Free speech isn't fucking free speech if certain opinions aren't allowed. To say that you're not allowed to believe in ISIS's cause is ridiculous. Acting on it is completely different.

If I want to walk down main street wearing a KKK uniform and holding up a sign that advocates murdering black people, I should have every legal right to do so. Just as you'd have every right to yell and berate me for it.

Certain opinions (vocalizing) aren't allowed already.

And the KKK should have no legal right to preach hatred. Shit like that just inflames the already tense interracial relations in the US.

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:24:31 PM

Free speech isn't fucking free speech if certain opinions aren't allowed. To say that you're not allowed to believe in ISIS's cause is ridiculous. Acting on it is completely different.

If I want to walk down main street wearing a KKK uniform and holding up a sign that advocates murdering black people, I should have every legal right to do so. Just as you'd have every right to yell and berate me for it.

Certain opinions (vocalizing) aren't allowed already.

And the KKK should have no legal right to preach hatred. Shit like that just inflames the already tense interracial relations in the US.

Maybe in the backwards ass UK, but not here.

And yes, they should have every legal right to preach whatever they want. Acting on them is completely different.

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:48:53 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 04:47:32 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:24:31 PM

Free speech isn't fucking free speech if certain opinions aren't allowed. To say that you're not allowed to believe in ISIS's cause is ridiculous. Acting on it is completely different.

If I want to walk down main street wearing a KKK uniform and holding up a sign that advocates murdering black people, I should have every legal right to do so. Just as you'd have every right to yell and berate me for it.

Certain opinions (vocalizing) aren't allowed already.

And the KKK should have no legal right to preach hatred. Shit like that just inflames the already tense interracial relations in the US.

Maybe in the backwards ass UK, but not here.

And yes, they should have every legal right to preach whatever they want. Acting on them is completely different.

They do act on them.

So every single member of the KKK assaults black people?

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 04:47:32 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:24:31 PM

Free speech isn't fucking free speech if certain opinions aren't allowed. To say that you're not allowed to believe in ISIS's cause is ridiculous. Acting on it is completely different.

If I want to walk down main street wearing a KKK uniform and holding up a sign that advocates murdering black people, I should have every legal right to do so. Just as you'd have every right to yell and berate me for it.

Certain opinions (vocalizing) aren't allowed already.

And the KKK should have no legal right to preach hatred. Shit like that just inflames the already tense interracial relations in the US.

Maybe in the backwards ass UK, but not here.

And yes, they should have every legal right to preach whatever they want. Acting on them is completely different.

Yes, here.

Most of the people in the KKK are fucking retards. If their Grand Wizard or whoever the fuck demands that they kill X number of blacks, and then X number of blacks are killed by the KKK...

That's not free speech, that's practically contract killing.

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 04:51:51 PM

How about we arrest them for being criminals.

Nonviolently expressing your opinion isn't a criminal act. You have this childish mindset of "OMG EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER WHO SUPPORTS ISIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY MURDER SOME1". It's dumb. Sure, 50% of those protesters are probably murderers, but that's a completely different crime. You're treating expression and protesting in and of itself as breaking the law.

Nobody is saying that every single supporter of X will kill somebody except for you. And you clearly haven't even read either of our posts, or else you wouldn't immediately be posting your ideological crap.

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:54:47 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 04:51:51 PM

How about we arrest them for being criminals.

Nonviolently expressing your opinion isn't a criminal act. You have this childish mindset of "OMG EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER WHO SUPPORTS ISIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY MURDER SOME1". It's dumb. Sure, 50% of those protesters are probably murderers, but that's a completely different crime. You're treating expression and protesting in and of itself as breaking the law.

Nobody is saying that every single supporter of X will kill somebody except for you. And you clearly haven't even read either of our posts, or else you wouldn't immediately be posting your ideological crap.

The point is that freedom of expression is the absolute pinnacle of any society's goals. Stripping it down just to catch more members of a group that will be gone in ten years anyway is a travesty.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 04:56:51 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:54:47 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 04:51:51 PM

How about we arrest them for being criminals.

Nonviolently expressing your opinion isn't a criminal act. You have this childish mindset of "OMG EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER WHO SUPPORTS ISIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY MURDER SOME1". It's dumb. Sure, 50% of those protesters are probably murderers, but that's a completely different crime. You're treating expression and protesting in and of itself as breaking the law.

Nobody is saying that every single supporter of X will kill somebody except for you. And you clearly haven't even read either of our posts, or else you wouldn't immediately be posting your ideological crap.

The point is that freedom of expression is the absolute pinnacle of a society's goals. Stripping it down just to catch more members of a group that will be gone in ten years anyway is a travesty.

There are limits to that. Like for when you're literally preaching for people of your same sect to kill others.

Like even now, you're not allowed to preach for assassinating the President regardless of whether the threat is credible or not. So why not extend that protection to vulnerable minorities?

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 05:00:58 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:59:31 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 04:56:51 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 04:54:47 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 04:51:51 PM

How about we arrest them for being criminals.

Nonviolently expressing your opinion isn't a criminal act. You have this childish mindset of "OMG EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER WHO SUPPORTS ISIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY MURDER SOME1". It's dumb. Sure, 50% of those protesters are probably murderers, but that's a completely different crime. You're treating expression and protesting in and of itself as breaking the law.

Nobody is saying that every single supporter of X will kill somebody except for you. And you clearly haven't even read either of our posts, or else you wouldn't immediately be posting your ideological crap.

The point is that freedom of expression is the absolute pinnacle of a society's goals. Stripping it down just to catch more members of a group that will be gone in ten years anyway is a travesty.

Oh of course, a group that's been around for decades and is doing extremely well will be gone in 10 years. We should just wait it out like a bunch of pussy hippies. Fuck saving innocent lives.

No, we should fucking steamroll the Middle East with some kind of collective force of 500,000 soldiers, wipe out ISIS, and leave. The problem with the Iraq War was that we stuck around to "rebuild" the country. I've been saying this for years. We just need to eliminate the majority of the group and get out of there, not impose restrictions to freedom of speech for no reason.

Okay, let's go on a trillion-dollar mass murdering rampage through a volatile region rather than imposing some sensible limits on preaching hatred. That's such a smart idea!!!!!!

I think it's safe to say that SecondClass's prostate has been turned into a gooey mess.

The UK Polling Report shows that back in 2006, 78pc of British Muslims polled believed that Kurt Westegaard--the Danish guy who drew pictures of Mohammed--should've been prosecuted, with 68pc thinking those who insult Islam should be prosecuted.

CBS News, also back in 2006, reported that 25pc of British Muslims supported the 7/7 bombers. And Pew has weighed in on the issue, showing that 24pc of British Muslims think suicide bombing is justified, with a further 15pc saying it is sometimes justified. Worryingly, this rises to 35pc and 19pc for Muslims aged 18-29. That's 54pc of 18-29yo Muslims who feel that suicide bombing is at least sometimes justified.

Civitas tell us that 33pc of Muslims believe apostates should be killed, and 28pc want Britain to be an Islamic state. And a different Pew study showed that just 7pc of Muslims in Britain think of themselves as British first, with 81pc explicitly thinking of themselves as Muslim first.

Are there any statistics on where Muslims that migrate to Western nations tend to come from?

Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 05:24:35 PM

Quote from: Maverick on April 07, 2015, 05:17:19 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on April 04, 2015, 02:40:42 PM

The UK Polling Report shows that back in 2006, 78pc of British Muslims polled believed that Kurt Westegaard--the Danish guy who drew pictures of Mohammed--should've been prosecuted, with 68pc thinking those who insult Islam should be prosecuted.

CBS News, also back in 2006, reported that 25pc of British Muslims supported the 7/7 bombers. And Pew has weighed in on the issue, showing that 24pc of British Muslims think suicide bombing is justified, with a further 15pc saying it is sometimes justified. Worryingly, this rises to 35pc and 19pc for Muslims aged 18-29. That's 54pc of 18-29yo Muslims who feel that suicide bombing is at least sometimes justified.

Civitas tell us that 33pc of Muslims believe apostates should be killed, and 28pc want Britain to be an Islamic state. And a different Pew study showed that just 7pc of Muslims in Britain think of themselves as British first, with 81pc explicitly thinking of themselves as Muslim first.

Are there any statistics on where Muslims that migrate to Western nations tend to come from?

Muslim nations?

Which nations specifically.

Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Egypt mainly.

The problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics. This isn't even about ISIS, it's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.

Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PM

The problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics. This isn't even about ISIS, it's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.

"Human code"

The fuck sort of shit you talking about?

The basic moral laws that civilizations (good ones, at least) strive for. Most of it was established in culturally advanced societies like Rome and England.

Pretty standard concept, don't really see what you're not picking up on.