Quote from: Shhhhhh on April 15, 2018, 12:08:13 PM

Quote from: Aether on April 15, 2018, 12:03:40 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on April 15, 2018, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 11:01:21 AM

The pay-off is discipline and self-worth.

the payoff is also exhaustion, misery, and age—oftentimes in greater amounts

Hard work doesn't make a person inherently miserable. There are many people that are miserable when they aren't working hard.

i'm really not sure where you're getting that from my post

all i did was express the very real possibility that working hard has its adverse effects—you may be some fucking weirdo who actually likes doing work or some shit, but not everybody is you

that's all i'm saying

I'm not talking about me, I'm not a particularly industrious person, but the way you talk makes it sound like misery is an inevitability with hard work.

i mean in some ways i think it is

i think those who work and aren't miserable are either stupid or fooling themselves

sometimes you have to fool yourself to keep yourself sane, but i just prefer to be honest

deprive people of their freedom, and they'll do all sorts of insane shit to entertain themselves—that's not real happiness

I don't buy it. Not every person is the same, and I think an industrious person that stays true to who they are will relish in working hard. As a creative and open person, what gives meaning to my life and makes it engaging for me is creating art in some form. When I observe someone industrious, they seem have the same relationship with work. If they weren't able to work as they wished I believe it would be similar to if I was unable to create, which would be certain misery and hopeless nihilism.

you never contradicted me here

i already covered stupid people in my post, and that's where i file "industrious people"

i consider being "industrious" a sign of lower intelligence—you HAVE to be an idiot to enjoy work

It's very obvious that you aren't an industrious person so I'm not sure why you would assume that someone who is would have the same relationship with work as you do.

i don't

hence why they're idiots and i'm not

Quote from: Aether on April 15, 2018, 12:37:23 PM

I don't buy it. Not every person is the same, and I think an industrious person that stays true to who they are will relish in working hard. As a creative and open person, what gives meaning to my life and makes it engaging for me is creating art in some form. When I observe someone industrious, they seem have the same relationship with work. If they weren't able to work as they wished I believe it would be similar to if I was unable to create, which would be certain misery and hopeless nihilism.

you never contradicted me here

i already covered stupid people in my post, and that's where i file "industrious people"

i consider being "industrious" a sign of lower intelligence—you HAVE to be an idiot to enjoy work

Quote

It's very obvious that you aren't an industrious person so I'm not sure why you would assume that someone who is would have the same relationship with work as you do.

i don't

hence why they're idiots and i'm not

Well those supposed "idiots" are what makes our society function. They're the reason you have running water and electricity. They're the people who would save your life were you trapped in a burning building or had been critically injured in some accident. They're the one's who make sure the streets aren't littered with garbage and that our cities aren't decadent. In fact, they're the one's who actually build our cities in the first place.

Your characterization of industrious people looks particularly foolish and ungrateful.

this is your brain on jordan peterson

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

I'm not speaking in absolutes, sorry if that isn't clear. I don't mean to say that every single person was happy the entire time they were working, or that every single person that helps keeps society running is industrious. I'm saying that some people work because it gives their life meaning and that without industrious people society would practically fall apart.

and to that, i'd probably argue that it's not work itself that's giving their lives meaning, because they'd all rather be doing something else with their lives, and if you'd rather do something else with your life, then how could work possibly be what gives your life meaning

if industrious work is genuinely the most meaningful thing about life to you, then yes, you're practically a neanderthal—but i don't think any of these people really exist

nobody "likes" work—you just have a bunch of people who either have 1.) an incredibly high work ethic to counteract their distaste for work, 2.) someone who's good at bullshitting themselves into a state of complacency, or 3.) they just have a very high tolerance for the oppressive nature of all labor

i was born unlucky, and i lack all of these traits

but the bottom line is, you're not going to find a single intelligent person who wouldn't press a button that finishes all of their jobs—that's my contention

no one, when that button gets invented, is going to be lament the fact that manual labor has been rendered obsolete

Nothing about this view is anything I hadn't already felt deep down long before I ever knew about JBP. You can thank eastern philosophy for instilling me with a respect for the importance and benefits of hard work.

it's mostly just your vocabulary that tipped me off to that

Quote from: Aether on April 15, 2018, 02:41:51 PM

You can thank eastern philosophy for instilling me with a respect for the importance and benefits of hard work.

What does this even mean?

How this chally post doesn`t have 3 crying emoji in the end? Thats new

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

well yeah, but the initial point of contention was the notion that "hard work pays off"

for something to pay off, it has to make you happy somehow, so the subjects are intertwined in that sense

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

You'll be depressed your entire life if you don't enjoy your job.

You are saying this like job is the only thing that exist in world

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 03:02:10 PM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

You'll be depressed your entire life if you don't enjoy your job.

You are saying this like job is the only thing that exist in world

Your career pretty much dominates your life of a day-to-day basis, so naturally if you choose to view it as “slavery” it’s going to impact your happiness. Not a very practical mindset.

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 03:05:57 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 03:02:10 PM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

You'll be depressed your entire life if you don't enjoy your job.

You are saying this like job is the only thing that exist in world

Your career pretty much dominates your life of a day-to-day basis, so naturally if you choose to view it as “slavery” it’s going to impact your happiness. Not a very practical mindset.

And you are saying this like job takes majority of your career or all of it, while in reality it`s not exactly a true, expecially considering part-time jobs exist, distant jobs exist, basically jobs which doesn`t take all of your time and are enough for you to survive, pay bills or w/e exist

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 03:33:24 PM

Quote from: maverick on April 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 03:05:57 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 03:02:10 PM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

You'll be depressed your entire life if you don't enjoy your job.

You are saying this like job is the only thing that exist in world

Your career pretty much dominates your life of a day-to-day basis, so naturally if you choose to view it as “slavery” it’s going to impact your happiness. Not a very practical mindset.

And you are saying this like job takes majority of your career or all of it, while in reality it`s not exactly a true, expecially considering part-time jobs exist, distant jobs exist, basically jobs which doesn`t take all of your time and are enough for you to survive, pay bills or w/e exist

Part-time jobs, stay-at-home jobs, or even intermittent type work is still a significant amount of your life to choose to be miserable because of and this doesn’t undermine the point.

a) I never said that taking job is like choosing a slavery, I said that you take job for survival, because if not for survival, then why?

b) You would be surprised how much jobs there are that don`t take much of your time. Expecially if you are already good at your job, you can just finish it faster.

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 03:02:10 PM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 15, 2018, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: Eli on April 15, 2018, 02:26:14 PM

Happiness is understanding and exploiting the game of biology and Verbatim refuses to play. That's it.

We`re not talking about happiness, we`re talking about jobs. People usually take jobs because they need to survive, not because to be happy. Hobbies exist for happiness. Jobs exist for surviving. Thats it.

You'll be depressed your entire life if you don't enjoy your job.

You are saying this like job is the only thing that exist in world

Um... no, I'm not. I'm saying it like it's one of the most important things in reference to happiness considering it takes up more time than any other activity for the majority of people.