Is transgenderism a mental disorder?

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:01:01 PM

Let the games begin!

Mr. Psychologist · September 14, 2014, 05:02:26 PM

Spoiler

It's funny because this is supposed to be me not taking part ITT, but it also works for the answer I would give.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:04:07 PM

Can you just briefly explain why you think it isn't?

You are the psychological authority here, after all.

PSU · September 14, 2014, 05:04:56 PM

In my opinion? Yes.

Yes it is.

Mr. Psychologist · September 14, 2014, 05:05:50 PM

Hmmmmmmmm

I will tomorrow <.<

If this thread is still unlocked that is >.>

I'm a bit too tired to do anything with any detail tonight. If it is locked I'll PM it to ya instead.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 14, 2014, 05:05:54 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Mad Max · September 14, 2014, 05:10:31 PM

By definition, no.

The incongruity between gender and body that transgender people experience [gender dysphoria] is, however.

Kinder Graham · September 14, 2014, 05:12:16 PM

Challenger thinks it is

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:14:16 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 14, 2014, 05:12:16 PM

Challenger thinks it is

September 14, 2014, 05:14:27 PM

Yes, it objectively is. Imbalanced hormones cause a literal disorder in your brain, making you think that you're a sex that you actually aren't.

Sandtrap · September 14, 2014, 05:18:27 PM

It could very well be a "disorder." Our brains are complicated things, and you switch one set of wires for another, and you get something different.

But, now I ask, does it really matter? Let's just assume it's a disorder. Compared to most other disorders, it's pretty damn mild isn't it? Trans gendered folks aren't overly aggressive, or psychotic, or wired with self destructive neural patterns by nature. All it is, is the association with what sex they are.

And, on that last note, who really cares? People modify their bodies all the time. Piercings. Tattoos. Prosthetics. Fuck, if things keep going eventually, we'll have fully functioning cyborgs.

Is wanting to modify and shift your body from one sex to another really so wrong, when compared to all the other things I mentioned? People can cover their entire bodies in tattoos, making themselves works of art or horror shows. Piercings emulate this as well. Prosthetics replace body parts that are missing. And eventually, Humankind will begin lobbing off body parts willingly for synthetic ones.

It'll be a pretty fucking sad day when and if trans-gendered folks have such stigmas against them and at the same time, we have people lobbing off body parts for machine ones.

In the end, all it comes down to, is it your business anyway? Who the fuck cares what others wish to do with their bodies?

So, yes, it may be a disorder. But is it a big issue, let alone one at all? No.

September 14, 2014, 05:20:42 PM

Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:17:57 PM

*sigh*
No, it's not.

Quote
The organization responsible for defining what is and is not a psychiatric disorder, the American Psychiatric Association, has this to say about the matter (via the DSM-5):

It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.

In short, the people who wrote the definition of "psychiatric disorder" categorically reject the statement that a transgender identity is intrinsically disordered.

Thanks for proving me right. And anyway, just because some association says it's so, doesn't make it so.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:20:43 PM

Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:17:57 PM

>DSM-5
>lol

Mad Max · September 14, 2014, 05:22:29 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:20:43 PM

Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:17:57 PM
>DSM-5
>lol

Why even bother posting in Serious about a serious topic if you're just going to dismiss arguments?

Is there another prevailing argument that doesn't align with the APA, but supported by research?

challengerX · September 14, 2014, 05:22:54 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:24:52 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:22:29 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:20:43 PM
Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:17:57 PM
>DSM-5
>lol
Why even bother posting in Serious about a serious topic if you're just going to dismiss arguments?

Is there another prevailing argument that doesn't align with the APA, but supported by research?

I'm not dismissing his argument, I'm criticising his source. The DSM-5 is a joke.

I agree with the notion that transgendered identity isn't a disorder.

God · September 14, 2014, 05:25:06 PM

Disorder is a technical term for conditions percieved as having a negative effect, defined by the field.
So no it is not a disorder because it isn't defined as one by psychologists. The proper question for what I think you are really trying to ask is "Should it be a disorder?"

Solonoid · September 14, 2014, 05:25:11 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:14:27 PM

Yes, it objectively is. Imbalanced hormones cause a literal disorder in your brain, making you think that you're a sex that you actually aren't.

Class' favourite word today: "Objectively"

September 14, 2014, 05:25:44 PM

Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:22:22 PM

Please explain how I could possibly be proving you right.

It said that gender nonconformity isn't in and of itself a mental disorder, and implied that actual gender dysphoria is. Ana again, just because you linked a psychiatric article, doesn't make that article automatically correct.

Mad Max · September 14, 2014, 05:25:58 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:24:52 PM

The DSM-5 is a joke.

Why?

September 14, 2014, 05:26:07 PM

Quote from: Solonoid on September 14, 2014, 05:25:11 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:14:27 PM
Yes, it objectively is. Imbalanced hormones cause a literal disorder in your brain, making you think that you're a sex that you actually aren't.
Class' favourite word today: "Objectively"

That's my favorite word every day, along with "literally".

Mad Max · September 14, 2014, 05:27:09 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:25:44 PM

Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:22:22 PM
Please explain how I could possibly be proving you right.
It said that gender nonconformity isn't in and of itself a mental disorder, and implied that actual gender dysphoria is.

..which means it doesn't support your argument. Transgenderism and gender dysphoria are not the same thing.

September 14, 2014, 05:29:00 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:27:09 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:25:44 PM
Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:22:22 PM
Please explain how I could possibly be proving you right.
It said that gender nonconformity isn't in and of itself a mental disorder, and implied that actual gender dysphoria is.
..which means it doesn't support your argument. Transgenderism and gender dysphoria are not the same thing.

Gender dysphoria means that you think you're the opposite gender than what you really are. Transgenderism is following through with that delusion and changing your gender. Not the same thing, but definitely linked. It's worth noting that transgenderism is rooted in a certified mental disorder.

Mad Max · September 14, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:29:00 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:25:44 PM
Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:22:22 PM
Please explain how I could possibly be proving you right.
It said that gender nonconformity isn't in and of itself a mental disorder, and implied that actual gender dysphoria is.
..which means it doesn't support your argument. Transgenderism and gender dysphoria are not the same thing.
Gender dysphoria means that you think you're the opposite gender than what you really are.

No, that's transgender. You don't have to "follow through" with anything to be trans.

I'll ignore the "what you really are" part since it's retarded.

challengerX · September 14, 2014, 05:32:47 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

September 14, 2014, 05:33:06 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:29:00 PM
Gender dysphoria means that you think you're the opposite gender than what you really are.
No, that's transgender.

No, that's gender dysphoria:

Quote

Gender identity disorder (GID) or gender dysphoria is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (discontent) with the sex they were assigned at birth and/or the gender roles associated with that sex. Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones.

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

I'll ignore the "what you really are" part since it's retarded.

And how is that retarded? If you're born with a penis, you're a man. If you're born with a vagina, you're a woman. Not that hard to understand.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 05:33:13 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:25:58 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
The DSM-5 is a joke.
Why?

Oh God. It's hard to explain if you're not into psychology; Mr P would probably do a better job.

It's just. . . Just a fucking mess, to be honest.

Verbatim · September 14, 2014, 05:33:19 PM

Going by proper delineation of what constitutes a mental disorder, yes, I would argue that even homosexuality is a mental disorder.

But that doesn't make it bad, wrong, "lesser", or more disgusting than any other sexual orientation/gender identification (indeed, I think they're all equally useless and disgusting).

It just means something went awry during the whole genetic makeup process, or something like that. I'm not a neuroscientist. Overall, it's entirely inconsequential and a complete non-issue to anyone of rational tutelage.

challengerX · September 14, 2014, 05:34:14 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

September 14, 2014, 05:34:21 PM

(double post}