And that's not okay.

If you claim you'd save the child, you should be doing something about it then.

Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 03:55:54 PM

And that's not okay.

If you claim you'd save the child, you should be doing something about it then.

If I had every chance to do so, I would.

Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:00:28 PM

I don't resources or the opportunity or anything necessary to stop it.

That's obviously not true. Alan Henning, the taxi-driver beheaded by ISIS, went with a volunteer aid group. You don't need resources to make an effort.

You have two choices. You either admit to yourself that it's a matter of convenience, not principle. Or you sign up and do something.

And why can't it be both? I would if I could. And i can't. I'm not going to do what he did because that obviously didn't work out too well for him or anyone else.

And don't think I haven't helped anyone before.

Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:17:30 PM

And why can't it be both? I would if I could. And i can't. I'm not going to do what he did because that obviously didn't work out too well for him or anyone else.

If you claim that you'd help the child, but won't pursue such work in our world - it's a matter of convenience, not morality. It's something to be done wherever it doesn't conflict with other pursuits and interests.

But I do pursue that work. I volunteer a lot. And I plan to do a lot more once I have the money. You can't just do these things, you need funds. I mean yeah sure you can but it would make things even better if I had proper resources. And I'm working up to that.

I need to help myself firs before ibcan help everyone else to the fullest capability.

So than yeah sure it is convenience. But only because I would be a lot more helpful if  I had better resources.

Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:40:21 PM

But I do pursue that work. I volunteer a lot. And I plan to do a lot more once I have the money.

How much money do you need to volunteer with an aid organisation?

You don't need any.

But a good, steady paycheck to help with funding would make it all the better.

Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:45:11 PM

You don't need any.

So, it is really a matter of convenience then.

More of a matter of appropriation.

I see this thread has simply ended up going in circles.

Questions of morality tend to do that.

Has anyone here ever read the book The Brothers Karamazov? It deals with exactly what is being talked about. The following quote is a conversation from the book between the brothers Ivan, a rational atheist, and Alyosha, a Russian Orthodox monk. It centers around the unjust suffering of innocents (namely children). It also comes from the chapter preceding the famous The Grand Inquisitor parable.

Quote

"...It's not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just most respectfully return him the ticket."
"That is rebellion," Alyosha said softly, dropping his eyes.
"Rebellion? I don't like hearing such a word from you," Ivan said with feeling. "One cannot live by rebellion, and I want to live. Tell me straight out, I call on you- answer me: imagine that you yourself are building the edifice of human destiny with the object of making people happy in the finale, of giving them peace and rest at last, but for that you must inevitably and unavoidably torture just one tiny creature, that same child who was beating her chest with her little fist, and raise your edifice on the foundation of her unrequited tears- would you agree to be the architect on such conditions? Tell me the truth."
"No, I would not agree," Alyosha said softly.
"And can you admit the idea that the people for whom you are building would agree to accept their happiness on the unjustified blood of a tortured child, and having accepted it, to remain forever happy?"
"No, I cannot admit it." Alyosha said.

Very interesting, I'll have to pick up that book one day

The needs of the thousands of lives are a heavy burden for the child, I would try relieve some of that burden somehow, maybe by swapping places with him for a while, make it easier on him so the utopia can live on while the kid finally gets some proper rest and care for his wounds.

So why would the kid ensure the safety and utopia?

It's a metaphor for our own society. We live in relative wealth and happiness though that prosperity was built on the backs of slaves and mistreated migrant workers; our technology is made by slaves and child workers; we relegate the worst jobs to the poor and the uneducated, often immigrants with no hope of improvement, then criminalize them for their existence. The fact is that we're happy largely as an indirect result of someone else's suffering.

I would try relieve some of that burden somehow, maybe by swapping places with him for a while, make it easier on him so the utopia can live on while the kid finally gets some proper rest and care for his wounds.

That's noble, and I actually suggested that as an alternative in the class we studied this in --  implement a system where each citizen takes turns. No, the entire premise is founded on the idea that any mercy to the child, even death, destroys the entire city.

Many > One

I usually dislike being so cursory about stuff like this, but I really think it's that simple of a dilemma. I can only hope that the child knows why he must live in squalor.

Quote from: Verbatim on December 07, 2014, 02:39:19 PM

Many > One

I usually dislike being so cursory about stuff like this, but I really think it's that simple of a dilemma. I can only hope that the child knows why he must live in squalor.

If I were to make an assumption, I'd say the child doesn't know why. If he or she knows, then the child might take solace in the fact that it's for the good of many.

If they don't know why, then why would they care? Presuming it's all they've known, they likely can't even imagine a life outside the one they have much like how people who live in 3rd world countries are complacent not having cities (I mean those such as tribes and shit. Not just poverty) because they don't know or imagine anything better than what they have.

It's worth it

I'd volunteer for that spot 

Quote from: D4C on December 07, 2014, 03:37:23 PM

If the kid knows why, he or she could become happy

No, they couldn't.

Are you implying that there is no possibility that someone could be content with cruelty if they are guaranteed that they're supporting utopian conditions? I'm not saying that it would be a guarantee, just that it would likely be thought of by the masterminds of the scenario.