Quote from: Aria on May 31, 2020, 06:36:21 PMQuote from: FatherlyNick on May 31, 2020, 05:41:32 PMThe issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?Not defending the pig's behaviour but Nick does have a point about the prevalence of guns and gun culture in the states. Given how liberal it is for basically anyone and everyone to carry a firearm it would be really silly for the police not to come armed for the potentiality of self preservation.
Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 31, 2020, 05:41:32 PMThe issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?
The issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.
Quote from: Mordo on June 01, 2020, 06:13:15 AMQuote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 31, 2020, 06:36:21 PMQuote from: FatherlyNick on May 31, 2020, 05:41:32 PMThe issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?Not defending the pig's behaviour but Nick does have a point about the prevalence of guns and gun culture in the states. Given how liberal it is for basically anyone and everyone to carry a firearm it would be really silly for the police not to come armed for the potentiality of self preservation.I'm not disagreeing with his point, I'm just piggybacking off of it to make another point. I might be coming off a bit harsher than I mean to in general here, and that's my bad. Police need de-escalation training, not guns. Bringing more vectors of violence into an already tense situation doesn't neutralize the problem, it fuels it.
Quote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 31, 2020, 06:36:21 PMQuote from: FatherlyNick on May 31, 2020, 05:41:32 PMThe issue is further complicated by the fact that everyone is the States is packing heat, (so cops are on edge at all times anyway) and now they are on extra-edge because several states have gone full revolution-mode.So protestors are going to be seen as targets by the police, regardless of their actual threat. Why are they in charge of maintaining the peace again? And given guns?Not defending the pig's behaviour but Nick does have a point about the prevalence of guns and gun culture in the states. Given how liberal it is for basically anyone and everyone to carry a firearm it would be really silly for the police not to come armed for the potentiality of self preservation.
How do you de-escalate a rioting crowd? I think that is the key question here. I doubt there is a right answer. What will end the riots in the US now? Do people even understand what they are rioting about? I think most were just frustrated by all the other things going on at the moment and this riot just happened at the right time.
Ian you really have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
If your biggest concern right now is civil unrest and property damage as a response to state officiated murder then there's not much else to tell you other than that your priorities and moral compass have exited the Earth's atmosphere.
Quote from: Mordo on June 01, 2020, 11:58:30 AMIf your biggest concern right now is civil unrest and property damage as a response to state officiated murder then there's not much else to tell you other than that your priorities and moral compass have exited the Earth's atmosphere.Innocent people are being beaten, shot at, and having their businesses destroyed. You don't believe all of that is somehow necessary do you?
How do you de-escalate a rioting crowd? I think that is the key question here. I doubt there is a right answer.What will end the riots in the US now? Do people even understand what they are rioting about? I think most were just frustrated by all the other things going on at the moment and this riot just happened at the right time.
Quote from: Aether on June 01, 2020, 12:21:38 PMQuote from: Mordo on June 01, 2020, 11:58:30 AMIf your biggest concern right now is civil unrest and property damage as a response to state officiated murder then there's not much else to tell you other than that your priorities and moral compass have exited the Earth's atmosphere.Innocent people are being beaten, shot at, and having their businesses destroyed. You don't believe all of that is somehow necessary do you?Me? I don't. The system has somehow made it necessary. How many times have we been down this road with peaceful protest where nothing changes? Believe me, I'd really like to live in a world where we can kumbaya the problems away by singing John Lennons Imagine but it's a far cry from reality.
Quote from: Mordo on June 01, 2020, 12:31:02 PMQuote from: Aether on June 01, 2020, 12:21:38 PMQuote from: Mordo on June 01, 2020, 11:58:30 AMIf your biggest concern right now is civil unrest and property damage as a response to state officiated murder then there's not much else to tell you other than that your priorities and moral compass have exited the Earth's atmosphere.Innocent people are being beaten, shot at, and having their businesses destroyed. You don't believe all of that is somehow necessary do you?Me? I don't. The system has somehow made it necessary. How many times have we been down this road with peaceful protest where nothing changes? Believe me, I'd really like to live in a world where we can kumbaya the problems away by singing John Lennons Imagine but it's a far cry from reality.Sorry, I don't think hurting innocent people is necessary to fight oppression. I think that's a very dangerous belief seriously lacking in empathy.There's a reason MLK said that, "darkness cannot drive out darkness, only the light can do that." His movement didn't go around singing kumbaya, but they didn't go around hurting people for no reason either, and yet they somehow managed to get the civil rights act enacted and abolish segregation and Jim Crow laws.
A good number of posts on social media still link it to a BLM movement for Goerge Floyd's death, but it appears to have been co-opted by Antifa which is only going to sully the original idea and render it invalid. Regardless, several posts on Twitter last night called for it to move to suburban neighborhoods, that would be an absolutely garbage idea if their intent is to hurt the idea of authoritative power, attacking innocent civilians trying to keep themselves safe at home is a complete contradiction to that. Quote from: FatherlyNick on June 01, 2020, 11:26:35 AMHow do you de-escalate a rioting crowd? I think that is the key question here. I doubt there is a right answer. What will end the riots in the US now? Do people even understand what they are rioting about? I think most were just frustrated by all the other things going on at the moment and this riot just happened at the right time.
There's a reason MLK said that, "darkness cannot drive out darkness, only the light can do that." His movement didn't go around singing kumbaya, but they didn't go around hurting people for no reason either, and yet they somehow managed to get the civil rights act enacted and abolish segregation and Jim Crow laws.
Quote from: Aether on June 01, 2020, 12:48:37 PMThere's a reason MLK said that, "darkness cannot drive out darkness, only the light can do that." His movement didn't go around singing kumbaya, but they didn't go around hurting people for no reason either, and yet they somehow managed to get the civil rights act enacted and abolish segregation and Jim Crow laws.don't forget stopped racism!oh wait he didn't do that because peaceful protests have demonstrably done fuck all to stop racism, fucking whoops
aaaand with these last few posts I hope now you understand why cops bring riot shields and armored vehicles to large, riled-up protests.
Quote from: FatherlyNick on June 01, 2020, 01:25:30 PMaaaand with these last few posts I hope now you understand why cops bring riot shields and armored vehicles to large, riled-up protests.New Zealand, London and Berlin have all been subject to street wide "riled up" emotionally charged protests and been met with no civil disorder.I wonder why that is. I wonder what the common denominator here could be.Oink oink.
And yet racial inequality and systematic discrimination is still a pervasive and ingrained problem that hasn't dissappeared. No one here is positing the notion that innocent lives need to be ruined to see any significant change, at least not seriously. But this instant jump to riots and looting being the main focus of concern, when it's actually a symptom of the rotten system, is a serious misalignment of where the priorities should be.
Quote from: ಠ_ಠ on June 01, 2020, 11:40:51 AMIan you really have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. https://twitter.com/AkaashSingh/status/1266294593697353733>Honestly if you can, burn down white neighborhoods so companies are afraid to move back there. Then after the property value lowers enough, buy the neighborhood mad cheap and rebuild it. This is a real opportunity to flip the gentrification cycle. Excuse me while I find one more so I can fit the definition of "a few"**; unless you're saying this movement isn't about BLM/George Floyd's death at all, which it is; or that Antifa isn't involved, which they are (along with other radical groups). **Edit: There was another Tweet that was trending last night, but the account was removed for violating Twitter's rules.
Are we really trying to pretend that it's just corporations getting destroyed?
>Honestly if you can, burn down white neighborhoods so companies are afraid to move back there. Then after the property value lowers enough, buy the neighborhood mad cheap and rebuild it. This is a real opportunity to flip the gentrification cycle.
Also BLM and ANTIFA aren't a monolith, there are no leaders. That's were the "CEO of ANTIFA" meme comes from, because it demonstrates a ridiculous and complete lack of understanding of how any of this shit actually functions.
Implying it's a bad thing to kick out the corporations that have led us to the economic position we're in now in the first place. Why should I feel bad for predatory companies that value profit margins over human lives?
EDIT: I will respond to the first point in another post now that I see where it coming from. QuoteAlso BLM and ANTIFA aren't a monolith, there are no leaders. That's were the "CEO of ANTIFA" meme comes from, because it demonstrates a ridiculous and complete lack of understanding of how any of this shit actually functions. So any group of people can go in and cause chaos in these riots and wouldn't be manipulative because they didn't organize? I'm not saying that's incorrect, but that's awfully convenient considering how people are complaining on social media about such groups causing damage to the protests validity and that sources are saying BLM groups are organizing.
If by the economic position we're in in the first place? Do you mean the massive unemployment caused by a pandemic? I don't really see how one can blame companies for what a virus did so maybe you mean something else? Quote from: ಠ_ಠ on June 01, 2020, 02:51:50 PMImplying it's a bad thing to kick out the corporations that have led us to the economic position we're in now in the first place. Why should I feel bad for predatory companies that value profit margins over human lives?