Well, people want their bloodline to continue.

Why?

Quote from: Verbatim on July 20, 2015, 11:35:26 AM

Quote from: challengerX on July 20, 2015, 11:34:52 AM

Well, people want their bloodline to continue.

Why?

Why not?

You already know my answer. Why should anyone care about your bloodline--especially your child? You think I care about my bloodline? Do you think I wake up every morning and think to myself, "Oh God, I gotta stop being an anti-natalist, or my bloodline is gonna vanish forever!!" It's meaningless nonsense. It's just ego gratification.

What exactly is so evil about having an ego?

I don't know why people are so hellbent on rejecting their natural traits.

I don't think people are. I am, simply because I really don't like being human all that much. I mean, do I sit there in a corner in the fetal position and bemoan my own humanity day in and day out? No, but when it comes to having these philosophical discussions where I have to think deep about where I am, what I am, and what we're all doing here, it's hard for me not to come to the conclusion--based on what I know, and what I've experienced--that being human kinda sucks, and I'll do everything I can to reject what I perceive to be the shittiest aspects of nature--and big parts of that, in my opinion, are rooted in our ego. Our desire to have a bigger cock than the other guy, metaphorically speaking.

For example--you've conceded in the past that veganism, while perhaps not the "healthiest" of diets (by your definition), is the most ethical diet. And you've stated in the past that the only reason you're not a vegan is basically the same reason everyone else isn't a vegan--meat and dairy products taste too good to give up. And you can correct me if I'm misquoting you there, but I do recall you stating something like that before.

That's ego. That's an example of your own ego driving you away from what is perhaps a more ethical lifestyle choice.

From another angle, I could also say that your ego isn't evil in and of itself, but it still doesn't justify imposing life on another sentient being. Because you're gambling with somebody's welfare. You're gambling with someone's life. As such, you're gonna need to justify it with something a little more than personal gratification.

There's no getting out of suffering.

- dying
- never having been born at all

We can't ask a nonexistent being of it would prefer to exist or not, because it doesn't exist.

which is my entire argument

the fact that we can't is all the more reason not to assume that they'd be okay with it

Quote from: Verbatim on July 20, 2015, 06:00:03 PM

- dying
- never having been born at all

But then you don't have the capacity to feel happiness, which means feeling anything doesn't exist because you don't exist.

happiness really isn't all that great

besides, all the happiness in the world does not outweigh all the misery and suffering in the world
it just doesn't

there could never be anything we could ever do, ever, that could ever justify the suffering
ever

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which is my entire argument

the fact that we can't is all the more reason not to assume that they'd be okay with it

Dude, it's a paradox. The whole premise is nonsensical.

i'm gonna repeat myself

it doesn't matter if they don't exist--that's the entire point
if something doesn't exist, you cannot assume that it would be okay if it did exist

well, you can, but you shouldn't

mfw I agree with Challenger.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 20, 2015, 06:22:39 PM

mfw I agree with Challenger.

Considering that the world is comprised 99.999% of non-anti-natalists, this shouldn't at all shock you.

I never said it was shocking.

This is a bullshit (and irrelevant) argument.

If you can't feel anything, you can't feel happiness or sadness. So it doesn't matter. Because you don't exist.

I'd rather feel nothing at all than suffer with a chance of happiness. Most rational people would, I think.

That's just bullshit.

A happy memory is much more powerful than sad one.

Ever been raped? Or tortured? Or ostracized?

Neither have I. All of my negative memories are intensely more powerful than my positive ones. I don't remember the last time I've ever been actually happy. Probably when I was in Germany, three years ago.

Why do you assume it doesn't want to exist?

For the same reason I don't assume that every woman wants to have sex with me, just because sex feels good.

Just kidding--I don't make any assumptions. It's not that I'm assuming it doesn't want to exist. I'm making no assumptions at all.

Most people are happy existing.

I don't care. Most people are fucking idiots who haven't figured out that there's no god yet.

Quite honestly, I think you have crippling clinical depression and you need treatment.

I probably do, but that's pretty much irrelevant.

Occam's razor doesn't apply here.

It most certainly does.

You're assuming the nonexistent wants to exist.
I'm making no assumptions at all.

Quote from: challengerX on July 20, 2015, 06:21:26 PM

This is a bullshit (and irrelevant) argument.

If you can't feel anything, you can't feel happiness or sadness. So it doesn't matter. Because you don't exist.

I'd rather feel nothing at all than suffer with a chance of happiness. Most rational people would, I think.

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That's just bullshit.

A happy memory is much more powerful than sad one.

Ever been raped? Or tortured? Or ostracized?

Neither have I. All of my negative memories are intensely more powerful than my positive ones. I don't remember the last time I've ever been actually happy. Probably when I was in Germany, three years ago.

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Why do you assume it doesn't want to exist?

For the same reason I don't assume that every woman wants to have sex with me, just because sex feels good.

Just kidding--I don't make any assumptions. It's not that I'm assuming it doesn't want to exist. I'm making no assumptions at all.

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Most people are happy existing.

I don't care. Most people are fucking idiots who haven't figured out that there's no god yet.

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Quite honestly, I think you have crippling clinical depression and you need treatment.

I probably do, but that's pretty much irrelevant.

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Occam's razor doesn't apply here.

It most certainly does.

You're assuming the nonexistent wants to exist.
I'm making no assumptions at all.

Hang on wait.
No no no you're assuming the nonexistent don't want to exist.
Also after reading that I can see your view comes from your psychological state more than anything.

If I could request that a mod sap all of the anti-natalist discussion into a different thread, that would be great.

tfw I would consider myself non-anti-natalist but I agree with Verb.