laws"
The problem with that statement is the message that it's trying to convey. It's a hollow statement looking to appeal to people who get their political beliefs of a bumper sticker and fall for every seemingly powerful and deep message that is actually as shallow as they come and lacking in any nuance.
The idea behind this particularly poor argument is that criminals don't follow any of these laws to begin with, so having any sort of gun control would only hurt and affect the good law-abiding citizens who do follow them while criminals will just keep going at it, continuously commiting crimes that are now made even easier because there's no more good guys with guns to stop them.
In reality, as anyone with some knowledge on this subject would be able to tell you, this is absolutely not true. Looking at all the tons of available evidence on a global scale, gun reforms result in sharp declines in firearm deaths almost immediately afterwards. "Some criminals obey some laws of the time" is the whole premise of law enforcement and criminal law. It comes as no surprise that "even imperfect efforts to restrict gun availability to high-risk people can reduce illegal gun use on the margin, even if these regulatory barriers can be overcome in a number of ways by those who are determined to obtain a gun."
Your whole premise is a plain tautology that adds nothing to this discussion at all. You can use it to address any law. Why should we make rape, fraud or murder illegal? The good, law-abiding citizens who are sound of mind and have a prope rmoral compass are not going to commit those actions anyways, while the "evil" people or criminals will not follow the laws. Why limit others by having traffic regulations? The responsible people will drive responsibly and carefully anyways, while the rulebreakers will still speed and ignore traffic lights. It's just limiting the good people and would not stop anyone who wants to go 150mph down a local road from doing so in the first place.
It has been shown time and time again that laws work.
They are the basis of our society. Even when some people don't, it both deters people from stepping into criminality and already existing criminals with prior facts from getting in even more trouble. It won't step everyone, of course, but it undeniably helps.
When will it be enough to even have a discussion about it? How many of these have to happen before we actually stop and say the system should be reviewed?
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 02, 2015, 10:23:04 AMWhen will it be enough to even have a discussion about it? How many of these have to happen before we actually stop and say the system should be reviewed?People do this literally every time this happens. What else do people discuss on the news afte every tragedy? It's always a long debate about reform, it even got to the point where Obama wanted to ban assault weapons.
I have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.
Quote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home security
Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:48:31 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.To you, some people actually still value the concept of personal liberties
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.
Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:51:26 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:49:10 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:48:31 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.To you, some people actually still value the concept of personal liberties"Personal liberty" honestly sounds like a reason people give when there is nothing else for them to use."Why should we make heroin use legal? Personal Liberty!"Yeah someone should be able to do whatever they want as long as its not infringing upon another's rights. Really don't see what's hard to understand about that. What gives you the right to tell someone to not use heroin?
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:49:10 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:48:31 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.To you, some people actually still value the concept of personal liberties"Personal liberty" honestly sounds like a reason people give when there is nothing else for them to use."Why should we make heroin use legal? Personal Liberty!"
Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:54:30 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:53:29 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:51:26 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:49:10 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:48:31 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.To you, some people actually still value the concept of personal liberties"Personal liberty" honestly sounds like a reason people give when there is nothing else for them to use."Why should we make heroin use legal? Personal Liberty!"Yeah someone should be able to do whatever they want as long as its not infringing upon another's rights. Really don't see what's hard to understand about that. What gives you the right to tell someone to not use heroin?The fact that I'll likely end up paying for his medical issues stemming from heroin use, his time in jail from heroin use, or the fact that it's absolutely moronic and does little to help him without issues he actually is having.None of that gives you the right. If he wants to inject himself with a lethal substance he has that right as a human being. I bet you want to make suicide illegal too don't you?
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:53:29 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:51:26 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:49:10 PMQuote from: spewky bewgie on October 02, 2015, 12:48:31 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 11:46:09 AMQuote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 11:44:55 AMI have done very little thinking into the issue of gun control, for some reason. That being said, it seems very obvious to me that guns should not be publicly available under any circumstances. I can't really think of a good reason to have a gun. Somebody critique me.Personal liberty and home securityPersonal liberty is the worst reason.To you, some people actually still value the concept of personal liberties"Personal liberty" honestly sounds like a reason people give when there is nothing else for them to use."Why should we make heroin use legal? Personal Liberty!"Yeah someone should be able to do whatever they want as long as its not infringing upon another's rights. Really don't see what's hard to understand about that. What gives you the right to tell someone to not use heroin?The fact that I'll likely end up paying for his medical issues stemming from heroin use, his time in jail from heroin use, or the fact that it's absolutely moronic and does little to help him without issues he actually is having.
Then write your friend Barack and tell him to get on it. Oh yeah, Theres no God just because some lunatic decided to do the devils bidding and kill some innocent people. Makes sense. God just needed those people up in heaven with him. I'm proud of every one of those brave Christians who stood by their faith even with a gun to their head.
But it could if it was a failed attempt so tell me what's the difference?Also this problem could easily be solved if hospitals didn't give treatment unless someone had the capabilities to pay for it themselves with insurance rather than use tax payer money. But that's a sacrilegious conjecture for the liberal agenda, how dare I.
I don't see why someone should lose their right to everything for using heroin? I didn't say that. If they do it and overdose and need to go to the hospital, fine as long as they can cover the charges themselves. If not sucks to suck, shouldn't have used that heroin. The point of doing these things is that you also still be a functioning member of society or you can die for all I care.
Yeah you don't care about personal liberty until the government tries to take away something you do care about.
Quote from: Winy on October 02, 2015, 02:36:06 PMQuote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:43:56 PMYeah you don't care about personal liberty until the government tries to take away something you do care about.The point is that you shouldn't care about guns.That's your opinion
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 02, 2015, 12:43:56 PMYeah you don't care about personal liberty until the government tries to take away something you do care about.The point is that you shouldn't care about guns.