Gentlemen. If we go for a hybrid I point you to this idea here. Bit of a read. But consider it.

http://sep7agon.net/index.php?topic=18769.0

Remember. That idea, that system, isn't meant to overwrite our current setup. It's an extension really. An extension for the part of the mod work that needs to be fine tuned carefully between relaxed and not relaxed.

I think this should be moved to Sep7agon.

But, Sand, how would you feel about the idea of monitors being able to dole out "ultra-lite" bans of anywhere from 30 minutes to like two hours, in order to stop an immediate shit-flinging or undesirable behaviour, which isn't exceptionally serious?

That's a decent idea. But you know what you run into with that?

Ding ding.

MOD BIAS.

"This mod banned me for ten minutes but didn't ban so and so for ten when they did something worse."

If you have a clear, established set of rules then there is no bias.

Okay. I'm going to pitch an idea here. Just an idea is all. What is this community? It's a loose affiliation of people from all walks who talk and post in all different manners. With a group of people like this, shit is bound to break out. Shit flinging contests and arguments that suck the whole forum into a petty, useless drama fest that spreads to other neighboring sites.

What is this site? This site on paper is a relaxed, easy going community that wants to grow and just do it's thing. And for the most part, this is true. But there is an issue here that I don't believe we can avoid at this point any longer.

Cue "Mod Bias."

Now, the mods have done a good job so far. They've done the best they can but they're only people. And they're trying to live up to the mantle of "an easy going community." And to do this they try to play fair. Negotiate with people and work things out. This isn't a bad thing. But this is a simple fact of life.

People are fucking assholes. People are fucking stupid.

And inevitably, arguments and shitstorms start up again even after the mods, people who just want to keep the peace spend fucking hours of their day trying to reason with two fucking cinderblocks for people who don't know when to shut their traps or use some common sense.

So what do you do? How do you maintain an easy going community, yet live up to the mantle of easy going and relaxed, while keeping the zest and randomness of the flood alive in some sense?

You streamline the rules. You build a new system that doesn't drag the mods into the ring with the offenders. Because so far that's what happened. The mods get dragged into the fighting ring with the offenders and play a boxing match with each other when they have to pick a side.

And that's not fair. So. Here's the idea.

You have two categories. A light category, and a heavy category. And here's the really important catch.

This rule set does not ovverride our standard set of rules but is designed specifically around arguments and fights between other users.

Light Category

This category is for people who break the rules, but they aren't assholes about it. Maybe they posted something that was against the rules, or let the wrong thing slip, just a simple mistake on their part. Maybe they started a debate with another user that turned into a mild back and forth volley. And they just didn't drop it.

Case and point. We'll just call them Larry and Jenny.

A little while back, Jenny and Larry got in a fuss. From a technical standpoint, Larry really did nothing horrible. But Jenny kept at it. Kept on pushing. By rights, Jenny was the offender. But at the same time, Larry kept the fight going. Defending himself. Kept on sparking the fire.

This ended up in a huge debate and negotiation that took hours between all the mods. Not only were the mods debating among each other, but they were trying to work out a resolution between both parties. It was a mess. Larry was unfortunately a vocal member and somewhat of a contributor. If you swung the hammer on Larry as well as Jenny, Larry would stir up a shit storm. Likewise, Jenny would have too because both believed they were right.

And if you warned or banned one of them?

MOD BIAS.

Better watch out for those words folks. Those are dangerous words.

So. What's our light system and how would it deal with a case of Larry and Jenny?

3 strikes, 3 sets.

1st: 5 Minute ban
2nd: 10 minute ban
3rd: 15 minute ban

1st: 30 minute ban
2nd: 40 minute ban
3rd: 50 minute ban

1st: 1 hour ban
2nd: 3 hour ban
3rd: 5 hour ban

So. you ask the question. Why minutes? Why hours? Because this is a light category. It gives people some time to chill and relax. It's like a time out. These times aren't overly long and they start simple. But they increase to let people know that they're walking on dangerous ground.

So. How would this help with Jenny and Larry?

Jenny was the instigator, and Larry just wouldn't drop it. You give them both a slap. It's just a slap is all.

What if Jenny was the instigator and Larry decided to drop it? Jenny gets a slap. Simple, plain, and fair. If two people, no matter who they are, the offender or the defender, start up something that goes out of hand, they're both in the wrong if they keep it up. And you slap them both for it.

Heavy Category

This category is for people who don't give a fuck. These are the heavy offenders. This category is entered when somebody uses up all their strikes on the light category. For the sake of balance and fairness, whenever somebody lands themselves in the light category, and gets to the end of the road, they have a timer.

Like they do now with warnings. A warning is placed on somebody and stays there for a certain length of time before reseting back to zero. However. With this set this has the ability to be abused. What if somebody who doesn't give a fuck coasts through the light list and then simply waits for the reset, and then comes back to their normal self once the timer rests?

You give them three chances. One pass through the light list, a timer reset down to zero, they have two chances left. Once those chances are blown through, the offender is automatically moved to the heavy offender list.

So what happens with the offender list?

1st: 1 day ban
2nd: 2 day ban
3rd: 3 day ban

1st: 1 week
2nd: 2 week
3rd: 3 week

1st: 1 month
2nd: 2 month
3rd: End of the road. Permanent ban and server blacklist.  However, this can be appealed if a user wants to come back and they can make a convincing enough case that they aren't going to be a sack of shit anymore.


The heavy offender list has no timer. There are no resets because once you land in here you're an asshole. What's the heavy offender list for?

Generally, the same stuff as the light list, except taken to extremes. Either somebody does little things and eventually lands themselves in this list and they realize that they're walking the green mile, or they land themselves here automatically because of the harsher actions they've taken on other users.

The entire point of this sytem, or a sytem like this, is solely for the arguments that are generated between two users. And as some people bring up, there are legitimately people that don't care whether or not they have access to this place.

And you know what? Fuck them. If they don't care, then we shouldn't care either. This site was built because one person cared enough to do so, and cared enough to invite everybody in for the party. The mods do their job and signed up because generally they care about trying to keep things tidy and easy going.

But the fact is, some people are assholes. And you know what you do with assholes? Give them a chance. Give them a chance, and if they can't smarten the fuck up or at least tone it down, then you take them out back and old yeller them.

Because with them around, you can't keep a relaxed, friendly, stable community. You can't create a welcoming environment for new people. But at the same time, you don't want to go full totalitarian state on this place.

Which is why these rules are only to be used concerning arguments between users outside of the Anarchy forum.

So. There you go.

What do you folks think?


.

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 24, 2014, 01:43:58 PM

Quote from: RC5908 on December 24, 2014, 01:30:41 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 24, 2014, 01:25:12 PM

It wouldn't change my will to ameliorate the forum in whatever ways that I can.

You're hardly a contributory member, then.

Okay. Here's an example. You see this?  ^^^^

I'd ban. This isn't technically a shit flinging contest in high intensity. But this is the kind of bullshit I'm talking about. This is the shit that sparks arguments and forum drama. You people don't know when to drop the fucking ball.

There would be no one left to post on the site then.

The Flood has always been a cesspool. You just have to decide which are the bigger problems.

No. You make a system and you streamline it.

Verb won't can it with his replies and RCcar won't stop baiting. I'm not saying you take a golf club and swing them into the sun.

But you take both of them, and you give them a decking across the face.

3 Strikes 3 Sets is for harsh things. You design two sets of rules.

3 strikes 3 sets is for heavy offenders. But you make anothe set of rules for light offenders. When you get into the heavy zone, you get bans. When you're in the light zone like the stuff up above? You give them a slap.

That way, people have a chance to stop, think, and straighten the fuck out.

Verb and RC aren't at each other's throats. But they aren't fucking dropping it. Neither of them deserve a ban but at the same time this is the fucking gas can and lighter that starts all these drama shit storms.

That's not what my jolly rosey cheeked white bearded fat bastard on Dark Souls says. I give the gift of being mildy helpful in co-op and a good solid dunking to invaders.

Reflected. Lonely. Ensnared.

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 24, 2014, 11:32:35 AM

You know what 343 should do?

Hold a fan art contest. Cities, countries, and places in our world with the future touch of Halo to them. Because I want to see New York Halo style.

Then tell 343 that

Ho fuck no. I ain't treading those waters.

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 24, 2014, 07:56:50 AM

Cheers on the spree. Haven't played customs in ages not that I have any fucking people to do it with anyway.

Nice tree too.

You still on 360?

Adddd meeee

I haven't touched my 360 in weeks dude. I hopped on for some jolly festive dark souls yesterday and I couldn't be fucking arsed.

I've got nothing to play with folks and at this point all I can do is talk. And ask Kiyo how fucking well I sound because I don't think I sound the best right now. You can give it a shot if you want but you'll just be an empty name on my list I hardly ever see or talk to. Time zone differences blow ass too.

GT is Sangheili Merc

Did you know Gordon actually has a sound in his range of acting skills?

He makes a grunt when he gets set on fire.

Well let's see. I got hit by a slow moving truck. Got sick. Got more sick. Died. Got back up. Ripped my heart out. And now I'm here.

Fantastic year.

Oh and my family exploded into a bit of a feud for Christmas so I'm just stuck here with nothing.

Cheers.

Hello sunshine.

I've got nothing.

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 23, 2014, 07:52:30 AM

Quote from: challengerX on December 23, 2014, 04:09:16 AM

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 23, 2014, 03:54:43 AM

At the moment? Survive. Get up and try.

I just ripped my heart out in a figurative sense because I had to. And I did it because of the state of mind I'm in right now. I'm temporarily bullet proof happy because of the fact that I was dead for a little bit there. My head and eyes are different now. But it won't last forever. Mirrors are ugly things. I can see myself on the outside falling apart.

And I can see myself on the inside and all the horrible ways I operate.

So. That's my goal. Survive all this. Get up and fight as best I can. We'll see what comes after this if I can make it that far.

You're a tough guy, mentally. Whether or not you think so, it's true. Otherwise you would've given up a long time ago.

Maybe. But if I was better off I wouldn't have to do what I just did a while back. I took a friend, somebody close to me, and I cut them out of my life. Cut them out because I had to. No choice. Don't have the will to avert my focus from them and balance my life at the same time.

Because that's how I work. I have to hate myself. Loathe myself and damage myself, back myself into a corner and rip myself apart. I do that because that's seemingly the only way I get back up and push the hardest. So. Here I am today.

I wake up and I realize I will never talk to a friend of mine and I will never encounter them again. And if I were better off I could have kept them as a friend and managed all this at the same time. But I'm not perfect. So I've got to do stuff the ugly way.

Why?

Even if you're dying there's no need to cut people out of your life before you go. It's not like if you don't give somebody all your attention you can't be friends.

Na. Thing is. I have this person very near and dear to my heart. But it's not something that can happen because of distance, lifestyles, and the fact that they already have a significant other. We both agreed that friends works best but that doesn't change the fact every time I talk to them, I can completely empty my heart and soul.

And I know how they work. I see them for who they are and I can't help but want to get closer even if it's impossible. It sets me into a loop. I talk to them when I get down, they pick me up, then I want to get closer, realize it'll never happen, and then I sink lower.

I'm caught. My logical, waking mind gives me every logical reason why it's not possible. But my sub-conscious disagrees and sabotages me. And I can't turn off what I feel like it's a light switch. But I can cut the source to the light switch.

So that's what I did.

Essentially freed myself but a piece of me died too. It's a necessary thing. I need full focus on my end to make things work. So. Today's a fan fucking tastic day.

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 23, 2014, 03:54:43 AM

At the moment? Survive. Get up and try.

I just ripped my heart out in a figurative sense because I had to. And I did it because of the state of mind I'm in right now. I'm temporarily bullet proof happy because of the fact that I was dead for a little bit there. My head and eyes are different now. But it won't last forever. Mirrors are ugly things. I can see myself on the outside falling apart.

And I can see myself on the inside and all the horrible ways I operate.

So. That's my goal. Survive all this. Get up and fight as best I can. We'll see what comes after this if I can make it that far.

You're a tough guy, mentally. Whether or not you think so, it's true. Otherwise you would've given up a long time ago.

Maybe. But if I was better off I wouldn't have to do what I just did a while back. I took a friend, somebody close to me, and I cut them out of my life. Cut them out because I had to. No choice. Don't have the will to avert my focus from them and balance my life at the same time.

Because that's how I work. I have to hate myself. Loathe myself and damage myself, back myself into a corner and rip myself apart. I do that because that's seemingly the only way I get back up and push the hardest. So. Here I am today.

I wake up and I realize I will never talk to a friend of mine and I will never encounter them again. And if I were better off I could have kept them as a friend and managed all this at the same time. But I'm not perfect. So I've got to do stuff the ugly way.

Gentlemen.

I was a staff member. Now I'm not. Safe to say we can call that a fuck up.

Ex-Mod Bias.