New Zealand Mass Shooting

Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
People need to recognize that it's very important to at least try to have a dialogue with the other side, and to advocate for that. It's not going to be easy and I don't think anyone is expecting it to be. But this increasingly pervasive attitude within our society/culture that the other side isn't just wrong but is actually evil, beyond reasoning or redemption, and that discourse with them is somehow a bad thing is just an absolutely abhorrent idea, in my eyes, and a serious threat to society as a whole.

Sorry, but I just don't believe PewDiePie fosters racist or sexist ideas. I don't know what this vile community you're talking about is, I haven't seen it. The "community" I have seen, his fanbase, is full of a very diverse range of people. The guy has nearly 90 million subscribers, and you are bound to have virtually every type of person within that many people, good or bad. PewDiePie has made some mistakes, but it's pretty obvious to me that he doesn't advocate for racist or sexist ideas and I'm not going to hold him responsible for what fringe wackos do or say in his name when he doesn't condone it and has no control over these people. Some people might say he shouldn't be edgy when he has such a large subscriber base, but I don't believe his right to be edgy should be forfeit because of that.
Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 05:19:12 PM by Aether


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I mean, Pewdiepie has called someone a "fucking nigger", paid people to parade a "death to all jews" sign around, promoted a holocaust denier channel, created a super edgy community rife with racism and sexism that the man himself doesn't say a bad word about.

Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it, I dont think saying that work makes you hitler. That sign was pretty bad not going to lie, but I dont think anyone actually thought it was going to happen, and the holocaust denier? Was it when he was promoting a bunch of channels a month or so ago? He was promoting it based on a few vids he watched, you really going to expect someone to watch every single one of their videos before they decide to promote them or not? Thats a bit far fetched.

Hes also said time and time again he doesnt condone the actions of people who watch his vids to attack people, be it online or the other, again hes apologized for his mistakes, what else can he do? Not to mention he isnt responsible for the actions of his 'community'. He isnt telling people to mess up someones place or anything like that. Hes a guy that makes videos about memes, they have been edgy in the past but for the most part hes had to heavily backtrack on a lot of things.

Hell if this moron in NZ didnt even mention Pewdiepie we wouldnt be talking about this. I dont believe for a second he took inspiration of the channel and purely did it to cause this rift and draw attention.  That much should be obvious.


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Actually to add to the above you cant expect anyone to be accountable for 90 million other people.


maverick | Legendary Invincible!
 
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People are very right in looking for solutions to these complicated problems.
Batch's point is that these people aren't genuinely looking for solutions and just want to point the finger at their political opponents while jumping through hoops to connect it to the shooting. As he already referenced, Chelsea Clinton is currently being dragged on twitter for supposedly being responsible for the shooting because she was previously critical of Muslim congresswoman Ilhan Omar. How is this constructive?

I disagree with the notion that anti-SJW crowd is a gateway toward extremism, especially when most of the people you listed have denounced Alex Jones, the alt-right, the great replacement, etc. Felix may have right-wing, possibly even alt-right, views but you have to dig through his "Following" list on twitter to see it; it doesn't reflect in his content. This seems like little more than thought-policing.

The shooter had stated that he specifically picked his rifle in order to violently escalate the gun debate. Does it really seem likely that he was radicalized by Pewdiepie, or that he wanted people to think he was radicalized by Pewdiepie? I doubt that he was genuinely a fan of Pewdiepie or Candace Owens, and when the media uses this as an opportunity to reignite their agendas against these people, it is just playing right into the killer's hands.

This is why we should stop giving exposure to killers and their motives. There's a discussion to be had about communities like 8chan, gun control, and mental health, but much of the "discussion" is just further polarizing people.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Media is already playing into his hand. BlUe CHecKmaRKs were already blaming Felix and and the likes for '''''radicalizing '''' people.

Im fascinated by these kinds of calculated psychos, though obviously i condone his actions. Even after getting arrested he flashed the OK sign which the media and brainlets take as the white power sign.
The media also portrayed Edward Snowden like he was a traitor but Alex Jones got me into believing the media was lying and taking sides.


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ayy lmao
Media is already playing into his hand. BlUe CHecKmaRKs were already blaming Felix and and the likes for '''''radicalizing '''' people.

Im fascinated by these kinds of calculated psychos, though obviously i condone his actions. Even after getting arrested he flashed the OK sign which the media and brainlets take as the white power sign.
The media also portrayed Edward Snowden like he was a traitor but Alex Jones got me into believing the media was lying and taking sides.
What is your opinion on the hollow moon theory?


 
 
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Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it
Not even once


 
Elai
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Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it, I dont think saying that work makes you hitler.

Not for anything, but this is the kind of thing that makes "the Left" use the term "racist" as much as they do. Do I think you dropping the n-word is the worst thing in the world? No. I wouldn't do it, and I would call you out for it. But it IS racist and """problematic,""" and confronting your own racial prejudice to figure out why you felt so comfortable saying it in the first place is what I would encourage you and anyone else to do if you said it in front of me.

A bit tangental, but I saw the opportunity to try and explain why "the Left" thinks everything and everyone is racist and I took it. It's because many of our social problems are racial.


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Fair, I dont consider myself racist but using a phrase like 'oh shit nigga' is one that can be used in my group from time to time, that being said it has eased up a hell of a lot these past few years. Im comfortable with the phrase, of course you dont say it to just anyone. That being said wasnt aware it wasnt all that uncommon.

And I said it as more of a satirical sense not racial, but this was way back when and we've all become a lot more careful these days.


 
Elai
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Fair, I dont consider myself racist but using a phrase like 'oh shit nigga' is one that can be used in my group from time to time, that being said it has eased up a hell of a lot these past few years. Im comfortable with the phrase, of course you dont say it to just anyone. That being said wasnt aware it wasnt all that uncommon.

And I said it as more of a satirical sense not racial, but this was way back when and we've all become a lot more careful these days.

I'm going to assume that when "you don't just say it to anyone," you choose a certain group of people to avoid specifically. And what I would like you to do is consider why you choose to only use the word when that group is not present.

If you can't use it with everyone, perhaps it's not good to use at all.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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You have to be relentless if you wanna fight and win against the leftists and cultural marxism. Apologizing in front of the media makes you look weak. Innocent until proven guilty is my philosophy.


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Fair, I dont consider myself racist but using a phrase like 'oh shit nigga' is one that can be used in my group from time to time, that being said it has eased up a hell of a lot these past few years. Im comfortable with the phrase, of course you dont say it to just anyone. That being said wasnt aware it wasnt all that uncommon.

And I said it as more of a satirical sense not racial, but this was way back when and we've all become a lot more careful these days.

I'm going to assume that when "you don't just say it to anyone," you choose a certain group of people to avoid specifically. And what I would like you to do is consider why you choose to only use the word when that group is not present.

If you can't use it with everyone, perhaps it's not good to use at all.
Bunch of Australian guys calling each other cunts and stuff over games. Its vulgar language to use as banter, but we know thats not how you talk to people in general public.

Im not gathering people in my shed and preaching if thats what you mean.


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We live in a timeline where we can now watch a schizo maniac shoot up a mosque via a gopro who at the same time tells us to all subscribe to PewDiePie
I would clap if someone blew up the EU HQ.
I know you're just a troll, but you're headed for a permaban with posts like this. Regardless of who the victim is or where the attack is aimed at, I'm not going to tolerate support for terrorist attacks on this forum. You can consider this a final warning.

Can't you already just do it though? What's the point if they're just going to tightrope the line between piece of shit who doesn't break the rules and dumbfuck who does?
I'm not going to make that decision by myself. If enough people decide he's just a troll trying to bait people and offers no discussion value, then sure.

Is there anyone here at all who doesn't feel this way though?


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Now he's just gay
I mean, Pewdiepie has called someone a "fucking nigger", paid people to parade a "death to all jews" sign around, promoted a holocaust denier channel, created a super edgy community rife with racism and sexism that the man himself doesn't say a bad word about.
Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it, I dont think saying that work makes you hitler.

ever since i decided it was completely inappropriate for me to say that word, even in "joking" contexts, it hasnt left my mouth, and its been almost four years now. it really isnt that hard, it only happens if you regularly allow yourself to say such language, and its even worse for pewdiepie considering English isnt even his first language


 
 
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Russian collusion is the biggest conspiracy theory out there. And it's proving to be false and made up.


 
 
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Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
leadership figures within the alt right like Bannon
Bannon is right wing, but is he a white nationalist though? As far as I know, the alt right is defined as being a white identitarian movement.

I see the term alt right thrown around constantly to refer to anyone controversial or prominent on the right, even people like Ben Shapiro who is Jewish and hated by the alt-right. I don't understand how so many people can just casually label various run-of-the-mill conservatives as being white supremacist.


 
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ben shapiro and his ilk are not run of the mill conservatives

there are no relevant run of the mill conservatives

they were blown the fuck out in 2012 (as were the last remnants in 2016) and the alt-right is how they recovered

it's not just about white nationalism, and we already have a term for white nationalists anyway: "white nationalism"
Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 01:23:53 PM by Verbatim


 
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Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 04:33:31 PM by Flee


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
From my understanding the alt-right is defined as being white nationalist by organizations like the ADL and SPLC. If Bannon associated himself with the alt-right then so be it. It just seems so vague as a term to me that it's lost most of its practicality and usefulness in describing people on the right. When you have Jews being labeled as allies to Jew haters, something is amiss in my eyes.

Well for where I live, and the innumerable conservatives that surround me, Ben Shapiro is pretty "run-of-the-mill."
Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 05:04:55 PM by Aether


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Also small update onto the gunman, it appears that hes sacked his lawyer.

So basically hes going to turn the courtroom into a platform for some ridiculous nonsense...or hell he'll spout memes and cause more fingers to be pointed in other directions.

https://www.2gb.com/christchurch-massacre-alleged-gunman-sacks-lawyer-opts-to-represent-himself/
Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 06:35:49 PM by Batch


 
 
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Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 04:31:36 PM by Flee


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I don't think Merkel helped from people radicalizing when she allowed millions of migrants coming to Europe in 2015 from different culture.


Batch | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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So we're unironically using the term incel now?

Alright I get what you're saying Flee, but these are people whose content in mainly political.  I think we got here from Pewdiepie, a guy who keeps almost all of his content either memes or gameplay. Hes said nigger and paid some Asain people to hold up a sign and he got absolutely roasted for it.

I dont see how youre connecting the two. Yes there are far right radical channels out there but Pewds isnt one of them. I feel we're going down an unnecessary rabbit hole now.

We could have a conversation about the radicalization on both sides of the political spectrum. But I feel we could be sliding off topic a bit


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Here are the first 7 comments I found on a Young Turks video from 2 days ago. Literally the second video I happened to click on. Also on the sidebar, there was a Jordan Peterson vs SJW video. You may not be satisfied, because it's not as extensive of digging as yours, but I feel it's all I need. You're saying: "look how terrible these people act in these communities", and yet here is how they act on a far-left youtube channel. It only makes sense to me that these people would cluster more heavily in more right-wing communities. I'm not sure how that makes the content creator at all responsible for them.

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Who are you to say that these people are not genuinely looking for solutions when they bring up gun control, media influencers, radicalization and so on?
When people are talking about gun control, they're looking for solutions; when they try to connect Chelsea Clinton to the tragedy because she said something that pissed them off, they're not. I interpreted Batch's post as criticizing the latter.

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I would never condone any harassment but let's not pretend that a small group (of students) confronting Clinton isn't anything more than just that.
It is when you have thousands of people and big name journalists agreeing with it. Quite frankly, the mob's attacks on free speech is far more concerning to me than anything Pewdiepie has ever done.

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While that might be true for some people, I doubt it's a majority.
They're certainly very loud, regardless.

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Denouncing "the alt right" when you share many of the same views, attack the same people and present a slightly watered down version of what the most notorious voices are saying doesn't mean much.
Like I said, this seems like thought-policing. I don't see what they're supposed to do to change this, other than changing their beliefs. I could post videos of several of the people you mentioned separating themselves from the alt-right, criticizing the Charlottesville rally, criticizing the Great Replacement conspiracy, condemning the attack last Friday, etc. but I'm not sure it would persuade you. If you had specifically mentioned people like Lauren Southern as radicalizing people, I would be with you, but for the people you listed I just don't see the connection.

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I think it's disingenuous to pretend this doesn't happen when people like Bannon and Stormfront have explicitly commented on how useful of a recruitment technique it is.
I looked into this the other day and all I could find was Steve Bannon (allegedly) stating that Gamergate could make an "army" of Trump voters.

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And you and I have some pretty different views on how the "fucking nigger", "death to all jews", Shapiro as a host, promoting a holocaust denier channel and all the other stuff somehow are not politics being reflected in his content.
Context is key. He deleted/apologized for/claimed ignorance for most of those things. I'm not sure how people can genuinely think he's some nazi dogwhistle channel with this in mind. I don't watch Pewdiepie, but from what I've read from his fans, he never gets political aside from these cherrypicked slip ups.

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Let's not pretend this is some unfounded smear campaign against an innocent epic gamer.
It pretty much is. Regardless, it seems like pretty poor taste to start criticizing a youtuber for accidentally saying the n-word in an article that's supposed to be about 50 people losing their lives.

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Your entire position seems kinda contradictory as you both admit that there's a discussion to be had but simultaneously appear to be dismiss any of it actually happening.
I believe there are discussions to be had about the topics I listed in my previous post but I personally disagree with the discussion you're having about holding people accountable that may have little more than some right-wing sympathies (Tim Pool). In my mind the only people connected are the ones that directly sell these ideas and the communities that house them (8chan, Stormfront). Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the connection between Pewdiepie's content and the far-right that can't be explained, and when the media tries to connect him to far-right actions, I do think it's disingenuous.

Sorry if I missed anything.


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This. I watch Felix's videos regularly; these are the only instances of him doing something like this. The "fucking nigger" comment is the last issue he had. He's an entertainer, he shit posts on Youtube for views and that's it, nothing more. Should he have responsibility for what people who are subscribed to him/watch his videos do? I think that's an incredibly unfair question considering entertainers such as Seth McFarland or Mel Brooks have been doing the same thing (and significantly more often than two small cases) for incredibly larger periods of time yet get a free pass. Every time there was an outrage involving them, it was largely silenced under the excuse of "it's just a joke bro" yet Felix isn't allowed that same excuse? What makes him different? Cause he's on Youtube and not TV/Hollywood?

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Context is key. He deleted/apologized for/claimed ignorance for most of those things. I'm not sure how people can genuinely think he's some nazi dogwhistle channel with this in mind. I don't watch Pewdiepie, but from what I've read from his fans, he never gets political aside from these cherrypicked slip ups.