why does this thread have so many replies ._.

itstimetostop.meme

Verb and Tru told me to make this my own thread, so now that I got free time I can continue from last night.

Yeah, your only reason was "it's an unneccesary change". I actually gave reasons why it made Fallout 2 and the character of Myron retroactively better.

I disagree with those reasons though. I think it's better that a guy makes a drug in a world where there is a bunch of crap going on, to capitalize on their troubles. It makes him dirt.

Yep, after making a huge walk from Lost Hills to The Pitt to DC, seeing countless horrors along the way and dying wastelanders who he had to ignore out of some old book, it's completely unreasonable for Elder Lyons to try to be more compassionate and helpful to the residents of the East Coast when he eventually settled there. It's completely unreasonable for the diehard BoS members to hate him for that, and break off to remain true to the actual BoS. Totally doesn't have any story value or interesting concept behind it. It would be TOTALLY better for Lyons to be another faceless, generic BoS operative who's diehard to the Codex and doesn't change a thing about their organization, and for that facelessness to carry into the F4 BoS.

The horrors of dynamic storytelling, where experiences change people, and they have to deal with the repercussions of that change.

My argument is that they don't capitalize on that story at all. They talk about it a bit in The Pitt DLC I believe, and that's it. My issue too is that they don't like Ghouls, yet they do nothing to show it. My issue is that they have this faction that split off and they have an uneasy cold/civil war, yet nothing goes on about it.

They completely shove down your throat that the DC BoS are the good guys, and you have to be with them whether you like it or not. There is nothing dynamic about the, and goes entirely against what the BoS should be. Even if they SHOULD be good guys, they should expose some of the flaws they have, rather than just give one line to them and that be that.

Uh, yeah. If you find something in a container, it's there.

I have to disagree with this if it's randomized. Unless it's specifically there for a story purpose, or actually placed there purposely without the random loot being into play, then yes I would agree.

Except the BoS in F4 was a blend of their original goals and Lyons' influence, as seen by the fact that they recruit wastelanders and have a tolerance for sane ghouls. EC BoS has never returned to the exclusion and bigotry that the WC BoS had.

Actually not every chapter of the BoS on the West Coast was isolated like that, considering you can join them in Fallout 1 (and Tactics).

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Become_an_initiate

In Fallout 2 you can't join them, so they're more like the Mojave Chapter, but not all of them are like that.


My main gripe with all of this, like one of you said in the other thread, is how they portray them in Fallout 3. As in, the writing was so bad they fail to take advantage of any of it. I guess I'm walking back when I say that, but other posts made me more or less realize some of the things they did lore wise with them weren't bad. Just how they executed it. I like the concept of the split in FO3, don't get me wrong. I like that one Elder has a sense of humanity, and other hard liners don't so they split. And like it was said (and something I never considered), it'd have been MUCH better if the Outcast replaced the Enclave in Fallout 3. I feel like there was so much potential for that civil war, and a mixture of humanity and some lingering hard liners, but it was squandered by somehow shoehorning the Enclave there instead, and forcing you to go with the BoS (if you want to complete the story properly at least).

I give them credit for fixing them in Fallout 4 though. In fact I'd argue THAT Brotherhood is even more batshit scary than the ones on the West Coast. They turned into Crusaders more than anything, where as the original BoS was more so just Army Guys who were weary and horde happy.

yeah but so did 3D during its fledgling stage

if you're not wholly invested in VR technology, you don't understand its potential

this sort of thing could potentially justify childbirth to me

I think it'll do better in narrative games and not games that focus so heavily on mechanics.

SHARPSHOOTER IS FINALLY BACK

MY CLASS IS BACK AND IT ONLY TOOK THEM A FUCKING YEAR!!!!!!!

People are saying they enjoy it though

Tru and I are talking about how good it was, and I don't even own the damn thing. Thank goodness for Windows 10

Yeah I heard that this morning. Really really morbid.

do i want to waste my time with the PC conference

If it's anything like last years? No.

oh shit I forgot that they hated ghouls

Everyone did

because they didn't flesh the BoS out at all in Fallout 3. Credit to them for actually making them a flawed faction again in 4. All of them are flawed in their own way, and that's a lot of what Fallout is about.

Big fucking deal, you have to deal with a splinter of a faction instead of the base faction. You're on the opposite end of the country. And then you bitch about the natural progression of defying the Codex, when Fallout 4 had the Maxson line overtake the Lyons line. All of this makes complete sense and actually made the BoS interesting again, but boo hoo, it's a change.

You're using change as the justification to your points when I've stated time and time again that there is nothing wrong with change so long as it's good. It's fine if things changed, but they went the complete opposite direction of the faction they represented, only to go RIGHT BACK in Fallout 4 after listening to fans.

My Space Marine example was perfect for what I am telling you.

Randomized loot is still canon.

Says who? You?

]What was unique about them was that they were the Brotherhood of Steel. Lyons' group was NOT the BoS, at all. They were defectors from the Codex. That's the whole fucking point, and why the Outcasts left the "main" group in the first place.

I'm aware of that. And none of the original fans liked that you barely interacted with the outcast outside a DLC months later. and the BoS they put on the cover of the game, and talked about constantly, were the good noble knights of the wasteland. You can say they're NOT the BoS all you want, but the fact they're still white knights doesn't excuse the fact you were forced to interact with them in the main story and have them go completely against their original and loved lore.

That's like making a 40k game where a Space Marine faction is friendly to all aliens and wants to make friends, but it's okay because they're 'not really Space Marines'.

Not all change is inherently bad and needs to have a reason behind it.

I never said it did.

Jet being pre-war is one of the most innocuous and easily explained retcons, and one that makes the source game (Fallout 2) even better. Myron was an egotistical, conniving shit. It only heightens his character that his one claim to fame wasn't even his.

Fallout 3 made it canon by letting you find jet in sealed, pre-war bunkers and vaults.

And that was explained under the randomized loot system, so no I don't think that holds much ground.

I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to Fallout lore. I know exactly what the explanation was, but it still went against everything the pre-existing faction did.

To which they fixed in Fallout 4 and off handedly put the history in a paragraph or two on a computer in Fallout 4. It's about as retcon like as you can get without simply saying it didn't happen.

There was nothing unique ABOUT the Outcast in Fallout 3 other than they were less friendly and isolated BoS members.

And yeah, it's so unbelievable that a person like fucking Myron would reverse engineer the process to making a forgotten drug and then claim it as his own original creation. It's not like that's completely in line with his character or anything like that. In fact, it just makes his character even stronger and more interesting.

And that sounds like an excuse if anything to justify changing it for no reason.

How did Fallout 3 make it canon?

Edit: And I don't hate Fallout 4. I'm playing it right now. That doesn't mean as a fan of the series I can't be critical of where I feel it comes short. In fact I think it makes you more a fan that you don't just blindly defend a game. And I was more or less talking about things in general. The whole "haha if you dont like it dont buy it or talk about it" mentality is so childish.

I know it's a small thing

But I will forever be triggered that Fallout 4 made it canon that Jet was a pre-war drug, when you meet the guy in Fallout 2 who MADE THE DAMN THING.

It's just an example of them pissing on the lore.

You're killing over a billion people, many of whom have done nothing wrong in their lives.

No. What is wrong with you?