Quote from: Luciana on February 25, 2015, 01:42:53 AM

Yeah but he said not want to have kids, so... why? That makes no sense. Unless the rumors I heard about Verb thinking humans having kids is... weird or something. Which is more or less daft, so I refuse to believe he actually thinks that without at least hearing his reason.

Aren't women hotwired to want to kids, at least much more so than men? Well, good luck finding a woman who'll marry you who also doesn't eventually want to have kids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Just because they have an inclination to want children doesn't make it okay. Also, who said anything about women?

Part of getting married is to settle down and make a family.

Agreed.

Bit redundant if that family's going to die off after your generation, so you might as well not even bother with that.

What? How is it redundant? That's... pretty barbaric.
You're saying all a family is good for is passing on your own genes to the next generation, which is just disgusting to think about. Yes, life is partially about passing on things to the next-generation. But they don't have to be your kids at all for that to happen. Having children is not essentially in passing on what you know.

It reminds me of MGS 1, where Master Miller explains that Alaskan field mice eat other mice's children to ensure that their genes get passed on.

To be honest, I'm not too big on marriage anyway. It's nice, sure, but all the legal stuff involved with it just makes it a bit too undesirable to me, especially if you don't plan on having kids. It seems like it puts both parties under more pressure than they need to be, and for what?

I can definitely see where you're coming from, dude. And if not being married is what it takes for you to be happy, then by all means. Knock yourself out.

Quote from: Snake on February 25, 2015, 12:39:13 PM

Just because something is natural or "programmed into our brains" doesn't make it okay. Killing others is natural, does that make it okay? No.

It's simple. The presence of pleasure is good. The presence of pain is bad. The absence of pain is good, and the absence of pleasure is only bad if there is someone their to experience it. Which, if you're not born, you can't.

Because children don't have a choice to be born or not, they shouldn't be born. Life is an imposition, one with inevitable pain included.

Taking a life and creating a life are two completely different things. Besides, what you're saying is completely dependent on context. By your logic, it's not okay to kill someone who's doing their hardest to kill you. Should I just let them kill me because it's not right to end their life? No. And I'm not going to sit back and let them murder me.

Both are impositions. No one asked to be born, no one asks to be killed. It's the exact same thing, context doesn't matter.

Children don't have the choice to be born, you're right, but just because they don't have a say doesn't mean they don't want to. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has at some point had the desire to live, even if they don't feel that way now. It's human nature. At the most basic level, we just want to survive and procreate.

Again, you're appealing to nature. Logical fallacy, mate.
People may want to live, but they don't know if they want to live until they're born. What about the people that don't want to live? Are they given easy means to kill themselves? No. They often have to do gruesome things to get what they want.

There's nothing morally wrong about that.

Morals are subjective. Don't bring it up again, please.

You're saying that, because everyone inevitably has a moment when they feel down or are in pain, that means they shouldn't be have the chance to be born?

I'm simply stating that pain is unavoidable, and shouldn't be forced unto people. Life is an imposition, just like rape and murder.

Arguing that point, you could easily counter with the fact that, by not giving that baby a chance to be born, you're an awful person robbing that kid of all his/her potential happiness, love and whatever else good feelings are out there.

Doesn't matter. Pain is inevitable, and while someone may enjoy their life, at the end of the day, negative emotions are stronger than positive ones. Who are you to say that how much pain or joy one must feel to see life as "worth the imposition"?

Life can be hard sometimes, yeah, but if I had the choice of being born or not, I'd never once consider the option of just ceasing to exist.

Good for you! Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm glad you enjoy life. So do I. I'm just arguing my beliefs in a (hopefully) convicting way.

2. Be independent.

I want a partner not a pet. I've already got two cats and a dog. I don't need another clingly dependent animal hanging on me all day every day. This isn't to say that kind of affection isn't nice, but you need to be able to do things an your own without needing me to be there to hold your hand every step of the way for every little thing.

This. Holy shit, I mean, yeah, I'd like to feel useful and valuable to my partner, but independence is fucking sexy as hell.

In an effort to get this thread back on track I'll throw out my two requirements.

Question: I actually like where this conversation is going. Can you still lock it if it gets derailed, or do I have to request that as the OP?

Quote from: Snake on February 25, 2015, 01:09:34 PM

Quote from: Luciana on February 25, 2015, 01:00:03 PM

Snake goes on in MGS2 about passing genes

If you don't listen to him you HATE MGS.

He's actually talking about memes, which are things you pass on through experiences and stories. The speech at the end is actually a way for Kojima to communicate with the Metal Gear team on how to create Metal Gear games without him.

That's deep, yo.

Also, I read your post about pain and what not. You strike me as a glass half empty kind of guy.

That's why I think MGS2 is the most complex narrative video games have ever produced.

Actually, I look at life in a lot better light than most people. Don't judge me before you get to know me man, XD.

Quote

This. Holy shit, I mean, yeah, I'd like to feel useful and valuable to my partner, but independence is fucking sexy as hell.

Yeah, feeling useful to your partner is a given. I probably should have specified that in the be independent part, but I assumed people would understand that.

It was, I was just adding it in, y'know? It's akin to doing well on a sports team, for example. "Yeah, I'd like to score a few goals, but ultimately, I want the team to win." Wanting to score a few goals is a given.

As long as it's not getting to bad I'll allow it. Currently I think the derailment isn't that bad so no locking will take place. However if it devolves into something like say an anti-natalism shitflinging fest I'll step in.

Gotcha. I'll try to keep it civil.

Quote from: Snake on February 25, 2015, 01:20:55 PM

Quote from: Luciana on February 25, 2015, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: Snake on February 25, 2015, 01:09:34 PM

Quote from: Luciana on February 25, 2015, 01:00:03 PM

Snake goes on in MGS2 about passing genes

If you don't listen to him you HATE MGS.

He's actually talking about memes, which are things you pass on through experiences and stories. The speech at the end is actually a way for Kojima to communicate with the Metal Gear team on how to create Metal Gear games without him.

That's deep, yo.

Also, I read your post about pain and what not. You strike me as a glass half empty kind of guy.

That's why I think MGS2 is the most complex narrative video games have every produced.

Actually, I look at life in a lot better light than most people. Don't judge me before you get to know me man, XD.

Kojima: "Guys... it's time to understand I can't always be here, ya know? Here..."

MGS4: "This will be my last game, then I'm done."

*a few installments later*

"I can't let go of my baby."

Well after MGS2, he WAS finished with Metal Gear... but after MGS3 started to fail, he stepped in and created something fantastic.

After creating Big Boss's origins, I think Kojima realised how much more he liked BB to SS. Pair that with the death threats he was getting from fans to follow up MGS2, he wanted to finish SS's story so he could devote his time to Big Boss.

Which is unfortunate because if lolMGS4 wasn't created, Peace Walker probably would've been on PS3 and been way better.

Quote from: Madmaxepic on February 24, 2015, 06:48:40 PM

-Willing to practice abstinence and have a Catholic wedding

Yes, let's listen to what some random old man in the old days suddenly said was wrong, and not was Jesus said at all. Let's also listen to them saying women having any power in the Catholic church being wrong, and then turn a Saint into a whore because women are bad!

Let's also have an expensive wedding and then get divorced in 4 years because we focused on the idea of marriage rather than the marriage itself, and what we'd do if the other suddenly came down with a disease or the first wave of "excitement" in the relationship fades away.

It's rather amusing that you told people to put down their fedoras only a few posts before this, then proceed to make a fedorarific post like this.

Quote from: Madmaxepic on February 27, 2015, 11:27:07 PM

Quote from: Luciana on February 25, 2015, 01:01:23 AM

Quote from: Madmaxepic on February 24, 2015, 06:48:40 PM

-Willing to practice abstinence and have a Catholic wedding

Yes, let's listen to what some random old man in the old days suddenly said was wrong, and not was Jesus said at all. Let's also listen to them saying women having any power in the Catholic church being wrong, and then turn a Saint into a whore because women are bad!

Let's also have an expensive wedding and then get divorced in 4 years because we focused on the idea of marriage rather than the marriage itself, and what we'd do if the other suddenly came down with a disease or the first wave of "excitement" in the relationship fades away.

It's rather amusing that you told people to put down their fedoras only a few posts before this, then proceed to make a fedorarific post like this.

It's rather amusing to find you get annoyed when people call your art shit :^)

Who are you? If you're someone I know elsewhere, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I do get pissy when people mock my religious beliefs.

Also, really, you insulted my religious beliefs for basically no reason, made a bunch of unfounded assumptions, while moments before just telling people not to act like fedoras. Insulting people's beliefs unpovoked is exactly what a typical fedora tipper does.

Quote from: Madmaxepic on February 27, 2015, 11:37:49 PM

]Who are you? If you're someone I know elsewhere, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I do get pissy when people mock my religious beliefs.

Also, really, you insulted my religious beliefs for basically no reason, made a bunch of unfounded assumptions, while moments before just telling people not to act like fedoras. Insulting people's beliefs unpovoked is exactly what a typical fedora tipper does.

You taking it personally like it was a direct attack is the funny thing here.

I was calling out both religious and non religious people about their non negotiable thing. It's retarded.

Edit: And I'm sure half the people posting these in this thread are basement dwelling virgins anyway.

It has been said already, marrying someone with extremely different views is unwise. Why would I marry someone who wouldn't allow me to raise my children Catholic, when I find it morally obligatory to do so? And why do you think a religious person would rush into a marriage like a dolt and then get divorced? First of all, I don't even believe in divorce, and second of all, devout people take marriage more seriously then secular people do. Marriage to me, is a lifelong insoluble contract between me and a potential spouse, in the eyes of God, that can never be undone, I do not take it lightly.

And what do you mean I 'took it like a direct attack'? It kinda was a direct attack...

devout people take marriage more seriously then secular people do

Look I don't wanna bash on people for being religious, but divorce is literally why the Anglican Church exists

Anywho, not marrying someone outside of your beliefs makes sense to me. I wouldn't really wanna get married to a staunch catholic dude, as I'm sure he most likely wouldn't wanna marry me.

1. Pretty face
2. Nice ass
3. Nice boobs