And that's not okay.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 06, 2014, 03:25:10 PMBut there are far worse.That's no excuse. I'm not talking exclusively about child labour. The fact that there is a spectrum, or gradation, of suffering doesn't excuse inaction. Like I say, if people are saying they'd save the child and forsake the city on principle then they should be out there, doing something about the suffering in the world. If a taxi driver can go to Syria and, unfortunately, fall hands to ISIS in his efforts then he is living proof that I) an effort can be made and II) more effort should be made. You don't ignore the cancer because you have a stab wound.
But there are far worse.
Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 03:55:54 PMAnd that's not okay.If you claim you'd save the child, you should be doing something about it then.
I don't resources or the opportunity or anything necessary to stop it.
Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:00:28 PMI don't resources or the opportunity or anything necessary to stop it.That's obviously not true. Alan Henning, the taxi-driver beheaded by ISIS, went with a volunteer aid group. You don't need resources to make an effort. You have two choices. You either admit to yourself that it's a matter of convenience, not principle. Or you sign up and do something.
And why can't it be both? I would if I could. And i can't. I'm not going to do what he did because that obviously didn't work out too well for him or anyone else.
Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:17:30 PMAnd why can't it be both? I would if I could. And i can't. I'm not going to do what he did because that obviously didn't work out too well for him or anyone else.If you claim that you'd help the child, but won't pursue such work in our world - it's a matter of convenience, not morality. It's something to be done wherever it doesn't conflict with other pursuits and interests.
But I do pursue that work. I volunteer a lot. And I plan to do a lot more once I have the money.
Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:40:21 PMBut I do pursue that work. I volunteer a lot. And I plan to do a lot more once I have the money.How much money do you need to volunteer with an aid organisation?
You don't need any.
Quote from: Lord Ruler on December 06, 2014, 04:45:11 PMYou don't need any.So, it is really a matter of convenience then.
I see this thread has simply ended up going in circles.
Has anyone here ever read the book The Brothers Karamazov? It deals with exactly what is being talked about. The following quote is a conversation from the book between the brothers Ivan, a rational atheist, and Alyosha, a Russian Orthodox monk. It centers around the unjust suffering of innocents (namely children). It also comes from the chapter preceding the famous The Grand Inquisitor parable.Quote"...It's not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just most respectfully return him the ticket.""That is rebellion," Alyosha said softly, dropping his eyes."Rebellion? I don't like hearing such a word from you," Ivan said with feeling. "One cannot live by rebellion, and I want to live. Tell me straight out, I call on you- answer me: imagine that you yourself are building the edifice of human destiny with the object of making people happy in the finale, of giving them peace and rest at last, but for that you must inevitably and unavoidably torture just one tiny creature, that same child who was beating her chest with her little fist, and raise your edifice on the foundation of her unrequited tears- would you agree to be the architect on such conditions? Tell me the truth.""No, I would not agree," Alyosha said softly."And can you admit the idea that the people for whom you are building would agree to accept their happiness on the unjustified blood of a tortured child, and having accepted it, to remain forever happy?""No, I cannot admit it." Alyosha said.
"...It's not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just most respectfully return him the ticket.""That is rebellion," Alyosha said softly, dropping his eyes."Rebellion? I don't like hearing such a word from you," Ivan said with feeling. "One cannot live by rebellion, and I want to live. Tell me straight out, I call on you- answer me: imagine that you yourself are building the edifice of human destiny with the object of making people happy in the finale, of giving them peace and rest at last, but for that you must inevitably and unavoidably torture just one tiny creature, that same child who was beating her chest with her little fist, and raise your edifice on the foundation of her unrequited tears- would you agree to be the architect on such conditions? Tell me the truth.""No, I would not agree," Alyosha said softly."And can you admit the idea that the people for whom you are building would agree to accept their happiness on the unjustified blood of a tortured child, and having accepted it, to remain forever happy?""No, I cannot admit it." Alyosha said.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 06, 2014, 06:20:06 PMI see this thread has simply ended up going in circles.Questions of morality tend to do that.
So why would the kid ensure the safety and utopia?
I would try relieve some of that burden somehow, maybe by swapping places with him for a while, make it easier on him so the utopia can live on while the kid finally gets some proper rest and care for his wounds.
Many > OneI usually dislike being so cursory about stuff like this, but I really think it's that simple of a dilemma. I can only hope that the child knows why he must live in squalor.
Quote from: Verbatim on December 07, 2014, 02:39:19 PMMany > OneI usually dislike being so cursory about stuff like this, but I really think it's that simple of a dilemma. I can only hope that the child knows why he must live in squalor.If I were to make an assumption, I'd say the child doesn't know why. If he or she knows, then the child might take solace in the fact that it's for the good of many.
Quote from: D4C on December 07, 2014, 02:56:29 PMQuote from: Verbatim on December 07, 2014, 02:39:19 PMMany > OneI usually dislike being so cursory about stuff like this, but I really think it's that simple of a dilemma. I can only hope that the child knows why he must live in squalor.If I were to make an assumption, I'd say the child doesn't know why. If he or she knows, then the child might take solace in the fact that it's for the good of many.If they don't know why, then why would they care? Presuming it's all they've known, they likely can't even imagine a life outside the one they have much like how people who live in 3rd world countries are complacent not having cities (I mean those such as tribes and shit. Not just poverty) because they don't know or imagine anything better than what they have.
If the kid knows why, he or she could become happy
Quote from: D4C on December 07, 2014, 03:37:23 PMIf the kid knows why, he or she could become happy No, they couldn't.