John Oliver interviews Edward Snowden

Verbatim · April 09, 2015, 03:19:37 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on April 09, 2015, 03:12:40 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:05:26 PM
Really the only reason that I care about my privacy is the social implications of certain things I may browse or look at online. It's not illegal but it will have a negative effect on how society might view me. There is always a chance that I could be wrong, however I choose not to share that and take a chance.
On the other hand I do agree that if everyone was 100% honest with how they lived and presented themselves as, we wold have no need for this discussion.

This is, honestly, the best and most honest explanation I've seen so far. Thank you.

So, your issue lies with the social implications of what you browse. Okay, so you care about your image. I care about my image, too, to an extent. But if preserving my image means that I have to shield who I truly am to people, then it's not worth it to me. I don't care about the social implications of what I do. I can respect that if someone else might, but personally, I'd rather submit my "true" self to people, so to speak. For better or for worse.

Verbatim · April 09, 2015, 03:24:32 PM

^

That's all you people ever had to say, by the way.
"I care about my personal image, and I feel as though having my privacy violated would compromise how people perceive me."

That's perfectly reasonable.
Just don't go around acting like that reasoning must apply to everyone else. Because it doesn't work for me.

TB · April 09, 2015, 03:24:41 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:19:37 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on April 09, 2015, 03:12:40 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:05:26 PM
Really the only reason that I care about my privacy is the social implications of certain things I may browse or look at online. It's not illegal but it will have a negative effect on how society might view me. There is always a chance that I could be wrong, however I choose not to share that and take a chance.
On the other hand I do agree that if everyone was 100% honest with how they lived and presented themselves as, we wold have no need for this discussion.
This is, honestly, the best and most honest explanation I've seen so far. Thank you.

So, your issue lies with the social implications of what you browse. Okay, so you care about your image. I care about my image, too, to an extent. But if preserving my image means that I have to shield who I truly am to people, then it's not worth it to me. I don't care about the social implications of what I do. I can respect that if someone else might, but personally, I'd rather submit my "true" self to people, so to speak. For better or for worse.

Sounds fair to me.
Actually I applaud you for being able to do that tbh. >.>

More Than Mortal · April 09, 2015, 03:29:26 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 02:52:21 PM

Could it be, perhaps, that there's no logical/rational reason at all? And you're just a scared child?

Yes.

The valuing of privacy is the rational response to the emotional distress that comes from the possibility of its violation.

Verbatim · April 09, 2015, 03:31:49 PM

If only people realized just how relinquishing it is to eschew all such inhibitions.

I should take up Buddhism.

More Than Mortal · April 09, 2015, 03:33:48 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:31:49 PM

I should take up Buddhism.

Why?

Schopenhauerianism is already Buddhism, just without the bullshit metaphysics.

Turkey · April 09, 2015, 03:56:48 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 09, 2015, 03:33:48 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:31:49 PM
I should take up Buddhism.
Why?

Schopenhauerianism is already Buddhism, just without the bullshit metaphysics.

Religion's no fun without metaphysics.

challengerX · April 09, 2015, 04:00:22 PM

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More Than Mortal · April 09, 2015, 04:09:49 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 09, 2015, 03:56:48 PM

Religion's no fun without metaphysics.

All that fucking substance theory, though. Drives me mad.

Flee · April 09, 2015, 04:33:25 PM

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Turkey · April 09, 2015, 04:40:06 PM

Quote from: Flee on April 09, 2015, 04:33:25 PM

One warning has already been issued for insults and personal attacks in this thread. More will follow if this discussion can't continue in a civil matter.

Seems pretty civil right now. Am I missing something?

More Than Mortal · April 09, 2015, 04:42:36 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 09, 2015, 04:40:06 PM

Quote from: Flee on April 09, 2015, 04:33:25 PM
One warning has already been issued for insults and personal attacks in this thread. More will follow if this discussion can't continue in a civil matter.

Seems pretty civil right now. Am I missing something?

Metaphysics, man. Hot topic.

Flee · April 09, 2015, 04:46:52 PM

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Turkey · April 09, 2015, 04:49:41 PM

Quote from: Flee on April 09, 2015, 04:46:52 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 09, 2015, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: Flee on April 09, 2015, 04:33:25 PM
One warning has already been issued for insults and personal attacks in this thread. More will follow if this discussion can't continue in a civil matter.

Seems pretty civil right now. Am I missing something?
Nah, you're right. Things are fine now, but people were going at it pretty hard just a page ago. Plenty of insults being thrown around. This is just a general warning for those people not to start that up again, or they'll both get hit harder this time around. Serious board is for serious discussion with a certain standard of civility. Just briefly reminding everyone of that so that I don't have to whip out the banhammer.

Verbatim · April 09, 2015, 08:47:55 PM

I wouldn't even say anyone was going "pretty hard"--I think in the end, it ended up being an all right, if not a little heated, conversation.

Not Comms Officer · April 09, 2015, 09:01:14 PM

Quote from: Flee on April 09, 2015, 04:33:25 PM

One warning has already been issued for insults and personal attacks in this thread. More will follow if this discussion can't continue in a civil matter.

Oh, what a surprise. Two out of the 3 Flameposting Trio (Verbatim, ANGER, ChallengerX) were involved in said insults and personal attacks...

Verbatim · April 09, 2015, 09:02:19 PM

>flameposting

has anyone ever taken notice to the fact that i never insult anyone unless i get insulted first

aREALgod · April 11, 2015, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 09, 2015, 03:15:19 PM

I wouldn't care if someone wanted to watch me getting a blowjob. That instance is different, though, because I'd also need the okay from whoever's blowing me, as well. But when it comes to solo activities, no, I could have an entire audience of people watching me for my entire life, and I would not give a single fuck.

If someone actually wants to hurt me for whatever reason, that's their issue. That's an issue with mental health. Because you'd have to be fucking mental to actually want to hurt me for anything I have personally done in my life.

I already have. I have no secrets. All of the people I hold dear, all the people in close intimacy with me, and every one of my trusted friends knows practically everything there is to know about me. I wouldn't know where to start with you, because I don't know what a "dark" secret is. I've never really done anything that interesting, either. And even then, there's no proof that I have/have not done any of these things, either, so it seems pretty fruitless, but if you really want me to list things about my life to you, I will.

Yes, yes. EVERYTHING. I've already divulged EVERYTHING. Just because I don't care about my privacy doesn't mean I'm gonna go out of my way to reveal my personal life at every single opportunity. I'm just saying, if there's ever a time when someone asks me an "intimate" or "personal" question, like, "Have you ever wanted to kill yourself?", I will have NO qualms with answering that question. NONE. ZERO. If I had any inclination or reason to do so, I would. It wouldn't bother me at all.
That's not privacy--that's security.

not caring about privacy =/= going out of your way to reveal all personal info

You're pathetic.

AHAHAHAHGA BULL FUCKING SHIT you wouldn't care about someone seeing you in a PRIVATE, INTIMATE MOMENT with a signifcant other. Oh, but you wouldn't know what that's like because you've never touched a girl. It completely changes.

Nah I'm pretty sure if someone really wants to hurt you it DOES become your problem, because if you fail to protect yourself you'll end up dead or hurt. To deny it's problem is arrogance at it's finest.

Yes, do it. Post every detail of your life, indulge every detail. Because unless you do, you're full of shit.

No? Then you're a hypocrite and a coward. Everyone values privacy, even your dumb ass. If you had people observing you your entire there would come a point where you'd wish to have a moment of privacy, away from prying eyes. If you deny this, you're ignorant and stupid.

Actually do you know what security is? Protected PRIVATE information. But since people don't need privacy you don't need to protect your medical records or social security number. Privacy is overrated after all. Be open to the world about everything, I'm sure that will have no negative side effects.

You're an idiot.

Verbatim · April 11, 2015, 07:22:33 PM

Quote from: ANGER on April 11, 2015, 07:19:13 PM

AHAHAHAHGA BULL FUCKING SHIT you wouldn't care about someone seeing you in a PRIVATE, INTIMATE MOMENT with a signifcant other.

If they were also okay with it, there's literally no reason to care. None. Zero.

Quote

Nah I'm pretty sure if someone really wants to hurt you it DOES become your problem, because if you fail to protect yourself you'll end up dead or hurt. To deny it's problem is arrogance at it's finest.

It's not a problem.

Quote

Yes, do it. Post every detail of your life, indulge every detail. Because unless you do, you're full of shit.

I honestly don't know where to begin.

Quote

No? Then you're a hypocrite and a coward. Everyone values privacy, even your dumb ass.

Except I don't.

Quote

Actually do you know what security is? Protected PRIVATE information.

No, it's protecting sensitive information. If I didn't know there were people who would exploit my SSN if I posted it, I would post my SSN. It's not a privacy issue. It's a security issue.

aREALgod · April 11, 2015, 07:26:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 11, 2015, 07:22:33 PM

Quote from: ANGER on April 11, 2015, 07:19:13 PM
AHAHAHAHGA BULL FUCKING SHIT you wouldn't care about someone seeing you in a PRIVATE, INTIMATE MOMENT with a signifcant other.
If they were also okay with it, there's literally no reason to care. None. Zero.
Quote
Nah I'm pretty sure if someone really wants to hurt you it DOES become your problem, because if you fail to protect yourself you'll end up dead or hurt. To deny it's problem is arrogance at it's finest.
It's not a problem.
Quote
Yes, do it. Post every detail of your life, indulge every detail. Because unless you do, you're full of shit.
I honestly don't know where to begin.
Quote
No? Then you're a hypocrite and a coward. Everyone values privacy, even your dumb ass.
Except I don't.
Quote
Actually do you know what security is? Protected PRIVATE information.
No, it's protecting sensitive information. If I didn't know there were people who would exploit my SSN if I posted it, I would post my SSN. It's not a privacy issue. It's a security issue.

Yes, continue lying to yourself.

Yes, it does become your problem. "Sir, this man wants to kill you. You need protection." "LOL NAH IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM" *ends up dead* Still not your problem? You moron.

Start at the beginning, where else would you start?

Except you do. Everyone does, if you think you don't you're lying to yourself.

Sensitive information also falls under protected private information. It all comes back to being private info. There's no twisting the facts on that.

Yu · April 11, 2015, 07:34:26 PM

Heeeey, back on topic, this is unnecessary.

Verbatim · April 11, 2015, 07:36:11 PM

Quote from: ANGER on April 11, 2015, 07:26:07 PM

Yes, continue lying to yourself.

any proof that i'm lying?

Quote

Yes, it does become your problem. "Sir, this man wants to kill you. You need protection." "LOL NAH IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM" *ends up dead* Still not your problem? You moron.

Still not my problem.

The only thing I've ever done that would make someone want to kill me is draw a picture of Muhammad. Every year on Draw Muhammad Day. And if I died, I would be a martyr. It's not a problem. There are things that are more important out there than my life.

Quote

Start at the beginning, where else would you start?

You realize that's literally impossible.

Quote

Except you do. Everyone does, if you think you don't you're lying to yourself.

Nope, I don't. Sorry.

Quote

Sensitive information also falls under protected private information. It all comes back to being private info. There's no twisting the facts on that.

But the only reason I don't want people knowing my SSN is because I know people will use it against me. It's not because I think my SSN is a precious series of numbers that must be kept secret for some arbitrary reason, like your intimate relations with your significant other, or some other stupid petty shit like that.

Verbatim · April 11, 2015, 07:38:10 PM

And they would use it against me in a way that would fuck up my life substantially.

People knowing what I do in the privacy of my bedroom?
That's not going to fuck up my life substantially. It's not going to fuck up my life at all.

Quote from: Yu on April 11, 2015, 07:34:26 PM

Heeeey, back on topic, this is unnecessary.

We are on topic. Discussion of Edward Snowden begets discussion of privacy.

Mr. Psychologist · April 11, 2015, 07:41:15 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 11, 2015, 07:38:10 PM

And they would use it against me in a way that would fuck up my life substantially.

People knowing what I do in the privacy of my bedroom?
That's not going to fuck up my life substantially. It's not going to fuck up my life at all.

Quote from: Yu on April 11, 2015, 07:34:26 PM
Heeeey, back on topic, this is unnecessary.
We are on topic. Discussion of Edward Snowden begets discussion of privacy.

He's referring to some of the more unnecessary flaming going on in the middle of the privacy discussion. It's a good conversation, but there are a few too many instances of mudslinging here.

Verbatim · April 11, 2015, 07:52:58 PM

And I just want to make this clear, too--he keeps mentioning the intimate relationship thing, which is sort of cheating the argument, because privacy should be a discussion of individual rights. So it's a cheap argument to say, "Oh, you'd be okay if people were watching you have sex!?"

Allow me to just stress that, in a relationship, everything should operate by consent. If my hypothetical girlfriend took umbrage to the idea of being watched during sex or whatever the fuck, then I take issue with it, as well. But only on her behalf. I'll protect her right to privacy, but as for mine? Again, I just don't see any good reason to care, because I've never done anything heinous in my life.

But if my partner still honestly cared about her privacy, I would respect that.

Unless she ALSO happened to not give a fuck.

Juuzou · April 11, 2015, 07:56:52 PM

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