True Detective Season 2 isn't THAT bad

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 06, 2015, 08:08:11 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · August 06, 2015, 08:08:54 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 06, 2015, 08:10:00 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · August 06, 2015, 08:11:09 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 06, 2015, 09:35:46 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Dopameme · August 06, 2015, 09:38:33 PM

Personally I just can't take Vince Vaughn seriously anymore

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 06, 2015, 09:41:24 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Mordo · August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM

Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 06, 2015, 10:08:51 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

maverick · August 06, 2015, 10:45:13 PM

I agree with what Mordo said but I wouldn't say it's shit. It's coming off an incredible season so I think most people are holding it to that standard. There still is a semblance of quality in every episode and the characters are very compelling. Unfortunately, I am finding it hard to keep interest with its slow pace made worse by it's lack of structure.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM

Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM

Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.

Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 12:40:52 AM

Quote from: Maverick on August 06, 2015, 10:45:13 PM

I agree with what Mordo said but I wouldn't say it's shit. It's coming off an incredible season so I think most people are holding it to that standard. There still is a semblance of quality in every episode and the characters are very compelling. Unfortunately, I am finding it hard to keep interest with its slow pace made worse by it's lack of structure.

I think Season 2 is just as good in Season 1, just in vastly different ways. It was very obvious from the beginning of S2 that this season was gonna be a lot more complex and require the viewer to pay very close attention to detail. I've been entranced the whole time. I guarantee that the season finale is going to blow us all out of the water and be held in similar regard to S1E4. The reckoning is coming.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 07, 2015, 01:25:13 AM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 01:39:11 AM

Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:25:13 AM

just finished episode 7 actually really hyped for the finale

Paul's shootout scene was so fucking well done. Loved Frank's scene with Blake too.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 07, 2015, 01:40:48 AM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 01:45:58 AM

Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:40:48 AM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 01:39:11 AM
Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:25:13 AM
just finished episode 7 actually really hyped for the finale
Paul's shootout scene was so fucking well done. Loved Frank's scene with Blake too.
yeah honestly my hope is restored in Vaughn's acting after that episode

I don't think his acting was ever a problem; people latched onto his campy dialogue without remembering that it's kinda supposed to be that way, because of the "noir homage" thing.

Like, take this scene from The Maltese Falcon-
"Kasper Gutman: You're a close-mouthed man?
Sam Spade: Nah, I like to talk.
Kasper Gutman: Better and better. I distrust a close-mouthed man. He generally picks the wrong time to talk and says the wrong things. Talking's something you can't do judiciously, unless you keep in practice.
[sits back]
Kasper Gutman: Now, sir. We'll talk, if you like. I'll tell you right out, I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk.
Sam Spade: Swell. Will we talk about the black bird?"

That could very well be Ray and Frank speaking with each other. The campy noir stuff just took a lot of people by surprise when I'm sure most of us were expecting similar dialogue to Season 1, where Ruste just kinda said a bunch of weird nihilistic shit and Marty acted as the "straight man" foil.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 07, 2015, 01:53:28 AM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 02:01:21 AM

Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:53:28 AM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 01:45:58 AM
Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:40:48 AM
Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 01:39:11 AM
Quote from: Esoteric on August 07, 2015, 01:25:13 AM
just finished episode 7 actually really hyped for the finale
Paul's shootout scene was so fucking well done. Loved Frank's scene with Blake too.
yeah honestly my hope is restored in Vaughn's acting after that episode
I don't think his acting was ever a problem; people latched onto his campy dialogue without remembering that it's kinda supposed to be that way, because of the "noir homage" thing.

Like, take this scene from The Maltese Falcon-
"Kasper Gutman: You're a close-mouthed man?
Sam Spade: Nah, I like to talk.
Kasper Gutman: Better and better. I distrust a close-mouthed man. He generally picks the wrong time to talk and says the wrong things. Talking's something you can't do judiciously, unless you keep in practice.
[sits back]
Kasper Gutman: Now, sir. We'll talk, if you like. I'll tell you right out, I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk.
Sam Spade: Swell. Will we talk about the black bird?"

That could very well be Ray and Frank speaking with each other. The campy noir stuff just took a lot of people by surprise when I'm sure most of us were expecting similar dialogue to Season 1, where Ruste just kinda said a bunch of weird nihilistic shit and Marty acted as the "straight man" foil.
hm yeah i see what you're saying. I never realized the homages went that deep but i definitely see it now. I'm starting to see this whole "themes" thing you're saying. Season 1 being the southern gothic occult and this season being total noir. Does make me wonder what they'll do for season 3 which i think is going to happen as long as Pizzolatto is good for it.

I think he's signed on at least for 2 more seasons. I'm wondering what it'll be like too. They did a good job keeping the new theme for this year under wraps so I imagine we won't know until the premiere. Really hope Nicky P can keep up the quality. Maybe he'll reconcile with Cary Fukunaga- I am missing his directorship at times, though the cinematography has really picked up in the last few episodes. There were a lot of freeway shots as cutaway shots early on this season that initially bothered me but I'm thinking that might have been on purpose, to really hammer in the "sprawl" theme that Ruste talked about in S1- it's very applicable to this season's complex narrative.

Mordo · August 07, 2015, 05:25:29 AM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM

Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM
Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.
Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.

Oh wow, a "looming" mystery that was alluded to only one episode ago.

I've honestly seen cop "noir" done to death, especially when the setting takes place in LA, the most overly depicted city in tv/cinema. They could've picked literally any urban area/town in America and capitalize on the occultism shit that made everyone so invested in the first season, but no, they played it as safe as they possibly could.

challengerX · August 07, 2015, 06:15:11 AM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Dopameme · August 07, 2015, 07:58:36 AM

Quote from: challengerX on August 07, 2015, 06:15:11 AM

Man this show sounds autistic as shit.

you think everything and everyone is autistic tho

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 10:47:29 AM

Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 05:25:29 AM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM
Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.
Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.
Oh wow, a "looming" mystery that was alluded to only one episode ago.

I've honestly seen cop "noir" done to death, especially when the setting takes place in LA, the most overly depicted city in tv/cinema. They could've picked literally any urban area/town in America and capitalize on the occultism shit that made everyone so invested in the first season, but no, they played it as safe as they possibly could.

One episode ago? Jeez dude you really have not been paying attention.

challengerX · August 07, 2015, 11:10:17 AM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Mordo · August 07, 2015, 12:24:07 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 10:47:29 AM

Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM
Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.
Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.
Oh wow, a "looming" mystery that was alluded to only one episode ago.

I've honestly seen cop "noir" done to death, especially when the setting takes place in LA, the most overly depicted city in tv/cinema. They could've picked literally any urban area/town in America and capitalize on the occultism shit that made everyone so invested in the first season, but no, they played it as safe as they possibly could.
One episode ago? Jeez dude you really have not been paying attention.

The sex party was really the first hint we got there was some kind of hippie conspiracy going on, unless you want to count the first episode with Bezzirides dad.

Azumarill · August 07, 2015, 12:45:28 PM

Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 12:24:07 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM
Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.
Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.
Oh wow, a "looming" mystery that was alluded to only one episode ago.

I've honestly seen cop "noir" done to death, especially when the setting takes place in LA, the most overly depicted city in tv/cinema. They could've picked literally any urban area/town in America and capitalize on the occultism shit that made everyone so invested in the first season, but no, they played it as safe as they possibly could.
One episode ago? Jeez dude you really have not been paying attention.
The sex party was really the first hint we got there was some kind of hippie conspiracy going on, unless you want to count the first episode with Bezzirides dad.

How about that picture connecting the Chessanis and Pitlor with Big Daddy B? Pitlor's comment about the "traditions of the Chessani patriarchs" comes to mind- he seemed genuine when he said that he couldn't help Mrs Chessani. Something very fucked up clearly happened. How about all of the odd bird iconography? Antigone goes by Ani- an ani looks like this.

There was a picture of a black bird similar to an ani in Pitlor's office. Another picture of a bird in the motel room Antigone and Ray stay in after the incident at the mansion. Of course, there's the Birdman from episode 2. And then, I'm fairly certain there was a hippogriff mask hanging on the wall in the state park cabin where that prost was murdered. It was definitely some sort of animal mask- I'll have to check to be sure. It looks like it could be a pig with a cigar- something Ani saw at the party while she was hallucinating. The animal iconography is very strong throughout the season though. Possibly omens of death- it would fit well with the tragedy of Antigone's character, especially.

And then, there's Big Daddy B's comment about Ray's aura. The strong David Lynch-inspired scenes at the Black Rose bar lend themselves to a certain spirituality as well.

There's a strong sense of surrealism throughout Season 2. Does it exist in the same nature as the Lovecraftian themes from Season 1? No, but it's definitely still there, and it fits very well with the neo-noir theme.

Mordo · August 07, 2015, 04:26:31 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:45:28 PM

Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 12:24:07 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 07, 2015, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: Azumarill on August 07, 2015, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: career ender on August 06, 2015, 10:07:31 PM
Why they extracted all the occult shit that made the first season interesting I will never know.

It's basically just a generic Sunday afternoon cop show now. All these names get tossed about and I have no idea who or what they're referring to because I literally care for no one besides Velcoro.

There's no chemistry between the characters, and there's barely any time to develop any emotional connection with them by juggling four main leads over the course of a 50 minute episode.

Yes, it is shit. I didn't expect them to top season 1 but I also didn't expect them to drop the fucking ball on quality either.
Season 1 was a Southern Gothic mystery. The occult stuff fit with that theme.

Season 2 is a love letter to film noir. Of course the occult stuff was gonna be toned down- but wait, what's this? We still have some looming mystery regarding hippie spirituality.
Oh wow, a "looming" mystery that was alluded to only one episode ago.

I've honestly seen cop "noir" done to death, especially when the setting takes place in LA, the most overly depicted city in tv/cinema. They could've picked literally any urban area/town in America and capitalize on the occultism shit that made everyone so invested in the first season, but no, they played it as safe as they possibly could.
One episode ago? Jeez dude you really have not been paying attention.
The sex party was really the first hint we got there was some kind of hippie conspiracy going on, unless you want to count the first episode with Bezzirides dad.
How about that picture connecting the Chessanis and Pitlor with Big Daddy B? Pitlor's comment about the "traditions of the Chessani patriarchs" comes to mind- he seemed genuine when he said that he couldn't help Mrs Chessani. Something very fucked up clearly happened. How about all of the odd bird iconography? Antigone goes by Ani- an ani looks like this.

There was a picture of a black bird similar to an ani in Pitlor's office. Another picture of a bird in the motel room Antigone and Ray stay in after the incident at the mansion. Of course, there's the Birdman from episode 2. And then, I'm fairly certain there was a hippogriff mask hanging on the wall in the state park cabin where that prost was murdered. It was definitely some sort of animal mask- I'll have to check to be sure. It looks like it could be a pig with a cigar- something Ani saw at the party while she was hallucinating. The animal iconography is very strong throughout the season though. Possibly omens of death- it would fit well with the tragedy of Antigone's character, especially.

And then, there's Big Daddy B's comment about Ray's aura. The strong David Lynch-inspired scenes at the Black Rose bar lend themselves to a certain spirituality as well.

There's a strong sense of surrealism throughout Season 2. Does it exist in the same nature as the Lovecraftian themes from Season 1? No, but it's definitely still there, and it fits very well with the neo-noir theme.

Iconography and symbolism doesn't constitute good writing. S2 may well have a lot of hidden messages but that doesn't compensate for the lacklustre characters and meandering plot that I really don't have any patience for.

Perhaps I jumped the gun. In terms of a cop drama, it's serviceable. In terms of a True Detective season, it's pretty shitty.