Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Anger, the 4th Amendment prohibits unnecessary search and seizure and states that a warrant must be served by a judicial court with probable cause. The NSA can't decrypt and view the contents of a hypothetical  piece of data until they've gone to court with documentation leading them to believe it holds value relative to illegal/terrorist activity.

The Patriot Act doesn't violate the 4th Amendment. I don't like it either, but it isn't illegal.

Quote from: ANGER on April 07, 2015, 01:10:16 AM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 05:09:15 PM

Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Well, I am arguing with a wall. What the NSA does is a violation of 4th Amendment rights, and if you deny that you're absolutely ignorant and certainly blindly defending an illegal action.

LOL

Hi Chally.

Quote from: ANGER on April 07, 2015, 01:10:16 AM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 05:09:15 PM

Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Well, I am arguing with a wall. What the NSA does is a violation of 4th Amendment rights, and if you deny that you're absolutely ignorant and certainly blindly defending an illegal action.

LOL

I don't see what's funny, the trespassing of our rights is not a laughing matter.

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 05:09:15 PM

Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Well, I am arguing with a wall. What the NSA does is a violation of 4th Amendment rights, and if you deny that you're absolutely ignorant and certainly blindly defending an illegal action.

I deny it because the NSA has to go through a court to obtain a warrant stating that there's sufficient evidence of a link to a terrorist network in order to actually see the data. This is the same process the police have to go through, with much less corroborating evidence, to do wire taps.

Anger, the 4th Amendment prohibits unnecessary search and seizure and states that a warrant must be served by a judicial court with probable cause. The NSA can't decrypt and view the contents of a hypothetical  piece of data until they've gone to court with documentation leading them to believe it holds value relative to illegal/terrorist activity.

The Patriot Act doesn't violate the 4th Amendment. I don't like it either, but it isn't illegal.

Either way, I feel like it's prudent to stress that the Constitution is by no means infallible, so to use it as a trump card in argumentation is asinine, anyway.

It's not that it's infallible, it's a part of our law that we cannot change or override.

As you very well know, we've changed and overridden laws before, so, you already know that that's false. It's not that we can't change it--it's that we won't change it. Since the 4th amendment gives us rights, it's kind of difficult to be against it. And it's not even that I'm against it. I just don't want it and I don't need it. I'm apathetic--I invite every cop in the US to search my house without a warrant. By all means, violate my privacy.

If there was a 28th amendment that stated that Verbatim is entitled to a Twinkie, do you think I'd be all up in arms if someone denied me my Twinkie? ...Maybe a little bit. But I'm not gonna act like it's this travesty just because it was a constitutional amendment that was in violation. That's how little I give a fuck about my 4th amendment rights. Take 'em away, for all I care.

Quote from: Prime Meridia on April 07, 2015, 09:55:36 AM

It's not that it's infallible, it's a part of our law that we cannot change or override.

As you very well know, we've changed and overridden laws before, so, you already know that that's false.

That's right, my bad there; but the point I was trying to make is still there. It's not that it's infallible, it's a law contradicting a long held law. At the very least, this would require the supreme court to overlook it and decide to either:

1) Repeal the new law.
2) Add another amendment to the constitution revoking the 4th.

To note, I'm not saying that the Patriot Act is against the constitution. I'm just trying to explain why mentioning the constitution is one way to argue a law to be repealed.

Quote from: ANGER on April 07, 2015, 01:10:16 AM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 05:09:15 PM

Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Well, I am arguing with a wall. What the NSA does is a violation of 4th Amendment rights, and if you deny that you're absolutely ignorant and certainly blindly defending an illegal action.

I deny it because the NSA has to go through a court to obtain a warrant stating that there's sufficient evidence of a link to a terrorist network in order to actually see the data. This is the same process the police have to go through, with much less corroborating evidence, to do wire taps.

And you're actually going to take the government's word for it that they do that? You're just fine with the government having something with so much potential power? Information is power, and that's what they get through this. No government should be so blindly trusted with something this substantial, ever.

That justin bieber bit tho.
Its nice to be reminded that there is no hope for humanity.

YouTube

Snowden seems so chill. It's a shame he committed one of the largest classified intelligence leaks in history and will likely be charged with treason, because I'd watch his YouTube channel talking about cyber news and tips.

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 01:25:28 PM

Yeah, he should be a hero for leaking evidence of perfectly legal activities that have been known about, and reported on, since the PATRIOT Act was instituted, in addition to leaking information on active overseas surveillance programs that demonstrably aided the enemy, hindering intelligence operations and likely putting American and allied personnel at risk.

What a fucking joke.

You do know that the Patriot Act is illegal, right?

Unconstitutional or not, like it or not, the PATRIOT Act is the law of the land, unfortunately.

Quote from: Mad Max on April 09, 2015, 12:22:12 PM

Quote from: Noëlle on April 09, 2015, 12:13:44 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 01:25:28 PM

Yeah, he should be a hero for leaking evidence of perfectly legal activities that have been known about, and reported on, since the PATRIOT Act was instituted, in addition to leaking information on active overseas surveillance programs that demonstrably aided the enemy, hindering intelligence operations and likely putting American and allied personnel at risk.

What a fucking joke.

You do know that the Patriot Act is illegal, right?

Unconstitutional or not, like it or not, the PATRIOT Act is the law of the land, unfortunately.

The Constitution is the law of the land, actually. Any illegal law can be disobeyed, just like any unlawful order in the military can be disobeyed.

Camnator, is that you?

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 01:25:28 PM

Yeah, he should be a hero for leaking evidence of perfectly legal activities that have been known about, and reported on, since the PATRIOT Act was instituted, in addition to leaking information on active overseas surveillance programs that demonstrably aided the enemy, hindering intelligence operations and likely putting American and allied personnel at risk.

What a fucking joke.

You do know that the Patriot Act is illegal, right?

My, my, how lucky we are to have an associate justice grace the forum.

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 06, 2015, 05:09:15 PM

Anger, present an argument about why it's wrong. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong, I'm right" over and over.

Well, I am arguing with a wall. What the NSA does is a violation of 4th Amendment rights, and if you deny that you're absolutely ignorant and certainly blindly defending an illegal action.

Anyone can follow your car around and see where you go.  They can't see what's in your car or what you're doing at the destinations.  To do that they need a warrant.

The NSA's methods of data collection are virtually the same in the context of the world-wide web.  They follow traffic around and if they find something suspicious they get a warrant.