On the subject of males in universities

Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
YouTube


An interesting Anti-Feminism video calling for significantly more male representation in universities, and why it can benefit society.


 
Verbatim
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>sargon

this is the serious board


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
It's not Sargon though, it's another individual who Sargon has let host on his channel.

>sargon


 
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Can I get a synopsis?


 
 
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Skimmed through this for a few seconds. Is there anything more to it than "more geniuses were men, so support men in science more than women"? With literal comments like "leave university to men", this seems even more vapid and dumb than the typical redpill videos by the likes of Sargon.
Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 06:55:44 PM by Flee


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
He basically brings up that males and females have undeniable differences/advantages in certain fields, and brings up a bell curve where women have a tendency to have a higher amount of average intelligence whereas males have less average intelligence a high amount of both low and very high intelligence. He then claims that most of the brilliant minds of the past were male because of this curve and that universities should foster males because they have a bigger chance of bringing about greater minds like the ones in the past.

The problem society is facing today he says, is that with new innovations and creations, it creates new industries which employs people and as efficiency improves, employment is scaled back. So we have reached a point where innovation is being scaled down, and as a result, we'll eventually scale back employment and the economy as a whole because our ability to invent new fields and industry has slowed, and he claims this is a result of pushing for more females at higher levels of education.

He certainly words it better than I do.

Can I get a synopsis?


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
Do you have an answer to the problem he raises of our lack of innovation?

Skimmed through this for a few seconds. Is there anything more to it than "more geniuses were men, so support men in science more than women"? With literal comments like "leave university to men", this seems even more vapid and dumb than the typical redpill videos by the likes of Sargon.


 
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There are more women attending college in Iran than men. Surely you're not going to tell me Iran has a "feminism problem"?


 
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He basically brings up that males and females have undeniable differences/advantages in certain fields, and brings up a bell curve where women have a tendency to have a higher amount of average intelligence whereas males have less average intelligence a high amount of both low and very high intelligence. He then claims that most of the brilliant minds of the past were male because of this curve and that universities should foster males because they have a bigger chance of bringing about greater minds like the ones in the past.

The problem society is facing today he says, is that with new innovations and creations, it creates new industries which employs people and as efficiency improves, employment is scaled back. So we have reached a point where innovation is being scaled down, and as a result, we'll eventually scale back employment and the economy as a whole because our ability to invent new fields and industry has slowed, and he claims this is a result of pushing for more females at higher levels of education.

He certainly words it better than I do.

Can I get a synopsis?

So, we're not innovating enough because of women?



Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
We're not innovating enough because we favor women in education is what he's saying.

So, we're not innovating enough because of women?


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
Do you want to live in Iran?

There are more women attending college in Iran than men. Surely you're not going to tell me Iran has a "feminism problem"?


 
 
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<.<
If we take the idea that not enough blokes are going to university to do something productive as the issue then I'd say the underlying problem starts a lot earlier than university, at least in the UK, I don't know how it is in the USA but I'll speak for what I've seen.

The way the school system is set up, for early years learning, is stacked against boys. This isn't oy vey anudda shoah throw all the women in the ovens, because it's no fault of the girls in the classes that the lessons and school structure works better for them. I'm also talking about primary year education, not high school at which point there is less of an issue in education structure through greater choice/self-determination.

Role models is the first point, there are very very few male primary school teachers. Now you can speculate as to why this is, but I imagine a combination of rampant vilification/witch-hunting over male teachers (One more reason why journalists ought to be rounded up and shot, but that's a side issue), shit pay and the unending fuckery that the government is doing with the national curriculum.

With there being bloody few men to act as role models for young lads, they switch off in class. Shock horror to the world, but oddly enough people are taught best by someone they can identify with. That doesn't only apply to ethnicity, but gender too. That's not to say you cannot learn from someone who is dissimilar to you, but at an early age where a lot of important mimicry goes on in young kids it's not ideal to have them deprived of a decent role model to encourage them into learning rather than dicking around in class.

Then you can look at the finer points of lesson times, structure, lack of physical activity/practical work to see why so many boys get bored shitless in lessons and as such - fuck around rather than learn, and it's hardly surprising that less and less lads are doing anything academic with their brains instead of just squandering them.

I don't think screeching that universities should be for men is gonna fix a problem that started 20/30 years ago, but the closure of grammar schools here also royally fucked over lads with brains. When you shoehorn all children through the same education, it doesn't help the best achieve their potential. You mix in labourers, craftsmen, mechanics and the like with a few budding physicists and you get a shitshow when it comes to trying to coax a room full of teenagers through algebra. Half the room doesn't, and will never care, the rest are trying to learn but are disrupted by the idiocy in the back row.



 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
Do you want to live in Iran?

There are more women attending college in Iran than men. Surely you're not going to tell me Iran has a "feminism problem"?
If the current government were overthrown or at least radically changed, absolutely. Beats Europe for sure.


MyNameIsCharlie | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Get of my lawn
Question, are males currently under represented in universities?

Not what you feel, either. Any real data on this?


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The current titlebar/avatar setup is courtesy of Ugly Americans, with a little hint of Apocalypse Now.
Meh. I've only seen the complete opposite through my time in education up to now. Sure, >anecdotal, but I'd hardly say I'm some crazy outlier who ploughed through education radically (or came out any better or worse for it).

Primary school;
Ireland - Male Head teacher, Female teacher for two years, Male for the other 2.
UK - Male Head teacher who also taught my only year there (skipped a year because apparently Irish schooling system is different)

Secondary School;
All STEM subjects barring biology were taught by men, and had male heads of department, at least while I was there. Languages, Social studies and other "soft" subjects were female taught, History being the only exception.

University is the only one I've seen a near 50/50 split in Lecturers by gender. The difference is in the class however; 60 students, 7 female. Geology is a male-dominated course, and preference for males as Professors, Researchers, etc, with unsurprisingly few women in the subject (it's more surprising how equal my university is in teaching my subject tbh).

I wouldn't say the education system has stymied men from being "innovators" or at least leading in research. In my course there are few exceptional students, and of those ~10 who are, 1 is female. Regardless, all have contributed to ongoing research in the field and elsewhere, fuck I've even chosen to do a bit myself as part of a module.

It's really down to aptitude, and a students' entusiasm. Lecturers, for want of a better word, groom the geniuses in the class towards research-based fields, eventually going on to do MSc's or PhD's, writing papers along the way, and bring the field forward a bit. It doesn't matter what gender they are, the geniuses are the ones leading the way. Whether that's preferentially biased towards males, females, or generally equal, I don't know, but I refuse to believe it's hampering scientific progress as a whole. Measuring by changes in GDP doesn't seem reliable at all given the so many other variables that would have a larger impact on it.
Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:56:35 AM by Môr-ladron


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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
BEGONE UNI THOTS


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
See now, what this really is is just misogyny camouflaged as utilitarianism. It's an old Nazi trick, really. Convince the drones that undesirables need to be removed from positions of influence for the good of society and next thing you know you can round up slavs by tens of thousands for slave labor with nobody batting an eye.

It starts with taking women out of universities, then you take them back out of the workplace to reverse the damage to the housing market that the dual income family standard did, then you remove them from life.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
You make it sound like that's a bad thing.

See now, what this really is is just misogyny camouflaged as utilitarianism. It's an old Nazi trick, really. Convince the drones that undesirables need to be removed from positions of influence for the good of society and next thing you know you can round up slavs by tens of thousands for slave labor with nobody batting an eye.

It starts with taking women out of universities, then you take them back out of the workplace to reverse the damage to the housing market that the dual income family standard did, then you remove them from life.


 
 
Flee
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Do you have an answer to the problem he raises of our lack of innovation?
The main thing I'm seeing are a lot of assumptions and anecdotes with little proper data to support it.

The variability hypothesis is still just a hypothesis with wildly different results based on the tests taken and the circumstances that apply. There's plenty of studies out there that challenge this idea and found that the differences in performance and test scores are a lot smaller than what those curves would suggest, and that they are the result not of biology and inherent differences, but of social and cultural factors. This is somewhat supported by probably the largest research of this kind in the world, being Duke University's gender gap in academia study. Looking at literally hundreds of thousands of teens and their standardized test results, they found that while men are indeed more present at the absolute top level of math / science / spatial reasoning tests (0.01%), the representation of women in that top group has increased fourfold over the last 20 years because of our efforts to give talented women the opportunity to succeed in male dominated fields. The people behind the study even used these results to suggest that we're actually not doing enough to foster women's talents and that we would benefit from doing so to solve some of the struggles we face.

The science behind his entire argument is very shaky at best and even seems to undermine his own arguments. The anecdotes of so many notable geniuses in the past being male is likely to have a lot more to do with how those fields were almost impossible to access for women because of society back then. The very Wikipedia article on the curve he uses even addresses this in detail by pointing out that it was not empirical evidence but "armchair dogma about innate female inferiority" that played a big role in keeping women down and out of positions of eminence. Instead of endlessly drumming on about lists of male geniuses (this dude really loves the sound of his own voice) and how we're going to miss out on the next Edison, Einstein or Newton, he should've spent a bit more time researching and talking about all of the female geniuses we probably missed because of their historical lack of opportunities to develop themselves.

I'm also seeing no evidence that his solution would make any sort of meaningful impact on the main problem of innovation he presents. Where is the proof that substantial numbers of men with high potential are being denied the right opportunities to develop their talents and get into STEM, and that is caused by us somehow supporting women in science too? To my knowledge, men are still heavily favored in STEM fields and make up the majority there. If the next genius can't fulfil his potential for whatever reason, I see this being caused by a lot of financial, social, motivational and situational factors rather than "sorry, we gave your spot to a dumb girl". Where is his proof that it's somehow women who are killing it for men so that we should leave university to just males?

What we need is more of a meritocracy. Lowered barriers for both sexes and schooling that gets children and young adults the opportunities they need to develop equally in their desired field or area of aptitude. Both of them can and will excel at the highest levels of science and tech, and we will inevitably see the differences between men and women in these top percentiles drop further. This video was probably one of the poorest and most borderline sexist things I've seen in a while and only further lowers the already very little trust I have in these youtube armchair political warriors like Sargon. Ironically enough, the guy arguing against quotas in universities seems to suggest exactly that, but only in favor of men because of his shaky and questionable reasons. Shame, because there's real arguments to be made against how we're handling gender quotas and how our current methods of schooling are less than stellar for a lot of children (see Psy's example), but instead this turned into some biased redpill thing.
Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 06:16:43 AM by Flee


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
Who here asks for permission before they take up a career path or pursue some academic field?

Not many, right?


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How does he quantify and measure innovation?


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.

To everyone asking about his sources, it's as Flee has said, the guy in the video is straight up pulling shit out of his ass. My reasoning for bringing this video up isn't because I think there's a gender war that's blocking males from entering universities, but that there may be hindrances that could block anyone from going to college. I say maybe because I really don't want to look up statistics and sources. There's some things in the video that echoed though me, it's more on me as an individual rather than me and males as a whole. What I'll give is entirely anecdotal, I wont try to tout it as fact, merely a recount as to what happened to me and a possibility that there might be others like me out there that could face the same dilemma.

I don't have a college degree, nor do my two older brothers. My younger sister might be the only one out of the four of us that'll ever have one. I went to college part-time for two years before I left out of frustration. I left for a multitude of reasons. One reason was I had no sense of direction, I was only doing Gen-Ed classes and had no major declared, something like what field you're going into is something most people have figured out before starting college and even if they change in the middle of their studies, they'd probably know exactly what they want to go into. I know now I would want to go into some form of film production. Frankly though, I have little interest in picking up where I left off two years ago.

Another reason was the constant push for STEM, throughout all of high school I was bombarded with adults telling me I HAD to go to college, and I HAD to major in some form of STEM. It was really pressuring and I ended up just walking away from it, there was no fostering of any other possible field of study; just straight up push for engineering, medical, or hard science. Which is incredibly ironic that I get to college and almost all my gen-eds were completely Humanities. After spending four years being told in high school that I'm getting all my foundation learning and college is where you'll get into your specialized field, I felt lied and betrayed to find more foundation learning. Possibly the one thing I agree with the video I posted is a push for humanities, I absolutely hated it.

It's also the constant push to go to college that pushes me away from it. Having family, and fellow coworkers just constantly talk about how I NEED to go back and finish school really angers me. I want to see how far I can make it without a degree and if I ever reach management within Disney, I just want to tell all my family off about how they were wrong. I feel as though society around me is built off the expectation of me going to college, and because I never finished I'm a failure; I don't want that pressure, if I return from my indefinite hiatus it's because I chose to do it, not because others expected me to.

If the guy in the video believes that less males are entering universities, I believe he should look up all types of reasoning, he only needs to look at me to see it has nothing to do with females and more to do with pressure. And you can look at Japan as an example of a country that pressures youth into higher education too much and why it's a problem.
Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:48:12 AM by Ian


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY

To everyone asking about his sources, it's as Flee has said, the guy in the video is straight up pulling shit out of his ass. My reasoning for bringing this video up isn't because I think there's a gender war that's blocking males from entering universities, but that there may be hindrances that could block anyone from going to college. I say maybe because I really don't want to look up statistics and sources. There's some things in the video that echoed though me, it's more on me as an individual rather than me and males as a whole. What I'll give is entirely anecdotal, I wont try to tout it as fact, merely a recount as to what happened to me and a possibility that there might be others like me out there that could face the same dilemma.

I don't have a college degree, nor do my two older brothers. My younger sister might be the only one out of the four of us that'll ever have one. I went to college part-time for two years before I left out of frustration. I left for a multitude of reasons. One reason was I had no sense of direction, I was only doing Gen-Ed classes and had no major declared, something like what field you're going into is something most people have figured out before starting college and even if they change in the middle of their studies, they'd probably know exactly what they want to go into. I know now I would want to go into some form of film production. Frankly though, I have little interest in picking up where I left off two years ago.

Another reason was the constant push for STEM, throughout all of high school I was bombarded with adults telling me I HAD to go to college, and I HAD to major in some form of STEM. It was really pressuring and I ended up just walking away from it, there was no fostering of any other possible field of study; just straight up push for engineering, medical, or hard science. Which is incredibly ironic that I get to college and almost all my gen-eds were completely Humanities. After spending four years being told in high school that I'm getting all my foundation learning and college is where you'll get into your specialized field, I felt lied and betrayed to find more foundation learning. Possibly the one thing I agree with the video I posted is a push for humanities, I absolutely hated it.

It's also the constant push to go to college that pushes me away from it. Having family, and fellow coworkers just constantly talk about how I NEED to go back and finish school really angers me. I want to see how far I can make it without a degree and if I ever reach management within Disney, I just want to tell all my family off about how they were wrong. I feel as though society around me is built off the expectation of me going to college, and because I never finished I'm a failure; I don't want that pressure, if I return from my indefinite hiatus it's because I chose to do it, not because others expected me to.

If the guy in the video believes that less males are entering universities, I believe he should look up all types of reasoning, he only needs to look at me to see it has nothing to do with females and more to do with pressure. And you can look at Japan as an example of a country that pressures youth into higher education too much and why it's a problem.
lol


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Garlemald did nothing wrong.


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
Go fuck a goat Ahkmed.

lol
Stop pressuring me; if I fuck a goat it's of my own volition.


 
 
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How does he quantify and measure innovation?
Only source I see in the description is this, which just seems to state that innovation is slowing because the real GDP of developed nations is increasing at lower rates.

http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1502


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How does he quantify and measure innovation?
Only source I see in the description is this, which just seems to state that innovation is slowing because the real GDP of developed nations is increasing at lower rates.

http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1502

The concept of "innovation" is a literal economic meme right now, so I don't really put any stock in his arguments, nor do I see a reason to quantify it by measuring real GDP trends. What a dumbfuck premise.


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So, I'm not watching the video because eugh, but it seems like kind of a shit argument?

Universities were literally invented by men and were, for a long time, exclusively meant to cater towards men. Women outnumber men in colleges in the current day, sure, but it's not as though it's by a hugely significant percentage and it's not as though colleges discriminate against men.

I suppose you could rightfully use the term "overcompensation" to describe the push for women attending colleges in the modern age - since, like I said, they now outnumber men as a whole - but I think historically there's a precedent set for such a thing to make perfect sense.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Oh yeah, I still haven't watched it either, but >cuckgon of cuckad


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Garlemald did nothing wrong.
It is, he doesn't really provide any sources for his claims of male superiority other than listing off names of geniuses who happen to be male. As stated earlier, I posted the video in an effort to push discussion over what different kinds of things could be pushing men away from college, as he not only doesn't back up his claim that men are leaving because of women, but saying it's the sole reason would be silly in and of itself.

So, I'm not watching the video because eugh, but it seems like kind of a shit argument?