Quote from: Jester on July 01, 2018, 10:52:53 AM

The question is, did Verb watch the dub or sub

i exclusively watch subs, specifically to avoid the issue of having to deal with faggots telling me i didn't watch the show right because of what language i chose to view it on

so you can't play that card on me

that being said, dubs are generally better anyway

You did watch Yu Yu Hakusho dubbed though, right?

Quote from: Lady on July 01, 2018, 11:53:15 AM

You did watch Yu Yu Hakusho dubbed though, right?

i don't think so, should i?

the only dubs i've been told to watch were the ones for baccano and golden boy, plus anything i wasn't able to find subs for online

not trying to ignore your other post btw, there's just quite a few things to unpack

Maybe it's the nostalgia, but the YYH dub was really good.

And fair enough. I don't expect you to suddenly LIKE JoJo, but I just think 0/10 is a bit much.

I honestly don't know why you feel as strongly as you do about it, and going over your review of it, don't feel like we watched the same thing at all. The only thing that I can really acknowledge among your complaints was the artstyle (even if I 90% disagree with it).

What made no sense about the plot? Part I is very straightforward and simple (negatively so) and Part II is strange and admittedly has so weird retcons and workarounds, but in a template makes perfect sense.

Voice acting is a bit subjective; I enjoyed it most of the time.

What characters did you find so dull and annoying? Outside of Jonathan being a Kenshiro clone and Speedwagon's power of narration, I can't think of anybody particularly dull.

So, there's a couple things you need to keep in mind about how I rate anime. Unlike how I rate everything else, where I try to combine my subjective feelings with the objective value of the art itself (as far as I'm able to perceive it, assuming it even exists), I rate anime pretty much exclusively on personal enjoyment alone.

A 0/10 on my anime scale is not the same thing as a 0/10 on my game scale, for instance. They're both similar in that they both represent an anime or game that has repulsed or offended me on EVERY conceivable level, but the important distinction is that a 0/10 game, in my view, is something that we should collectively hate. Like, as a species. Something like The Guy Game. It's not just hatred—it's moral repugnance. "This game should not exist, and everyone should feel the same way as me"—that's the statement I'm making when I rate a game a 0/10, and it's a statement that I'd want people to take seriously.

A 0/10 anime, on the other hand, is not necessarily something that I think everyone should hate—it's merely an expression of personal hatred (albeit to the maximum extent that my heart will allow). I may or may not care what anyone else thinks about it. I've been told that Bakemonogatari is actually a smart show if you're able to stomach all of its garbage, but I'm not. It is so bereft of anything that I could possibly enjoy, and it almost physically pains me to sit through it. At that point, I don't even care to rate it objectively. Therefore, 0/10.

Not to mention, it's a struggle to be objective when you just fucking don't like or respect the medium in the first place. To make any such attempts would probably be dishonest.

That said, the higher scores I've given are the ones I wish people would take seriously. It's practically an event when I actually enjoy something, and I'd rather have people feel good that I enjoyed something rather than feel bad that I didn't. There's a reason I make whole separate threads for my year-end lists—it's because I'm excited to show off these cool things I found, and would like other people to watch for themselves, so we can have something to talk about on this forum for once. I don't do it to jerk myself off.

Anyway, back to Jojo's before I start rambling. Given the parameters I've laid out, I think my rating of 0/10 is perfectly appropriate and I don't intend on changing my mind—until I see the newer show, but since it looks just as shitty, I may just end up doubling down on that.

Basically, there's nothing about the show that I like, and that's that. The art style really is, without exaggeration, the most hideous thing I've ever seen in all of animation. Perhaps if it were intentionally so, I would almost be okay with it—but knowing that it's supposed to look cool and stylish makes it that much worse, because it's actually a complete fucking nightmare to look at. I'm not even trying to be harsh—I'm genuinely just repulsed by it, to the extent that the highest score I could ever give it is an 8/10, assuming everything else about the show was absolutely perfect. It's that bad to me.

When I criticized the plot for not making sense, I was mostly referring to Part II—but admittedly, that probably wasn't the best phrasing on my part. It was one of the earlier "reviews" I wrote up for this thread, and I remember typing it up pretty hastily (as I do often). What I really meant is that the plot was just stupid and bad, and I do seem to recall it being rife with dumbass plotholes that really don't make any sense, the more I think about it. Shining example: Not destroying the red stone thing because of some hand-wavy prophecy bullshit pulled out the ass at random. I know there's more, but they're not coming to me right now.

I realize that "bizarre" is in the title of the show. But you know what word isn't in the title? Obnoxious. I've seen and enjoyed weird shows—I encourage weirdness. What I don't encourage is characters pulling weapons and other random shit out of nowhere like some dumb kid's show.

The voice acting is intolerable—I don't know how to describe it, but the way all the characters intone almost EVERY line of dialogue just makes my stomach churn. And it gets worse than they start speaking English. Joseph is supposed to be an English speaker, yet they can't even get someone who actually knows how to speak English to say the lines. It's pathetic.

As for characters I find dull, there's Jonathan, Caesar, Lisa Lisa, Speedwagon, Kars, the pillar men, and a few others. Nothing interesting about any of them, and even though Lisa Lisa has the least offensive design I've seen so far, the fact that she's only in the show for one goddamn reason pisses me off.

As for characters I find annoying, literally everyone else. I hate them all, especially Joseph and Dio. Characters are more or less the last bastion—the very last leg your show can stand on if I hate everything else. If I don't like your characters, it's a death knell.

I guess it seems more queer solely because of the expectations behind a 0/10 score, such as that for things that are unwatchable for reasons beyond the allowable/ "broken" shows. The closest tv show I can think of would probably be that one about that Fred youtuber from like a decade ago. Not just bad looking, not just boring, not just inane, but so revolting at its core that nobody should watch it. But this is your system, and specifically the system for looking at your personal enjoyment of this stuff. It's perfectly valid, but still a bit deceptive.

my style here was inspired by robert christgau, who's known for his very terse and dismissive music reviews that use a borderline arbitrary grading scale that doesn't really make sense unless you check the descriptions he has for each grade

perhaps it would be less deceptive if i laid out what each number on my anime scale means to me

10/10: haven't given one, could not honestly tell you what a 10/10 anime would look like for me—it probably requires a style so unlike anime that it could pass off as a western creation, because i think there's something inherently detrimental about the anime aesthetic that pretty much disqualifies the entire industry from ever getting a score like this from me

9/10: i haven't given one of these yet either, but Serial Experiments Lain is currently in the running for my first one ever—basically, it has to be a very smart anime that defies and transcends the medium to the utmost degree, without being absolutely perfect, but just enough

8/10: this anime is pretty great, i'm gonna start having people watch this if they're open to it—most of my problems with anime are not present here, or are lampooned in such a way that tickles my fancy (Grave of the Fireflies, Devilman: Crybaby)

7/10: this is legitimately good, but i wish it were better in some areas—these can be frustrating to watch, because while i want to love them, i'm constantly being reminded of all the little things that hold it back (Neon Genesis Evangelion, Texhnolyze)

6/10: i kinda like this, but i'm not crazy for it—it may be filled with stupid anime-isms that i hate, but i'm actually able to overlook them to some degree because of all the things it does well, or perhaps it simply possesses enough qualities to keep me interested, even if it's not all that great of a show (Cowboy Bebop, Ergo Proxy)

5/10: this could mean a lot of things—mediocrity, mixed thoughts, boredom, averageness—and i often use it as a "safety rating" for shows i might have enjoyed, but i need another rewatch to make sure i actually did, but most of the time, it just means "this wasn't for me, but it didn't offend me on any level; it just kinda bored me" (The Garden of Words, most Ghibli films)

4/10: i didn't like this anime, and i probably dropped it, but it has enough things going for it that i could easily see myself watching the rest of it at some point down the line—it may just not be my cup of tea, or i wasn't in the right mood to watch it at the time or something (Trigun, Legend of the Galactic Heroes)

3/10: a bad anime that i walked out of feeling like i wasted my time overall, but was competent enough in certain areas that i wasn't reaching for a knife, gun, or noose at any point during the viewing (Elfen Lied, Dragon Ball Z)

2/10: a trashy anime that may try to do something smart or interesting, but falls flat on its face due to any number of factors—or a very bad anime that does maybe one thing very well (Bleach, Ghost in the Shell)

1/10: most anime—either shows that i can tell were made in a factory by a soulless, cynical studio that doesn't care for the art, and exists solely to churn out as much shit as possible because they know it makes money, or a show that deeply offends me (Sword Art Online, Kill La Kill)

0/10: just as i described to you; something that i find offensive to the utmost degree, but still a lighter and less extreme take on the usual brand of 0/10 that i typically employ on my other rating scales—these shows simply embody everything that i abhor about the medium (Bakemonogatari, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure)

in order to get a 0/10, it does have to be a popular show, too—because there's no sense in getting so dramatic about a show no one is watching anyway, the lowest score some obscure '90s ecchi piece of shit (or whatever) can get is a 1/10, which is why 0/10s are so rare

fun fact: the only reason i have a 0/10 on my scale to begin with is for mathematical purposes—without a 0, the average between 1 and 10 becomes 5.5, and i don't use decimals, so that's not gonna work out, whereas the average between 0 and 10 is a clean 5

But there's one thing you didn't mention among the things you disliked: the music. Surely that is the one and only quality that you didn't find horrific?

sure, i guess

music so bad that it affects the quality of the show is pretty rare, though—for most shows, i just don't think the music is at all noteworthy, and if it is, it's usually because i enjoyed it—it's almost a binary thing, i either liked it, or i didn't notice

thinking about making this thread again, but for western animation

it will be a lot more positive (especially with regards to disney)

but maybe that's boring and no one cares? idk

part of why i hate anime in general is because western animation is just SO MUCH better, and i thought it might be fun to explore that, even if it's redundant

Do it fgt

thinking about making this thread again, but for western animation

it will be a lot more positive (especially with regards to disney)

but maybe that's boring and no one cares? idk

part of why i hate anime in general is because western animation is just SO MUCH better, and i thought it might be fun to explore that, even if it's redundant

As long as its not just Disney and other big studios

Quote from: Ásgeirr on July 11, 2018, 06:42:35 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 10, 2018, 11:39:09 PM

thinking about making this thread again, but for western animation

it will be a lot more positive (especially with regards to disney)

but maybe that's boring and no one cares? idk

part of why i hate anime in general is because western animation is just SO MUCH better, and i thought it might be fun to explore that, even if it's redundant

As long as its not just Disney and other big studios

Who are the niche animation studios?

I dont even know, animation from europe? If its just the big shit itll be boring because disney and the like are formulaic trash just like most anime

a pleasure is when you enjoy something that you'd also defend

a guilty pleasure is when you enjoy something that you wouldn't

thinking about making this thread again, but for western animation

it will be a lot more positive (especially with regards to disney)

but maybe that's boring and no one cares? idk

part of why i hate anime in general is because western animation is just SO MUCH better, and i thought it might be fun to explore that, even if it's redundant

Rick and Morty and Bojack Horseman.

Fuck memes and just watch them.

MAL has 121 entries between the years 1917 and 1959—and considering most of these animations have probably been lost over time, we can probably chop that down to about 60 to 90

so when i'm done with the '90s, i think i'm actually going to clear up that era next, because it should be easy and quick, and i'll call it the pre-astro boy era

also if you couldn't tell i'm taking a break from this shit, i haven't watched an anime in weeks

Gotta get back on that grind verb sama

The Wind Rises?

6/10

tied with princess mononoke (which i also rewatched and decided i was too harsh with) for my favorite miyazaki

Neat

I found that the subdued fantastical elements and themes led me to enjoy it more than other Miyazaki films.

You've covered every anime I've seen, so I look forward to trying some that you recommend. I watched Ergo Proxy after you rated it, and I'm planning to give Evangelion a try.

what stopped me from giving it a 7/10 is that there were more than a few points that lulled (the beautiful realization of miyazaki's plane fetish notwithstanding, i found myself getting bored with most of the flight sequences), some attempts to make jiro likable were a little heavyhanded, and i also don't necessarily agree with how it ended—but it was still enjoyable overall, so much so that i can definitely see myself liking it more on rewatch

and yeah, make evangelion your first priority—not that i think you'll love it in particular, but it's one of those things i think everyone should watch regardless of their taste

here's my 1998 list, which i finished somewhat recently—i'm sure you've seen #2 already, but definitely not the #1 spot

also maybe try angel's egg and devilman if you still need to watch those (sex and gore warning for the latter)

that all being said, i'm in the midst of wrapping up my dark souls playthrough and beginning a new project, so i'm taking a break from the animemes for a little bit

so my dad comes home from a local flea market with 50~ anime vhs tapes

three of them are evangelion tapes with two episodes each

You're breaking his heart verb

he bought them to his own accord at complete random

anything else worthy of mention? i'd love to find some original dbz vhs tapes

The Devil is a Part Timer....