It's actually illegal in 33 states last I checked. I know a few years back an old WW2 vet was arrested for feeding the homeless. Though since it raised up controversy, the charges were dropped. Naturally, it was in Florida. What a horrible state.

But then again, a lot of our laws are really shit.

It's not the states
It's individual cities

Quote from: Dissonance on May 14, 2016, 01:17:12 PM

Quote from: Luciana on May 14, 2016, 01:09:54 PM

You do realize you'll have to bow when the Supreme Court eventually takes it up and more than likely rules in favor of the left.

And then you'll realize everything is literally the same because until it was made a law, no one cared.

Principle does not care about outcome

You don't get to do whatever you want because you're have a victimized mindset

you're

I'm not even saying that from a for/against stance on the trans thing. I don't have a victimized mindset because I honestly don't care about it. I've already told you I'm jaded on it and hate this State vs White House thing. Just let the Supreme Court take it up and be done with it. We all know that's where it's going anyway, and odds are it'll be ruled in favor of the left.

So we should concede because something is likely to happen?
What is your argument right now because at first it was "nothing is going to happen" and now it's "it's going to happen anyways so whatever"

Like I said
Principle does not care for outcome

I guess you think the 13th amendment is bullshit too because most slaves stayed in the same situation after it

The amount of inconsistency coming from the trans community is fucking ridiculous

So if I make a trans person uncomfortable, it's my fault for making them uncomfortable
But if they walk into whichever bathroom they want and I find that uncomfortable, it's my fault for being uncomfortable

None of you guys have answered my question yet
What protects people from the threat of other people who are not suppose to be in their bathroom??

Because you're all just saying "oh but nothing will happen if we let people do whatever they want"

And I would be more understanding except you can change the fucking gender on your birth certificate

Honestly, if you don't let transgender people do whatever they want, you're a bigot and closed minded

Laws aren't based on your feelings
They're based on facts and logic
And a law that says you can choose the bathroom based on your feelings is not a logical law
Honestly I'm not even making it seem worse than it is
It is legit saying you can choose which bathroom you feel like using 

for what

going in the bathroom or rape

crimes they committed inside will still be crimes

Let me clarify
Men are now permitted to enter the women's restroom and spy on what they do in there
And as auspicious as it seems, it's a very real breach of privacy
The bathroom is no longer protected as a place where you can preform private functions without freedom from the threat of potential mentally disturbed people 

So go tell your shithead state legislators and various school boards to comply with Title IX

Gender is a completely different than gender identity
Gender identity loophole to bypass gender

I really think NC is being irrational and trying to chase a boogeyman that isn't there. Out of the measly 3.8% of American citizens that identify as LGBT, only 0.3% is Trans, what are the absolute chances that you're going to walk into a restroom with someone that may not be the same birth sex as you?

Also, this REALLY belongs in Serious.

It's not about the probability or solving any glaring issue
It's about ensuring protection under the law
You don't leave a gaping legal loophole out there for people to exploit

What stops perverts from getting it changed if it's so simple. If it's easy, then perverts can easily abuse it, if it's hard, then you're putting undue burden on trans people.

Well if you were educated, you would know that you need a doctor's approval to have it changed
Did you think you could go to the DMV and just have it changed or something?

And for those willing to go as far as forging it, the problem would no longer be bathroom laws
It would be individuals going out of their way to be a creep which would fall under other federal laws

And some people's ideas of out of the ordinary are not something that need to be entertained.

If a person reports a trans person, then the trans person would show ID and explain their situation
Like you said, some non trans people have this problem too

Right
Because all transmen are big hairy and buff [/quote]
Many are. This did nothing to address the point.

Many are. This did nothing to address the point.

Seeing how there are only 1OO-5OO surgeries performed every year for trans people, I doubt it
Unless you can provide some statistics on that

They've proven quite willing to enforce these policies, even on cis women.

Like I said
Statistics?

You can't always just tell whether a person who looks like a man in the bathroom is trans or pretending to be without calling the police on them. "Oh he can't be a pervert, perverts get punished" is delusional level thinking. Is that going to matter to a woman at the moment? When she's unsure whether this 200 pound bearded dude who can clearly overpower her is standing there? Is she going to care "oh well whatever he does he can be punished for it", or is she going to genuinely feel uncomfortable?

In which case she of course then contacts the police to verify this situation.

And so is how transmen are never able to use the bathroom without dealing with the police again.

With either policy, you'll never be able to completely tell who's trans and who's not
You're just trying to make it seem like droves of big hunky trans men will be pouring into the lady's room
At least with this policy, people are under the umbrella of lawful protection whereas with your policy, they are not

Unsurprisingly to no ill effects or notable patterns of crime.
But hypotheticals are of more importance than reality to those supporting these bills.

I'm sure there were no patterns of crime but now that you want to put it into writing, it will literally be in the law that there is no barrier protecting people from having their privacy violated

Really? I've seen examples where that was attempted, not once where it was held up.

Yeah because it's not in the law that people can just claim to be trans without support
And I would like to keep it that way 

It doesn't protect them. Criminal behavior is still punished. Somehow you act as if there is some magic act rapists can perform to simultaneously conduct criminal behavior while not conducting criminal behavior. If some dude goes in there and looks every woman in the eye as they leave the stall and he licks his lips, that's sexual harassment and he can get arrested. I don't understand what mental gymnastics you're pulling.

Yeah because sexual harassment is sexual harassment and you'll get arrested either way
Men can easily just deny allegations since there are no cameras in the bathroom
The point is that the law permits men to enter the bathroom under false pretenses

Diss, how do you propose we stop the big bad rapists from just claiming to be transmen and then entering women's restrooms.

Because the only options I see are having genital police (hahah fuck you) or effectively forcing any person who looks vaguely androgynous (doesn't matter if they're cis or trans, you could get reported either way) to carry their birth certificate with them (because that's the basis of the NC law).

Well there's a thing called a license and it has gender on it

I don't think Billie Jo should be able to turn someone's bathroom visit into a run-in with the police. Because Billie Jo is a retarded hick who shouldn't have the power to decide who passes and who doesn't, especially when there are plenty of cis-women who don't even pass all the time.

That's the nature of society tho
People completely entitled to question what they deem to be out of the ordinary

And ironically, forcing people to attend bathroom by sex is even WORSE for women's privacy. Do you think women are going to feel naturally at ease as big buff hairy transmen have to be in the same space as them? How the fuck can anyone tell the difference between a transman and some perv pretending to be one unless we just have the police jump them anytime they need to just fucking piss.

Right
Because all transmen are big hairy and buff
And cops are just waiting to kick down the stall door

And no it's not worse for women's privacy
Because they know that under law, the pervs can be taken to court and persecuted
Whereas with your policy they cannot

The right has managed to engineer an unsolvable problem from a non-issue, it's quite amazing.

What the what
A non issue?
First off it was you guys who pushed the whole bathroom thing
Second, a non issue?
You guys love to say that "oh but no trans person ever raped anybody" to defend a law that pedophiles can literally use in the court of law to defend themselves
third, no problems are solvable
You ban guns, you'll still have occasional gun incidences
You lower the drinking age, you still have underage drinkers

The point is that you cannot open up the law to protect the scum of society to accommodate one group of people 

Even though if someone is afraid of being stalked, they can report it. It's not protecting stalkers at all, you're just somehow bundling it up along with it.

And just as easily can the stalker deny all claims and get away with it
They now have a blindspot in the law that they can exploit

And saying it doesn't matter if it doesn't happen, but only because it can happen, is a pretty bad point. It's just speculation. Until it actually happens and has a repeated pattern, then yeah I don't think you have much to worry about.

It is not a bad point lol
Do you know what protection means?
It means you prevent something, put something in place to stop it before it happens
You don't throw open the doors and wait for disaster to come

In this case, you don't leave a loophole in the law that allows for privacy to be breached
This isn't even an unintended loophole
They actually put that loophole in place   

and once again you focused on the men entering the woman's bathroom, only proving my point. You keep saying one thing and then elaborating with another. How you don't see that is what I'm sure is confusing plenty of people here.

Well if you could retain information at all, I clarified how I use men entering women's restrooms as a primary example
Mainly to avoid confusing and to keep it concise
But yes I do treat both sides equally

Anyway, it's quite obvious we could go on with this forever, but I have other things I must do. So I'll end it here and just agree to disagree with you.

Looks like that's the closest I'm ever going to get to an acknowledgement of my valid points
I guess that's to be expected seeing how you spent the whole thread trying to make this policy seem less bad and never provided a reason as to why it's good

You know I think I'll go into Target and piss loudly in the female bathroom just for you

"Stay in your own bathrooms" is the only thing I'm getting here from you, and every time you're asked to clarify your point, you default to molestation or rape. Then you say it's a bad point and say "but it's the principle".

If you actually took the time to look at the thread you will see that I have never used rape or molestation for my examples

I'll say it again
The principle is privacy and security under the protection of the law
In other words, a man who enters a woman's bathroom will be punished by the law
With this new policy, men who enter the women's bathroom can no longer be punished by the law

Why rape and molestation is a bad example is that those crimes, you will get arrested regardless of whether you're in a bathroom or not

Quote from: Dissonance on May 13, 2016, 11:25:00 PM

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point
Crimes are prevented everyday because they know that if they go into the women's restroom, they will be persecuted legally
Now, they can't be persecuted legally

I know you don't mean it this way, but you're making it sound like if a trans person assaults/rapes/molests someone in the bathroom they're allowed in, they're suddenly not going to be persecuted. You realize how silly you sound, right?

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point

Literally what

What are you concerned about? That people with the "wrong" dangly bits will go into the "wrong" bathroom or that people will use these policies to commit crimes and suffer no repercussions? If it's the first, then I'm gonna go ahead and say that is so unbelievably petty. If it's the latter, then you logically have nothing to worry about.

You're right
This will probably affect me in no way practically
But it's the fundamental principle I'm arguing

I don't see why you're trying to lighten this by real world application
It's the LAW
Literally what protects the citizens
And you want one that allows for the compromise of security and privacy

What's illogical is equating this law to "You can do whatever you want."

Alright
Point out to me what enforces the distinction between male and female bathrooms now

Because it sure as hell isn't the law anymore

Inherent protection? What inherent protection? If a rapist or pedo is going into a bathroom to commit a crime, they are going to do it anyway.

Bathrooms are by nature discriminatory
Women's bathrooms are discriminatory to men and men's bathrooms are discriminatory to women
It is a discrimination enforced by police
Who come to drag you away if you don't follow it

This new policy takes away that discrimination

It seems some people think there's a sex detector on those doors that keeps them locked to all but the appropriate sex. If someone wants to go into a bathroom and commit a crime, guess what, they're going to. I have yet to hear or read about a single instance of a rape that was preveyby the woman symbol on the door. Rapists have always had the option to dress up before now. This particular "security threat" has always been there. Saying otherwise is lunacy.

This law was created for one thing and one thing only. It's to prevent Trans people from coming out by making sure there is no where they feel comfortable.

Rape is a bad example because you'll be arrested either way but I see your point
Crimes are prevented everyday because they know that if they go into the women's restroom, they will be persecuted legally
Now, they can't be persecuted legally