Quote from: Hargbeast on November 26, 2016, 06:18:41 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on November 26, 2016, 04:43:26 PM

Quote from: Hargbeast on November 26, 2016, 04:34:27 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:56:43 PM

Quote from: Ian on November 25, 2016, 08:44:56 PM

Assad did nothing wrong.

The only reason the US intervened is because Russia is involved.

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:42:39 PM

how does that kool aid taste?

yes assad is a wonderful benevolent leader who has never been responsible for anyone's suffering. praise be unto him!

We're talking in shades of grey here. A dictator who uses chemical weapons and other inhumane measures is much superior to a power vacuum that can bring about even worse kinds of shit.

oh now it's shades of gray? i could have sworn i was responding to someone who said "assad did nothing wrong."

weird how that works.

inb4 "its just memes bro xDDDD"

I'm not Ian. I'm Hargbeast.

did i ever say you were ian? no? wow! whoah! incredible! good job hargbeast you really got me!

listen up dipshit. the conversation you entered involved ian specifically stating that "assad did nothing wrong." appending the "shades of gray" aspect to his argument is paradoxical. you understand what im saying? it seems like a pretty simple concept.

no lol

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 06:09:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 26, 2016, 05:55:05 PM

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 05:40:02 PM

Riddle me this, why did the war start in the first place? Accusations of war crimes and chemical weapons only started several years after the war began, so why did it start in the first place? I'm inclined to believe it's a mix of regime change and Saudi Arabia wanting to build their European oil pipeline through Syria, while blocking Iran.Russia from doing the same.

Atrocity propaganda is the US's favorite tactic for drumming up support for toppling enemies and "bringing democracy" to otherwise stable countries.

There's no doubt this is a CIA operation.

That doesn't mean Russia, Assad and co are the good guys.

Even if I play by the UN's rules, Syria is a sovereign state and only armed forces they invite into their country have any justification for being there. Meaning Russia has full legal justification to help them, and the US is violating international law for simply being in the vicinity, let alone everything else they've done.

(of course, I don't make my other arguments by the UN's rules, since that means condemning crimea. This is me playing the devil to show that your own narrative is self contradictory)

Literally the only argument against Assad is the US's atrocity propaganda, which as I've pointed out is as valid as claims of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. They're not.

Yeah we all know the UN is bullshit and nobody cares about its dumb rules.

So I guess all those people tortured themselves? Check the links earlier in the thread. There's piles and piles of evidence against Assad and everybody in his regime. He's an evil man. The only difference is he's not as bad as the terrorist groups that'd take over if he were gone.

This is autism, although maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part. By "rules" I was refering to making a logical argument based on the UN's policies. Using the very same policies that they use to condemn Assad, I can construct an argument to defend him, which I did. When I said I'm not going to use their rules, as I pointed out, it's because using them means condemning Russia's annexation of Crimea.

But I should have fully expected you to misunderstand a figure of speech, and treat it as something else entirely. You really are either incapable of having a discussion, or deliberately twisting my words, because you are a pathological liar. And also a goat fucker.

Quote from: Ian on November 25, 2016, 08:38:25 PM

ISIS and Rebels are impossible to distinguish, I guess that's intentional on ISIS's part but it's regardless they're both enemies of Syria's state which Russia is allies with. Both ISIS and the Rebels are awful, we're talking about leaders eating the hearts of their fucking dead enemies. Oh but mean old Assad is accused of using chemical weapons when, oh look, it was the Rebels all along.

Russia is not in the wrong here.

Quote from: challengerX on November 25, 2016, 08:32:42 PM

They should. Otherwise we should attack Russia. They're bombing Syrians indiscriminately.

LMAO One crazy dude bites some guys heart (who likely later joined ISIL as soon as they showed up, if he wasn't already Nusra or AQ) and all the Rebels are condemned to death? Who made you judge, jury, and executioner?

Apart from the propaganda you've been eating up, I'm not even talking about ISIL and Rebels. I'm talking about innocent civilians being bombed to shit by Russia who does not give a fuck about collateral damage.

Really? The chemical attacks? That's all you think Assad is guilty of? How much RT have you been watching?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/01/they-were-torturing-to-kill-inside-syrias-death-machine-caesar

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12053991/The-torture-victims-of-Bashar-al-Assads-most-infamous-prison.html

http://uk.businessinsider.com/assad-files-torture-syria-2016-4?r=US&IR=T

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/05/2011515113431187136.html

This guy is one of the most brutal dictators in modern history.

>believing the Caesar photos
You are the one reading propaganda.

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:39:30 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 25, 2016, 08:10:43 PM

Quote from: Ian on November 25, 2016, 07:06:13 PM

is simply out of not wanting to go to war with us, which she would have caused.

lmao

she would at the very least have escalated syria to a full blown proxy war

It's been a proxy war for a while now already

Something she would've escalated.

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 05:44:12 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on November 26, 2016, 06:00:45 AM

Quote from: Ian on November 26, 2016, 05:56:44 AM

I'm very Pro-American because an allied US with Russia will help with the Anglo-Sphere along with the UK and a slumbering Germany/France/Scandinavia that must wake up.

However Obama/Clinton and the current administration is determined to prevent this from occurring at all costs. Including triggering an international military conflict and trying to scapegoat Russia who has been pushed back repeatedly simply for existing. Didn't want Crimea to happen? Maybe NATO shouldn't have gone back on their word of "We wont move missile defenses an inch closer to your border. :^)"

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on November 26, 2016, 05:52:20 AM

Wow, didn't think Ian was one of the "Russia did nothing wrong" crowd

Yes, the answer to a defensive missile grid is to invade a sovereign nation.

If we're going to play that game, Ukraine until a few decades ago had been a part of the Russian empire for several centuries. It's populated by mostly ethnic Russians who speak Russian in addition to Ukrainian. Crimea in particular has been home to the black sea fleet for several centuries, in exchange for closer diplomatic relations with Moscow.

So we have a Russian country annexing an ostensibly Russian territory (notice that the "invasion" never moved beyond Crimea) full of Russians, in order to advance Russian geopolitical interests. How is Russia the bad guy again?

So if Mexico wanted to annex SoCal (a traditionally Spanish territory that was a part of the Mexican Empire) to advance Mexican global economic interests...

The difference is that Crimea seceded prior to Russia annexing it.

Quote from: gats on November 26, 2016, 01:36:14 PM

Quote from: Ian on November 26, 2016, 10:30:14 AM

Quote from: gats on November 26, 2016, 07:09:39 AM

Why can Trump make campaign statements, retract them but Hillary can't?

What reason does she have to retract it? Obama isn't doing anything because it's too late in his term for it to be completed, with how close Hillary was to him, the chances of her NOT doing it was significantly low.

She would retract it because no one wants a war with Russia, especially not over a country most people in the US couldn't locate on a map like Syria.

Quote

And if the US wants a political solution that only wants Assad out, there's two problems here.

1. Why even consider a military strategy such as a no fly zone?
2. What makes the US think the people under Assad will be any better under a different head?

I think you missed one of my points. The US stopped calling for the removal of Assad a while ago in support of the government institutions as a way of preventing another Iraq. The idea is to have the various non-AQ and IS groups find a solution with the government through constitutional amendments so that there is more local power as the Syrian constitution is highly centralised. But Assad refuses so there will be more bloodshed.

Recent State Department press releases say otherwise.

Kerry is sec state and he accepted Russia's stance on Assad staying

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 11:33:30 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 26, 2016, 07:17:40 PM

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 06:00:41 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 26, 2016, 05:51:03 PM

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 05:30:17 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:56:43 PM

Quote from: Ian on November 25, 2016, 08:44:56 PM

Assad did nothing wrong.

The only reason the US intervened is because Russia is involved.

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:42:39 PM

how does that kool aid taste?

yes assad is a wonderful benevolent leader who has never been responsible for anyone's suffering. praise be unto him!

Assad was democratically elected with both a turnout and victory margin several points higher than and US presidential election in history. If Assad's an evil dictator then America has always been one as well.

By they way, how many weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq? Please remind me of how Saddam was on the verge of nuking New York until he was "replaced"

LMAOOOOOOOO

Assad was the only person Syrians could vote for. It's not exactly an election when there's no opponent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Syria
You are quite frankly retarded, you always ignore all the facts that contradict your hallucinations of a world where you're always right. Assad was democratically elected.

But more importantly, why the fuck would he train in britain to be a doctor, only to return to his country to become a genocidal maniac? his brother went into the millitary and were groomed for political positions, but assad was a doctor that treated foreigners in a foreign country, explain that you snake.

Bro the elections were a sham. He and his family control Syria. There is no democracy there, it's a formality so they can deny that they're a dictatorship.

Also, who cares? Why did many of the people in the Iranian regime study in the UK and elsewhere yet oppress and murder their own people? What does this have to do with anything?

Perhaps, but that's quite the conspiracy theory you've got there. Did you consider that people might have seen in him the same things the Philippines say in Duterte? A man that gets things done regardless of how many people kvetch over it?

And his background is important because it completely contradicts the narrative of "he's an evil genocidal maniac", which is the entire justification for "we must invade and overthrow him, and install a democracy with western values, and also start a war with russia in the process". You're falling for atrocity propaganda, I haven't even shown you what a sham the white helmets are yet.

It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true.

And it doesn't matter what his background is. He's not personally conducting the torture. Either way you have a very naive view of all this, and you seem to think because a man trained to be a doctor he can't be a bad person. That simply isn't true.

I'm not saying election rigging isn't plausible, I'm saying you'll have to provide an argument outside of circular reasoning and some evidence as well. You can't say "He's bad because he's a dictator", and then back it up by saying "he's a dictator because he's bad", it's circular and you haven't proven anything, other than you being a conspiracy theorist.

And like I said before and above it does put a serious dent in the narrative of him being a genocidal maniac, why would he all of a sudden decide to start massacring his own people? why would he decide to commit war crimes against his own people? why would he prolong a war in which his people keep dying? The only explanation offered by the press is "he's literally hitler", which they say about everyone, so you're going to do better than that.

And really, you're going to have to come up with an explanation for why the war tarted in the first place, because nobody was calling him evil before the war happened. The mainstream narrative is practically non-existant outside of "muh hitler".

Quote from: Azendac on November 26, 2016, 05:30:17 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:56:43 PM

Quote from: Ian on November 25, 2016, 08:44:56 PM

Assad did nothing wrong.

The only reason the US intervened is because Russia is involved.

Quote from: Azumarill on November 25, 2016, 08:42:39 PM

how does that kool aid taste?

yes assad is a wonderful benevolent leader who has never been responsible for anyone's suffering. praise be unto him!

Assad was democratically elected with both a turnout and victory margin several points higher than and US presidential election in history. If Assad's an evil dictator then America has always been one as well.

By they way, how many weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq? Please remind me of how Saddam was on the verge of nuking New York until he was "replaced"

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Syria
The CIA assesses that the power is in the hands of the President of Syria and his family,

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Assad_family
The al-Assad family (Arabic: عائِلَة الأَسَد‎‎ ʿāʾila al-ʾAsad) has ruled Syria since Hafez al-Assad became President of Syria in 1971 and established an authoritarian government under the control of the Ba'ath Party. After his death in 2000, his son Bashar succeeded him.

That sounds just like a dictatorship, not a democracy.

Now that's an actual argument that I can play with. Challenger, do you see how easy that was? how linking some sources avoids so much bullshit? of course you don't, you're incapable of change like that.

OT. This does show that prior to the 2014 elections the country was in the hands of Assad's family, but what we're talking about is the time during and after the election, and whether or not they were legitimate. Given that the United Nations sent observers to confirm the legitimacy of the election, and according to the UN it was legitimate. Infact, since the United States banned Syrians living in the US from voting in the Syrian embassy, you could argue the election was ever so slightly rigged against Assad.

There's some actual propaganda shit going on in this thread. We talk about a hostile foreign power influencing our election to one degree or another, and certain users have shifted it to it being justified because of Syria, dropping the standard one liners and memes, saying that even asking the questions means you're basically McCarthy, or attacking users directly.

I'm not saying there are Russians on this forum, but man, y'all certainly drank Putin's Kool Aid

There's some actual propaganda shit going on in this thread. We talk about a hostile foreign power influencing our election to one degree or another, and certain users have shifted it to it being justified because of Syria, dropping the standard one liners and memes, saying that even asking the questions means you're basically McCarthy, or attacking users directly.

I'm not saying there are Russians on this forum, but man, y'all certainly drank Putin's Kool Aid

Wrong, we debunk baseless allegations that ebul commies are trying to turn the whole world red, and in the process talk about the wider topic of media demonisation of people opposed to globalist interests. They only get away with lying in everyone's face because gullible people like you believe them without questioning, then relentlessly attack anyone who tells you otherwise.

You have become McCarthy, and you don't even have the cold war to justify it.

To reiterate, you haven't replied in ages, and instead of talking to me or alpha or ian, you just get on your soapbox and try to get away with calling everyone who disagrees with you as being a priori wrong, because muh ebul commies. Back up your fucking claims or get in line behind challenger at the goat farm.

Quote from: Azendac on November 27, 2016, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 27, 2016, 01:53:26 PM

LMAO You know nothing about the Middle East. He's a dictator. That makes him bad. He bombed peaceful protestors. That makes him bad.

Why do you think people were protesting him? Are you insane or just dumb?

"He's bad because I say he's bad, anyone who has an actual opinion is a stupid poopy head"

No Challenger, nobody takes you seriously. Go fuck a goat if you can't handle a conversation.

Just a little pointer, repeatedly calling someone a goat fucker doesn't really help make your case.

We had a fellow a little while ago who kept going down that route in arguments and he eventually had an embolism over something and left.

I know, but I hope you and everyone else can just read my past posts with challenger and see that everytime I try to talk to him, I'll do my best to give him a chance, and I'll keep posting my best arguments and responding to all of his points. And then he'll turn around and lie about what i've said, ignore almost all of the point i've made, and just in general be a horrible person to talk with.

I only resort to insults and memery when the other person gives up trying to talk with me. This thread alone has three pages of me giving chally a chance and him pissing it away almost everytime.

Cadenza rides Putin's cock.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on November 27, 2016, 03:06:20 PM

Cadenza rides Putin's cock.

And this is why i'm quickly remembering why I hate posting under a persistent ID, and using forums in general.

then feel free to fuck off forever =]